Supporting Civil Rights for Atheists and the Separation of Church and State

Oct

2011

God Said It, I Believe It, That Settles It...

Author: admin / admin's blog

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A Statement That Is The Epitome Of Ignorance

Whenever I hear a believer state, in one fashion or another, “God said it, I believe it, that settles it,” I know that there is an impending breakdown in the likelihood that a reasonable, rational, intelligent and diplomatic conversation is going to take place. Those oh-so non-judgmental patrons of Christianity, Islam and Judaism who believe that their god has given strict, unbending, draconian, bronze-age commands on certain issues land them squarely on the flat, worn-out faces of the brick-walls we know as ignorance and intolerance. Throw in a dose of hatred and bigotry, for good measure.

Many times these beliefs, indoctrinations and superstitions end up with horrific results against humanity, either directly or indirectly. I’ve got permanent palm prints on my face from my own hands as a result of being told by some of these kooks that, under no uncertain terms, they fervently believe that:

Homosexuals should be killed

Cross-dressers should be killed

Adulterers should be killed

Members of other religions should be killed

Members of no religions should be killed

Children should be beaten with sticks

Television is the gateway to hell

The Internet is the gateway to hell

The movies are the gateway to hell

Women are the gateway to hell

Dead babies will burn in hell forever

Mentally ill people will burn in hell forever

People who drink alcohol will burn in hell forever

People who drink coffee or tea will burn in hell forever

Eating certain foods will send you to burn in hell forever

Everyone “else” will burn in hell forever

A blood transfusion will get you and your soul annihilated

Women should not be allowed to own property

Women should not be allowed to vote

Women should stay at home and have babies

Women should always be submissive to their husbands

A husband has the right to beat his wife

A husband has the right to rape his wife

A husband has the right to have more than one wife

A husband has the right to a pre-pubescent wife

Pedophilia s the fault of atheists and secularists

Obama is the Anti-Christ and should be destroyed

The United States was founded as a Christian Nation

The <insert holy book> is the only true word of god

The earth is 6000 years old, Satan made it look older

The earth is 6000 years old, God made it look older

Evolution was invented by Satan, evolutionists worship him

Members of other religions are insane and deluded

Members of no religion are insane and deluded

There is no such thing as mental illnesses; it is just the results of living in sin

Only god and faith can be trusted for healing (thousands of children die each year as a result)

The earth is really flat (yes, these people still exist)

Black people are cursed by god to forever be servants and slaves

Some people should be burned alive

Some people should be tortured, then burned alive

If their god tells them to kill strangers, they are compelled to obey

If their god tells them to kill their friends, they are compelled to obey

If their god tells them to kill their family, they are compelled to obey

If their god tells them to kill someone for drawing a harmless cartoon, they are compelled to obey

If their god tells them to kill themselves in the process, they are compelled to obey

I think you get my drift. Now, mind you, there are not very many few people who hold all of these to be commands from their god, as they represent a few different aspects of all the Abrahamic religions. However, while holding any one of these beliefs signifies a possible breakdown of the ability for rational thought, there are some Judeo-Christian-Islamic sects and cults that can (and do) claim most of these as part of their dogma. Some of them are considered mainstream.

Church And State...

Many of the people who hold a significant amount of these beliefs currently occupy seats in the United States Senate and House of Representatives as well as key White House cabinet positions. A couple have recently held the office of the President. Worse yet, there are hundreds and thousands who hold local offices, are teaching in our public schools, are responsible for the careers of subordinates and many walk around with guns and badges. The number of people in our military who hold many of these beliefs is simply frightening, because they hold positions all the way up to the rank of General.

It is toward these people that many of us non-theists draw the line of diplomacy and tolerance, and where we insist on pointing a finger in the direction it belongs. The unwillingness of the extreme right wing Christian/Muslim/Jew to budge from these horrific beliefs, no matter how many times they have been proved utterly and incontrovertibly wrong, is reason enough for us to be decidedly undiplomatic in our discourses.

Due Dilligence...

I have received a fair share of admonishments from fellow unbelievers about my polemic attitude toward these nut jobs. Some of them still believe that it does more damage than good to hold the positions that I do, and that my attitude does not engender in these whackos a desire and willingness for them to listen to our side of the discussion. Well, they are right. However, what they fail to understand is that I really don't care.

