Supporting Civil Rights for Atheists and the Separation of Church and State

Sep

2011

Taking The Gloves Off...

Author: admin / admin's blog

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When Diplomacy Fails, It's Time To Fight Using The Law
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back." - Jean Luc Picard

"...first you've got to get mad. You've got to say, 'I'm a HUMAN BEING, God damn it! My life has VALUE!' I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell, 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!'"- Howard Beale

The dictionary defines intolerance as lack of toleration, an unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect. Sometimes, though, it becomes quite necessary. Intolerance toward beliefs and doctrines that serve only to promote hatred, bigotry and discrimination should be lauded, as should extremist points of view toward the eradication of these beliefs and doctrines.

It should come as no surprise that the individuals who abide by fundamentalist Christian and radical Islamic doctrines would be the first to cry out that they are being persecuted when their dangerous, damaging and disingenuous beliefs come under attack. Most of these people lack the maturity and intelligence to act in a socially acceptable manner. Many of them are sociopaths and quite a good number of them are psychopaths. All of them are clearly delusional.

What should come as a surprise is just how many people stand in their court, offering support. There are frequent cries of “foul” when the more polemic amongst the atheist community make negative sweeping, generalized statements about fundamental Christianity and radical Islam. There are demands made for tolerance and respect for the religious beliefs of all people and that nobody has a right to condemn someone based solely on their religion. Those who spout these cries of foul and who call for tolerance toward these two very dangerous ideologies are speaking from ignorance.

Bigotry, discrimination, hatred, coercion, terrorism, slavery, misogyny and everything else that is part and parcel of fundamental Christianity and radical Islam should not be tolerated, and when any of these rear their ugly heads outside of the context of religion they are not. There are laws in the United States and many other nations that protect people from these things because they have been proven detrimental to societies. Add God into the picture and all of a sudden the perpetrator becomes the victim because religion seems to change the context of everything.

Hold up a Westboro Baptist Church style sign without being connected to a religion and you will likely be arrested, tried and convicted of a hate crime. Add God and it becomes an issue of tolerating a religious belief. Hold up a sign calling for the beating, torture or death of someone and you will likely be charged with any one of several crimes. Add God and it again becomes an issue of tolerating a religious belief.

There are even atheists who state that everyone should be tolerant of all individuals right to believe or disbelieve as they see fit. That we should all coexist. Along with these statements come the accusation that many within the Atheist movement are “just as bad” as the fundamentalist Christians and radical Muslims.

The fact is that fundamentalist Christians and radical Muslims are not interested in coexisting or getting along. They have no desire for peace. They do not want to sit down with us in diplomatic efforts to iron out our differences and come to an agreement on developing an integrated society.

They want us to die.

Their interpretation of the Bible and Koran are such that there is no other course of action but to kill the infidel, and if anyone believes otherwise they are only fooling themselves. It is not just in the best interests of atheists to be intolerant of fundamental Christianity and radical Islam, but it is also in the best interest of mainstream believers within these faiths, as well. Moderates and even Progressives who stand in support of extremists just because there is a claim to the same deity are not doing themselves any favors. Fundamental Christians make all Christians look bad and radical Muslims make all Muslims look bad.

The growing ranks of fundamental Christians and radical Muslims should be of concern to everyone who is not part of these two groups. Everyone. Again, bigotry, discrimination, hatred, coercion, terrorism, slavery, misogyny and everything else that is part and parcel of fundamental Christianity and radical Islam should not be tolerated and anyone who agrees with this needs to adopt extremist points of view that includes the intolerance of their very existence. The only reason these groups exist is because they are allowed to, and we, as a society, are allowing them to.

The atheist community gets angry when we read about the antics of idiotic, ignorant and imbicillic politicians and celebrities like Palin, Bachmann, Beck, Limbaugh, Pawlenty and Santorum. We post our thoughts on our social networks and our blogs and try to expose these creeps for exactly what they are. Most of the GOP, just about all of the Tea Party movement and even some Democrats and Independents should be ashamed of themselves for going out in public wearing the equivalent of an intellectual diaper. We criticize them for their rejection of science in favor of their fairy tales and write our letters and support our advocate organizations when our legal rights are abrogated.

