Supporting Civil Rights for Atheists and the Separation of Church and State
11
Jan
2011
Vandalized God Billboard
The God-is Billboard that replaced the "You KNOW its a MYTH" billboard at the outside of the Lincoln Tunnel has been vandalized.
Let me be clear: American Atheists does NOT support or condone any activity that results in vandalized property, either openly or secretly. We do not giggle about this under our breath or behind closed doors, because it's not funny, it's not clever, and it's not cool.
Freedom goes both ways. If we are to defend our right to free expression, we must do the same for others, even when they disagree.
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Comments
Since we can't excommunicate people... ;)
One of the criticism we launch at the liberal of the religious is their silence when it comes to the destructive behavior of their Fundamentalist counterparts. The silent majority of Muslims that remain silent after a terrorist attack. The silent majority of Christians that remain silent when Fred Phelps continues to be a piece of half-digested corn in a pile of poo. The silent majority of Hindus when their Fundamentalists set fire to an Islamic commuter train or destroy a McDonalds because they thought beef extract was in the fries.
When an atheist does something bad, I think we should condemn them publicly.
Running a local group I have had the displeasure of kicking people out of the group for disruptive behavior and illegal behavior. One girl was harassing our members and stalking another one outside of the group and she had to be removed. Another one was verbally abusive to other members and had to be removed. It happens. It sucks when it happens, but it does. It sucks even worse being the person that has to confront that person and tell them they have to leave and are not welcome.
Every group has its cranks and kooks and we're not exempt. Determining when to verbally smack them for their behavior or ban them from a group will depend entirely on how disruptive they are to the group as a whole. We have a crank here locally who we have let stay because while he is seriously deranged, he is not really disruptive to the cohesiveness of the group and most people laugh him off and a few actually try to engage him in debate.
I will add a personal note here that when we banned on of those disruptive members, threats were made against the group and individuals and for a while a few of us with conceal & carry permits made sure we used those permits when attending meetings until things calmed down. It was a very nervous time for many.
Excellent reply. thanks.
I know that after you left Mobile, and left the Mobile Atheists (later MAFTA) in my hands, we eventually had problem members that eventually led to the group dissolving. As the "Director," I didn't know how to deal with them. They were the militant "god doesn't exist" in your face type. They made everyone else uncomfortable and everyone just stopped coming. I wish I knew how to handle the situation. If I were to do it all over again, I could handle it and remove them, but at the time I didn't.
Fred: the "in your face" atheists are the ones making headway. They are the last people you should be kicking out of groups. There is room for all points of view on methodology, because all methods are needed. The way to handle the situation is to moderate the dialogue if you can, or just let them debate it out themselves. Debate should always be friendly and when it starts to get aggressive or nasty, then step in and ask everyone to take it down a notch or take a break and come back.
I almost can't help but giggle, because the funny thing about the graffiti is that not even Atheists agree with that. We'd have to believe God existed to make the claim he died XD
Whoever did this is not an Atheist, so if anyone's in an interview and has this brought up should make and effort to clarify that. An Atheist would have written " 'nt Real " after the "is" =P
I must admit that I got a good laugh out of it, but part of it was just the shock of seeing a Christian billboard vandalized. I just assume that Christians will vandalize atheist billboards, since their core beliefs are being brought into question, but why would atheists vandalize a Christian billboard, maybe out of frustration?
I took "God is Dead" as more of a metaphor, meaning that god or the idea of god is no longer needed by humanity. In that sense, god is dead to me.
About four years ago a Catholic church was vandalized in New York. The priest and bishop blamed atheists for the vandalism and the press ran with that.
A few weeks later the vandals were caught: Baptist teenagers from a Baptist church youth group. Did the priest or bishop apologize to the atheists? Nope. Did the press retract their story and run a new one denouncing the accusation against atheists and print who the real culprit was? Nope. So in everyone's mind that read that first story and didn't hear about the follow-up... the atheists did it.
That is why it was important for us to speak out against this vandalism, and we did so before any news organization covered it.
You're giggling because of the silliness of the graffiti and not because the sign was vandalized. I think there's a difference there.
I scoff at the act of vandalizing someone's property. It's abhorrent and lets me know that the moron responsible for it has no regard for other people or their property and is likely a self-centered and selfish SOB. But I can see the humor in the idiocy of the vandalism itself.
Blair, I agree that it is vandalism, but I think it is a different kind of vandalism. Billboards are temporary messages specifically created to send a direct message. They are not permanent structures like a church or any other kind of building. I was not upset when vandals added "under god" to the NC atheist's billboard that said, "One Nation Indivisible," mainly since it actually added to the message. That is what actually happened. "Under God" was deliberately and unconstitutionaly added to the pledge of allegiance.
I would be more upset if someone blacked out the message, but adding commentary does not upset me as much. I know this is a slippery slope though. These are private billboards, and groups have paid good money for them. so they should not be altered. I guess I am just trying to rationalize my laughter.
That billboard cost $20,000. That amount alone makes the vandalism not a petty crime. Destruction or defacement of property is wrong on all occasions.
I understand what you're saying about the "under god" being added after the fact actually proved your point in the case, but such is not the case with this vandalism.
I'm glad to see you are condemning this vandalism, it is juvenile at best and intolerant on the face of it. It is never OK to interfere with anyone's freedoms, no matter their religion or sexual orientation.
Agreed, what never was, can't be dead.
Whoever it was i am sure the devil made them do it!
Yes, we are aware of that.
It's a Nietzsche quote, folks.
Good catch Tokzic. Time magazine also references Nietzche's quote when they ask, "Is God Dead? on their 1966 cover. They ponder whether god is even necessary in a secular society. But you are right, the original quote is from Nietzsche.
I'm glad to see the vandalism denounced here. It's wrong. Still, irony amuses me and it is ironic. My own personal failing.
OT: Wish someone would post a picture of Dave's face when O'Reilly started his tide talk. LMFAO
Discussion question: how should atheist organizations deal with destructive, dangerous, obnoxious, or downright crazy people who want to join? Expulsion? Shunning? How do churches deal with it?
If the vandal had any sense, he would have put "NOT REAL"
I still say it's a possible reference to Schrödinger. One of the things already there was "Alive" therefore the billboard now states that God is both Alive and Dead. And since we can't observe god to collapse the waveforms, it will stay that way ;-)
I'm sure glad it wasn't my $20,000 that got "vandalized" by a nihilist, lol. Is it really vandalism here, or did the Catholic Church commit billboard fraud?
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