When it comes to these people, I see no other way to communicate with them. I interact with perfectly normal believers all day long. My family consists of Christians, Muslims, Jews, Deists and even a Buddhist or two, and I’ve got news for my fellow “diplomacy only” minded atheists; most of them are just as equally fed up with these wingnuts as we are.

There is no diplomacy with these individuals, and very often their reaction to just being in the presence of an atheist warrants our undiplomatic, intolerant finger-pointing. Besides, I am not out to win a Nobel Peace prize, nor am I out to make friends with anyone who holds the beliefs I listed above as truth. I don’t give one, single iota of credibility to their beliefs and I will continue to make it my mission in life to make it as difficult as I possibly can for them to be perceived as anywhere near resembling normal people.

They are dangerous, ignorant, uneducated, hate-filled, narrow-minded, bigoted, intolerant, self-righteous fools that have been brainwashed into believing that committing some of the most horrific acts of inhumanity toward their fellow men, women and children are the want, will, desire and command the sick, twisted, perverted, megalomaniac of a deity that they have turned their god into.

A huge other "think" needs to be foisted upon anyone who is under the impression that these whackos deserve to be treated diplomatically or with any tolerance for these toxic beliefs. Likewise to anyone who thinks that these individual's points of view even deserve to be included as equal in any sense of the word with rational, reasonable discourse.

---------------

Al Stefanelli - Georgia State Director, American Atheists, Inc.

Comments

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 17:43

I enjoyed this rant very much. You are absolutely right: there is NO chance of dialogue with faith-heads who are more than a little unhinged, sad and lost to the point that their supernatural enthusiasms zip right by "crazy-a$$" and race right past "disturbing" and lurch their way, heaving and sweating and gasping from the armpits of delusion straight into "Oh. My. Science. What the hell is wrong with you people?" Those of us who were raised in a cult UNDERSTAND the sneering vileness of the literal mind ...Hence, the communication problem. It is extremely difficult to crack the fanatic's frozen ideological sea, especially when they tell you that there is NO such thing as "religious fanaticism" only varying degrees of FAITH, the ultimate virtue!!!

stb1965 / Sat, 03/24/2012 - 04:09

We must respect the other

We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. H.L. Mencken

skb / Sat, 07/07/2012 - 17:11

The business world called "RELIGION"

I was brought up as an atheist, and then God showed himself to me. Then I became religious and I accepted Jesus Christ. It took me a very long time to disown Christianity and then religion. Now, I just believe in the spirit of God.

I have found that religious people do not really know God or believe in him. Instead they have found and believe in the business world called religion. God does not need religion, the bible or Christ to straighten us out, because he will work with all of us on a one on one bases, for as many lives as it takes.

Religion is a club, where people that are willing to believe and think a certain way, get together to have fun and a family atmosphere. But the business world of religion, must entertain the sinners and be pleasing to there sinful state. This is why little or nothing about religion makes any sense. So you have the singing, dancing, the fashion show and whatever. But for the brain washing they need story time. So the churches write their stories and then put it into a book called the bible. But all of this cannot be of God or godly, because the spirit of sinners hate the spirit of God, with all their heart and mind. So religion is simply to entertain sinners by saying what they want to hear and doing what they need you to do.

Sinners love sinning, but want to think that they can be save or be freed from sin, even if they hold on to it. You do not have to give up sin to be freed from sin so to become a better person, you just except Christ.

LoriQ. / Tue, 08/28/2012 - 10:09

Wrong Site!

You are on the wrong site! There is NO god or jesus or heaven or hell!

NoGod1 / Sat, 09/22/2012 - 13:26

Wrong side

There is no "wrong side", only misguided people.

asphilosophy / Fri, 10/26/2012 - 15:53

Correction.

She said "wrong 'site'" as in wrong website. You are on the wrong website. So, ironically, you may be the misguided one. No one here believes that any physical, metaphysical, metaphorical or otherwise--version of god exists. Agree to disagree and don't waste your time trying to prove anyone otherwise. But while we're on the topic of your original post, who are these so-called "sinners" you're referring to? If you've rejected the bible and all constructive religion, then what source gives you the authority to deem any given person a sinner? Just a curiosity. Also, *accept.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 03:38

Quote from Raymond: "A government that is supposed to represent a diverse group of people of different faiths ..."