But the underbelly of fundamentalist Christianity and radical Islam does not operate in the legal system. They don’t respond to lawsuits, letters, amicus briefs or other grass-roots campaigns and they must, must, must be eradicated. As long as they are allowed to exist, we will continue to be inundated with accounts of buses, buildings, markets and abortion clinics being blown up, rape victims being murdered for adultery, wives being beaten (sometimes to death), airplanes being flown into buildings, people being tortured and sometimes beheaded for blasphemy, people being burned for witchcraft and sorcery and all the other horrific, inhumane and insane practices that are part of fundamental Christianity and Radical Islam.

If we don’t take a stand and, as a society, insist that these doctrines and beliefs are treated just the same as they would be if religion were not part of the equation, we will become extinct not due to natural selection, but at the hands of those who believe that the supernatural has made the selection.

----

Al Stefanelli - Georgia State Director, American Atheists, Inc.

PS: To those of you who are coming here from The Blaze, which has accused me of calling for the eradication of living people, take note that I called for the eradication of the doctrines that are espoused by the fundamentalists and radical extremists. Also note that your death threats are being forwarded to the FBI. - Al

Comments

Anonymous (not verified) / Sun, 09/18/2011 - 16:24

Raymond
I appreciate the reply and the chance to explain my comment, but let me start here.
What you heard concerning God causing natural disasters, came from only one politician, and she said it as a joke to people at a rally. It's true the news media tried to make a big deal out of it, which is why you heard a lot about it.

My comment, concerning "who cares?" was in reply to Mr. Stefanelli who, in his article, said "The atheist community gets angry when we read about the antics of idiotic, ignorant and imbicillic(sic) politicians and celebrities..." again I ask, who cares, what are they going to do?
The answer is NOTHING.
Rather then tell us about their anger, Mr. Stefanelli should have stated their concerns, that I would care about.
When you call people names, because you disagree, and then claim your angry because of them, no one cares, at least not me.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 09/19/2011 - 02:40

My point jcmg, as you are well aware; is the hypocracy of creating a list of atheists and tallying up the death toll from said list while all the while turning a blind eye to the dastardly deeds the very one who the believer worships...... Your so called God. I did not even add to the list all of the popes, bishops, priests and other godly and christian supporters who have amassed a significant death toll in the past 2000+ yrs in the effort to spread the " good news" in Jesus' name. Check your own religious history before casting the first stone in the how many people did your belief system kill debate. I believe the religious tract would lose this debate hands down.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 09/19/2011 - 14:27

Buckeyenonbeliever
I never casted any stone, let alone the first in the debate you mention.
All I did, was say your comments were strange, coming from an atheist.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:36

Yes! Let's eradicate religion. It always worked out so well in the past in other societies. Why they all turned into Utopias almost overnight. When will these backwards bible thumpers learn? Why that's not a human life...it's just a clump of cells, like a tumor. Wait...what did you just say? Shut up! That's why, You idiot Biologists.

Yeah, I know it doesn't make sense, but there ya go.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 09/19/2011 - 18:53

"There is some serious reading comprehension fail here"

The IRONY..it BURNS! No lil' fella...you failed to comprehend that I was mocking this column. It is worthy of ridicule and nothing more. I am not a religious person myself, but if you cannot this late in your life reconize that the Judeo Christian belief system has been the lynchpin in forming the most successful societies in our planet's existence ;I am not even going to bother trying to convince you. What religion is prevalent in North Korea again? The former Soviet Union? Hmmm...how about China? I know they love them some religion over there...I just can't put my finger on it at the moment. Such advanced cultures they have over there by golly. What models they are for the rest of us backward savages to emulate. The Red Cross should amble over there post haste and start taking notes!

“Hunger must be eradicated!”

Yeah...you are a staunch believer in eradicating ANY semblance of hunger.