That's a nice theory, but the reality is that government represents those in power in the government. The nice thing about a church is, if I don't want to it, I don't have to have it (at least in the US). You really don't get that option with government. You do what they say, or you pay the consequences, up to and including death.

Now for me, I don't see the problem being the church, but the state. Sure, the church is interested in manipulating the state for its own interests, but so is every other special interest in the country. So while I'm all for separating the church from the state, I'm still not interested in giving some other special interest control of the state, including my own special interests.

It's a bit like blaming the banks of a river for a flood, rather than the river itself. Seems to me that the problems between the church and the state are with the state, not the church.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:19

You really aren't making all that much sense. What are you trying to say? it sure as heck doesn't seem to have anything to do with the separation of Church and State.

As for special interests, at least those that are secular in nature can be argued against on their merits or lack thereof. Stick Jesus on one of them and suddenly it cannot be scrutinized and that's a major problem.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 09:17

Quote from CPT_BRUMBL3Z: "You really aren’t making all that much sense."

It is the state that has the real power. The church can do nothing to enforce anything without the state.

Separation of church and state. Separation of education and state. Separation of medicine and state. If the state controls it, then the state can be manipulated by some special interest to force changes on people who don't want it, especially minorities.

Atheists are a minority and probably will be for some time. To think that the religious majority is not going to manipulate the state in their own interest is simply naive.

Ceremonial deism, intelligent design, banning abortion, all issues today because of religious influence IN GOVERNMENT. Trying to get government to be on 'our side' is a waste of time. The fight should be to get the government out of these systems completely.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 15:03

Quote from geoih: "Separation of church and state. Separation of education and state. Separation of medicine and state."

One's religion is private and personal and thus should be separate from state so all can practice what they believe (or don't believe) on their own.

The state supplies education through public schools and has to monitor what children are being taught and how well they are learning in order to guarantee that they will be competent adults - what one is taught also influences how people perceive the world so this is also a method of manipulating/influencing future generations. I'd like future generations to be required to learn basic math, science, and english and be at least somewhat competent in them.

Medicine must me monitored by the State because of fake and sometimes potentially dangerous and lethal drugs as well as "quack doctors". I would like to be treated by a government licensed doctor whose passed a test that shows that he is at least somewhat competent than be treated by some guy off the street.

Quote from geoih: "Atheists are a minority and probably will be for some time. To think that the religious majority is not going to manipulate the state in their own interest is simply naive"

Yes, the majority often gets their way. Yes, atheists are a minority. Yes, the religious majority will manipulate the state for their own interests; However, we do not live in a strictly majority rule society. We live in a country where the majority will often gets its way BUT the government also abides by the constitution and bill of rights which guarantee and protect the rights of minority groups.

Quote from geoih: Trying to get government to be on ‘our side’ is a waste of time. The fight should be to get the government out of these systems completely.

I agree. I don't care about getting the government on my side per se. I want the government to be unbiased and uninfluenced by special interests. I want it to be able to look between all the options and pick the best one and not the one that the church, wall street, labor unions, etc are bribing or threatening them to pick. This is unrealistic but it's still something to work towards.

Quote from geoih: "If the state controls it, then the state can be manipulated by some special interest to force changes on people who don’t want it, especially minorities."

The state can be manipulated by special interest group no matter what they control really.What sort of things do you think the Government/state should have control of? I'm probably wrong, but it kind of sounds like your arguing the government is bad altogether and should be separate from everything. While the government is flawed, its still better than total anarchy with no regulations.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 14:40

Quote from geoih: "You really don’t get that option with government. You do what they say, or you pay the consequences, up to and including death."

I would agree with you...but we don't live in some third-world country under a dictator. The U.S. constitution and bill of rights protect the rights of minority groups and the freedoms of speech, religion, etc. They also prohibit cruel and unusual punishment. U.S. law thus reserves the death penalty for aggressive rapists and murderers, and even then the death penalty is absent in several states that just imprison murderers and rapists for up to life. Sure if i lived under some dictator and argued with him, I might be killed or imprisoned, but arguing that in the US a person would get killed or imprisoned for simply speaking out against the government is more than a little foolish. Unless your talking about some sort of government conspiracy secret assassination which I would find more believable - though I doubt it could be put into practice all that often. Now if i spoke out against the government and killed people who disagreed with me or started a violent riot or something of that nature then I'd probably be imprisoned and maybe executed.