Dismissed.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 09/19/2011 - 20:40

Lentastic
They don't fail to comprehend, they choose not to.
Your anger is understandable but I suggest you treat smugness with a tempered response, let them be the angry ones. It won't take long, the hatred will emerge, then you have every right to push their smug face into it.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 07:24

Not anger my friend. I am just having a little fun at their expense. I love each and every one of them... I have to ; ).

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 09/19/2011 - 22:33

you failed to comprehend that I was mocking this column.

My money's on you failing to take the entire thing in context. You should read something from beginning to end, & not let your knees jerk in-between.

I am not a religious person myself, but if you cannot this late in your life reconize that the Judeo Christian belief system has been the lynchpin in forming the most successful societies in our planet’s existence

Oh, this hoary old chestnut. The US is founded on secular values: if your alleged 'belief system' had such a hand in it all, there wouldn't be any tolerance for other religions. What other 'successful societies' would you be talking about? The Vatican? A large part of that population is pedophiliac.

What religion is prevalent in North Korea again? The former Soviet Union? Hmmm…how about China?

Europe is predominantly secular now. Israel is well over the 50% margin in non-believers. If you think for 2 seconds that religion moralizes people, you need to grow up.
A lack of belief in the supernatural doesn't lead people off to utter hedonism & reckless abandon: otherwise the prisons would be shot thru w/atheists everywhere.
& the Mafia is predominantly Catholic too.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 07:06

"The US is founded on secular values"

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator [see that word there?-ed] with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men.."

Yup, real secular there. It's not like the founders kept extensive written records pertaining to their religious beliefs or anything. (Jefferson bible, what the hell is that?) Yeah..I know, many of them were Deists (like me!) Same difference: Faith. They all had faith in a divine , loving creator.

"If you think for 2 seconds that religion moralizes people, you need to grow up."

Really? So I guess I should just discount what I have experienced throughout my life as mere fantasies of my over active imagination? So time after time when I have seen former drug addicts, criminals and prostitute’s lives being turned completely around after reading and embracing the Gospels; I should just ignore it? When I am in a crime infested neighborhood and there's a guy risking his life to hand out food ,clothing, blankets and kindness to malnourished, mentally ill people shivering on park benches; I should tell him to take his primitive beliefs and go shove 'em? Yeah, when I was young, orphaned and alone there were scores of g0dless heathens falling over themselves trying to help me. Yep. I should be ashamed of myself for mocking you generous folk.

FWIW. If you are a child rapist, you are not Catholic,despite what you call yourself ( the same doesn't apply to Islam, they condone it)This rule also applies to people who are engaged in murder and extortion. I could call myself 'The King of Siam' but that doesn't make it so; now does it.

Have a nice day and remember...G0d loves you!

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 07:27

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator

Yes that is fairly...ambiguous. So it's whatever 'creator' they believe in?

They all had faith in a divine , loving creator.

They weren't infallible, were they? They thought water was bad for people to drink, so they stayed 3 sheets to the wind most of the time.

I guess I should just discount what I have experienced throughout my life as mere fantasies of my over active imagination?

You should take everything w/a grain of salt.

So time after time when I have seen former drug addicts, criminals and prostitute’s lives being turned completely around after reading and embracing the Gospels; I should just ignore it?

There are countless millions of stories equivalent to this, subtracting the bible. People need an object to focus on. The religious stories are more prevalent because it's ubiquitous.
People just need an excuse, is all.

When I am in a crime infested neighborhood and there’s a guy risking his life to hand out food ,clothing, blankets and kindness to malnourished, mentally ill people shivering on park benches;

He's doing some good: but religion is a lie, & he's trying to tally up some brownie points for the afterlife.

Yeah, when I was young, orphaned and alone there were scores of g0dless heathens falling over themselves trying to help me.

The problem w/being in the majority, is the numbers. The good & bad statistics are on the same side. There are secular outreaches & programs, but when you were a child, we were leper outcast unclean.

FWIW. If you are a child rapist, you are not Catholic

Yeah yeah - you folks always seem to have some excuse, never admitting that any of your own are capable of wrong-doing. Never seems to count, does it? Nice. Wash your hands, & all that.

( the same doesn’t apply to Islam, they condone it)

Actually, that got banned in the 19th CE.

I could call myself ‘The King of Siam’ but that doesn’t make it so; now does it.

Kings aren't elected.

Have a nice day and remember…G0d loves you!

Who? Some creepy old invisible perv who watches everything I do? Ya think he'd be off running the universe.
(what an ego!)

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 09:56

"Yes that is fairly…ambiguous. So it’s whatever ‘creator’ they believe in"

You said our founding was secular in nature. It clearly wasn't. The whole point of that statement was that those rights are "natural rights". Bequeathed by the almighty. No one can take them away. By law or force.

"They weren’t infallible, were they? They thought water was bad for people to drink, so they stayed 3 sheets to the wind most of the time."

Water was bad for you, as in deadly. They brewed beer to make water sterile. Of course, a highly educated person like yourself already knew that, I'm sure.

"There are countless millions of stories equivalent to this, subtracting the bible. People need an object to focus on. The religious stories are more prevalent because it’s ubiquitous.
People just need an excuse, is all."

It works, that's all that matters. I am a results oriented kinda guy.

"He’s doing some good: but religion is a lie, & he’s trying to tally up some brownie points for the afterlife."

Good thing you aren't subscribing to stereo types and making Atheists look like jaded, unhappy cynics.

"Yeah yeah – you folks always seem to have some excuse, never admitting that any of your own are capable of wrong-doing. Never seems to count, does it? Nice. Wash your hands, & all that."

First, I am not Catholic. I do not believe in any written word as being divine. The Book of the Five Rings, maybe. Since Pedophiles always gravitate to where they have access to children I guess you could paint social workers, gym teachers, babysitters, Etc. with the same broad brush , eh?

"Actually, that got banned in the 19th CE."

Oh really? You might want to inform Amnesty International, the UN and the Muslims themselves of that fact. I am sure it will come as quite a relief to all the prepubescent girls who are being sold off by their fathers and used for sex by grown men.

"Who? Some creepy old invisible perv who watches everything I do? Ya think he’d be off running the universe.
(what an ego!)"

Hmm...Where to start? When did I say G0d was watching you? And who said anything about age or gender? Besides, by incorporating your logic; I guess a parent who watches over their child is some kind of "creepy perv"?

Shine on , you crazy diamond.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 11:21

You said our founding was secular in nature. It clearly wasn’t. The whole point of that statement was that those rights are “natural rights”. Bequeathed by the almighty. No one can take them away. By law or force.

Strange how the Treaty of Tripoli says otherwise. You also may want to look up the word 'secular' - because too many people get the definition wrong.

Good thing you aren’t subscribing to stereo types and making Atheists look like jaded, unhappy cynics.

I dunno who told you you were good @ sarcasm, because clearly you're not.

First, I am not Catholic.

It was an example

I do not believe in any written word as being divine.

All that blatting about the DoC saying 'creator' sure makes it sound otherwise.

The Book of the Five Rings, maybe.

Musashi? Don't think so.

Since Pedophiles always gravitate to where they have access to children I guess you could paint social workers, gym teachers, babysitters, Etc. with the same broad brush , eh?

What do the numbers say? Catholic priests are notorious for this for a reason. I meant priests, not ALL catholics. Talk about a broad brush.

I am sure it will come as quite a relief to all the prepubescent girls who are being sold off by their fathers and used for sex by grown men.

Sorry, I thought you meant pederasty. My bad.

When did I say G0d was watching you?

Well, no, since he doesn't exist anyways.

And who said anything about age or gender?

It's inferred, but it's a make-believe character, so you can do as you please.

Besides, by incorporating your logic; I guess a parent who watches over their child is some kind of “creepy perv”?

So...you DO admit you think there's some invisible sky daddy who watches over us while we eat, sleep, have BM's, & have sex?
How is that NOT creepy, exactly?

Shine on , you crazy diamond.

I don't think you've earned the right to quote PF.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 13:07

All right, ONE more lesson..then it's off to the shame closet for you.

“Strange how the Treaty of Tripoli says otherwise. “

Yeah..I hear people quoting and arguing about The Treaty of Tripoli ALL the time.

“You also may want to look up the word ‘secular’ – because too many people get the definition wrong”

I will..a little later. I am still trying to wrap my head around “hoary”.

“All that blatting about the DoC saying ‘creator’ sure makes it sound otherwise.”

You can believe in a creator without the aid of fairytale books. If I'm going to base my life around a work of fiction, it would be 'Papillon'. Way more insightful and entertaining.

“Musashi? Don’t think so”

Try actually reading him sometime. Google and Wiki are no substitute. His words were prophetic.

“What do the numbers say?”

The numbers say that child molesters are rampant in every profession that allows them access to children. Preferably vulnerable ones. You focus on clergy because they fit your myopic and bigoted viewpoint.

“I dunno who told you you were good @ sarcasm, because clearly you’re not”

You know..my aluminum helmet protects my brain from alien thought control beams. It is useless at protecting my feelings...

“ Catholic priests are notorious for this for a reason. I meant priests, not ALL catholics. Talk about a broad brush.”

Scroll back up to your last post:

“Yeah yeah – you folks always seem to have some excuse, never admitting that any of your own are capable of wrong-doing. Never seems to count, does it? Nice. Wash your hands, & all that.”

So you thought I was a priest? I think you are little confused.

“Sorry, I thought you meant pederasty. My bad”

Wait a sec...let me go look up 'pederasty'. Ohh....yeah, Muslims are big on that too. It should take you all of about 15 seconds to research it. Try Pushtuns+dancing boys. The Taliban commanders have to regularly castigate their soldiers for sodomizing the children of the villages they “liberate”. Not a real good way to gain favor with the locals. With the Pushtuns, women are strictly fer breeden'. Boys are for lovin' . Everyone--well except for you--knows that.

“So…you DO admit you think there’s some invisible sky daddy who watches over us while we eat, sleep, have BM’s, & have sex?
How is that NOT creepy, exactly?”

I think a portion of our conversation is going on just in your head..I can't hear that part, so let's just stick to what I wrote.

“I don’t think you’ve earned the right to quote PF”

Damned First Amendment...it makes me so mad!

..We don't need no..education....

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 09/20/2011 - 18:13

All right, ONE more lesson..then it’s off to the shame closet for you.

Wow - talk about inflated ego.

Yeah..I hear people quoting and arguing about The Treaty of Tripoli ALL the time.

Is that sarcasm? You really aren't good @ it. Look up article 11 while you're at it.

I will..a little later. I am still trying to wrap my head around “hoary”.

Take your time. I understand.

You can believe in a creator without the aid of fairytale books.

Interesting how you squirmed around the point.

If I’m going to base my life around a work of fiction, it would be ‘Papillon’.

HAH! I like.

Try actually reading him sometime. Google and Wiki are no substitute. His words were prophetic.

I own 2 hard copies, but thanks.

The numbers say that child molesters are rampant in every profession that allows them access to children. Preferably vulnerable ones. You focus on clergy because they fit your myopic and bigoted viewpoint.

1st, 'stranger danger' is bullshit (or so sayeth Penn & Teller). 2nd, RC priests get all the press on it because
A. they're supposedly more 'moral', &
B. you can't argue w/the numbers.

You know..my aluminum helmet protects my brain from alien thought control beams. It is useless at protecting my feelings…

Left field.

Scroll back up to your last post:

I'm aware of what I said, & I corrected my error.

So you thought I was a priest? I think you are little confused.

I think the confusion's on your part. I wasn't talking about you personally on that point.

Wait a sec…let me go look up ‘pederasty’. Ohh….yeah, Muslims are big on that too. It should take you all of about 15 seconds to research it. Try Pushtuns+dancing boys. The Taliban commanders have to regularly castigate their soldiers for sodomizing the children of the villages they “liberate”. Not a real good way to gain favor with the locals. With the Pushtuns, women are strictly fer breeden’. Boys are for lovin’ . Everyone–well except for you–knows that.

Islam banned pederasty in the 19th CE. As we all know, banning something doesn't eradicate it. Like most religions, it's a rape culture.

I think a portion of our conversation is going on just in your head..I can’t hear that part, so let’s just stick to what I wrote.

No, you're being ambiguous - I'm trying to suss you out.

Damned First Amendment…it makes me so mad!

Yeah - same 1 that said everyone gets to worship in their own way. Definitely not Christian.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 11:43

“Wow – talk about inflated ego.”

I was being facetious, but you are right. I don't think I am real sharp or anything, it comes from me being physically attractive and charming. I try to be humble , but hey- I am only human.

“I own 2 hard copies, but thanks.”

Wow. Two. I am a huge fan of his, so if you have a signed copy , I will pay you TOP dollar for it.

“1st, ‘stranger danger’ is bullshit (or so sayeth Penn & Teller). 2nd, RC priests get all the press on it because
A. they’re supposedly more ‘moral’, &
B. you can’t argue w/the numbers.”

1st. I don't watch TV, but I know about P&T; they do good work. 2nd, Priests molest children, I get it, everyone get's it. They cover it up and enable it.

A. again, everyone knows this.

B. If you have constructive ideas on how to prevent this( that actually could be implemented;) I'm all ears.

“Left field.”

It was a shot at Scientology and The Nation of Islam. They are big on aliens. You would have to be physic to have gotten it. You aren't physic ,are you?!

“Islam banned pederasty in the 19th CE. As we all know, banning something doesn’t eradicate it.

They are still butchering each other over who was Muhammad's successor from 1300 years ago. They can't agree on anything besides Jews have to be eradicated and women need a boot on their neck at all times.

“Like most religions, it’s a rape culture.”

Okay, Left field. I can understand Islam being a rape culture, the Koran makes that pretty clear, but Buddhism, Catholicism, Judaism and Christianity? That's a stretch. How can admonishing premarital sex, debauchery, pornography, abortion, and objectifying women be encouraging rape?

Well I guess if you go far enough back in the past you could make a cogent argument about this. We live in the present though.

“No, you’re being ambiguous – I’m trying to suss you out.”

“Suss”? What does that mean...

Argggh! Great, I am trying to out snark a Brit. That's a pointless and doomed endeavor if there ever was one.

I say good day to you.

Anonymous (not verified) / Thu, 09/22/2011 - 06:51

Wow. Two. I am a huge fan of his, so if you have a signed copy , I will pay you TOP dollar for it.

Very funny.

B. If you have constructive ideas on how to prevent this( that actually could be implemented;) I’m all ears.

They should try these crimes on the international stage.

It was a shot at Scientology and The Nation of Islam. They are big on aliens. You would have to be physic to have gotten it. You aren’t physic ,are you?!

??? Do you mean psychic? There's no such thing.

I can understand Islam being a rape culture, the Koran makes that pretty clear, but Buddhism, Catholicism, Judaism and Christianity?

Operative word: most. 2nd & 4th are in the same boat.

That’s a stretch. How can admonishing premarital sex, debauchery, pornography, abortion, and objectifying women be encouraging rape?

Abortion, premarital sex & porn aren't wrong, for 1. Most patriarchal cultures treat women as objects. Remember, don't covet your neighbor's wife? Women were chattel well into the 19th CE.

Great, I am trying to out snark a Brit. That’s a pointless and doomed endeavor if there ever was one.

HA! I'm a yank, born & bred. I do fancy the British turn of phrase, though.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 09:51

It saddens me that there are so many freethinkers who lack basic reading comprehension skills.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 11:48

Don't be sad, champ. Have a little faith in your fellow man. I knew what you were trying to say,even if you didn't.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 12:56

I hear ya, Al. I used 'eradicate' in a sentence, & nobody jumped up & accused me of implying genocide.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 13:27

There are better words to use that won't reduce the impact of your message. Let this be a lesson. Force the other side to bring the fire AND the gasoline. You should be defending your position, not a choice of words, and I'm sure I don't need to tell you that the opposition to reality will do anything to distract from the message.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 13:13

I came to this article late, and I'm slightly off topic, but why do people keep throwing Hitler at us atheists? (like jv) Even if you ignore that he plainly stated his religiosity in Mein Kampf, and the church was prominent in his rule, even if he turned on some christians, that still doesn't make him an atheist. I don't think he ever espoused any sort of atheistic views. Religious people are always saying "Oh, those people are not true christians." so why is it hard to grasp that Hitler would define some sect or division of christians as not true christians, and kill them? (besides the obvious point that christians refuse to accept that they do bad things or that christians do very bad things like murder.)

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 09/21/2011 - 15:23

Why throw Hitler at atheists?
The throwing Hitler at atheists thing is an attack on the credibility of atheism to be moral in any way. In that respect, its not very different from throwing the Catholic priest pedophile thing in the face of Catholics as an attack on the credibility of their church as a moral institution. It puts the other person on the defensive and leaves them in a position where they have to explain it away. It also gives the person who attacked time to make more arguments for their viewpoint while the defender tries to recover ground in the conversation. Its a method of distracting from the issues being argued in present day by bringing up shameful past events. The truth as to whether Hitler was an atheist or religious person doesn't really matter in such a situation as long as it hurts an atheists credibility. Its akin to being sent to jail for a murder you didn't commit and being found innocent but having that situation brought up over and over by people who dislike you and want to attack your credibility.

Differences in definition
Many NonChristians view anyone who worships Jesus and takes at least part of their beliefs from the Judeo-Christian Bible to be Christian. American Christians for the most part identify other Christians as people who follow Jesus Christ and his messages of love, peace, and salvation. Because of this, in a Loving Christian's viewpoint there can be no such thing as a Hateful or Violent Christian. Its viewed sort of like a duck trying to call itself a swan. Just cause you call yourself a swan doesn't make you a swan even if you come pretty close. A NonChristian would not make this distinction and would identify both Hateful Christians and Loving Christians in the same category as both ducks in a row. Its also worth noting that it must seem pretty odd to a Christian person for an Atheist to tell them what makes a person a Christian. In cases where people say someone "isn't a true christian", I just take the lazy route and say "alright, but they supported what they were doing using the bible and did it in the name of Jesus Christ".

Saying that a Hateful and Violent Christian isn't a true Christian is also a way of skirting off the effect that person's actions would have on the appearance of Christianity to both believers and nonbelievers. It would be like if someone brought up Stalin and said "he was a communist and an atheist!" and I replied "Nah, he wasn't an atheist. All atheists are good moral people who just don't happen to believe in God". That same person could reply, "NO! Stalin didn't believe in God so he was an atheist." Which would be true. But then I could simply lie and reply, "you must not understand the true nature of atheism. All atheists are good moral people. There's no such thing as an evil atheist. All immoral people who claim to be atheists aren't true atheists." I could even go a step further and say "all immoral people who claim to be atheists are really satanists." It skirts the effect of mentioning Stalin together with Atheism under the rug and the person who said he was an atheist would have to spend time supporting his claim that he was an Atheist in the face of my stubbornness.

Anonymous (not verified) / Thu, 09/29/2011 - 06:58

Mr. Stefanelli claims he is only referring to eradicating "doctrines".

"They don’t respond to lawsuits, letters, amicus briefs or other grass-roots campaigns and they must, must, must be eradicated."

"Doctrines" don't respond to legal proceedings--PEOPLE do. Clearly, this sentence is referring to PEOPLE and he is calling for the eradication of a group of PEOPLE.

Anonymous (not verified) / Fri, 09/30/2011 - 03:19

Clearly, your comment shows how ignorant you are, and that you lack even the most basic skills in reading comprehension.

Anonymous (not verified) / Sun, 10/09/2011 - 20:43

Just as Than Shwe knows, one of the chief means of implementing irrational propaganda is to speak to the almost universal fear and hatred of others in distressful times, telling them, if they remove 'x' things will be okay. This article is a text-book example.