Quotes from geoih:"That’s a nice theory, but the reality is that government represents those in power in the government. "

You're right. Ideally in theory, the government is supposed to serve and represent the people; however, in practice the government is flawed and needs to be worked on. I have to disagree where you say that the government represents ONLY those in power. Governments that represent only those in power, such as dictatorships, are often overthrown by the people they rule over- though often times they're replaced by another dictatorship.

We live in a representative democracy in which people elect those who they want to represent them in the government. They choose these people because they agree with them more than the other candidates and believe they will make similar choices to their own on different subjects. The people elected represent the will of the people who elected them - hence, "representative democracy".

Quote from geoih: "Sure, the church is interested in manipulating the state for its own interests, but so is every other special interest in the country." and "The nice thing about a church is, if I don’t want to it, I don’t have to have it (at least in the US)."

Yes, special interests manipulate the government. Yes, we should take special interests out of the government. Religion is a type of special interest - hence, take out religion because of this. Its not the ONLY special interest group that should be taken out, but it is one of them. The nice thing about church IS that if we don't want to have it we don't have to have it; however, the church tries to impose its doctrines and beliefs on the government and pass religious oriented laws that force everyone to partake. I do not care if my neighbor or governor is a christian, a hindu, or a jew. I do care if my neighbor harasses me everyday about not bringing my child to church, eating beef, or eating shell fish or if my governor tries to make intelligent design a science to be taught in schools or outlaws abortion on religious grounds.

Quote from geoih: "It’s a bit like blaming the banks of a river for a flood, rather than the river itself.
Seems to me that the problems between the church and the state are with the state, not the church."

I did enjoy this analogy. Though I'd have to say the special interest groups are like rain and the government is the river. The rain influences the river and causing it to overflow, but if you lessen the amount of rain then the river won't flood. Without the river, a lot of rain can still cause a flood, but a river without rain won't cause a flood on its own.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 10/17/2011 - 10:03

I hope someday you actually sit down and try to understand U.S. law and government instead of spouting nonsense because you feel jaded by it.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:03

Geoith said:"So while I’m all for separating the church from the state, I’m still not interested in giving some other special interest control of the state, including my own special interests."

The difference is atheists just want an even playing field, and the government is supposed to keep the field fair, but has been allowed to become influenced overly by the religious, partly because atheists didn't believe they could muster enough support and even sometimes feared for their lives. We must speak up more, and the government is our ally against a more powerful and devastating evil: religion. Their influence certainly will not go away on its own. We must fight them at every turn, and keep watch so they cannot continue to try to overturn what freedoms we have left.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:06

"there are not very many few people"

Al, very many is redundant.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/12/2011 - 04:11

diligence*

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 05:06

Well said!

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 05:29

Well that part about television being the gateway to perdition is true. Especially the new LED 1080P high definition models with wifi. :-)

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 05:59

"Church And State..."

I find it a little perplexing that people can be so adamantly against one of these institutions, and yet so willing to submit to the other, as if the people running either are somehow especially ethical.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 09:14

You're right that the people who run the state aren't necessarily more ethical than the people who run the Church and vice-versa. Your also correct that there are religious anarchists and anti-theist loyalists who willingly submit to one while denouncing the other.

However, the idea is not the people running one institution are better than the people running the other. Its that Church and State should be separate and have nothing to do with one another. A government that is supposed to represent a diverse group of people of different faiths and beliefs passing a christian-sect oriented, muslim oriented, or any other type of religious oriented law is hypocritically favoring one group over the others. A government official can be a religious person, but one's religion is a personal private matter and it's doctrines and tenets should not be forced down the throats of everyone through government laws.

PPLRWRD / Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:08

Church and State

Now, I personally feel that Church sould have no control over government. We have seen in history what comes of that. But I do have a problem with the silencing of Christians or other believers in Government. As a person I bring to politics my beliefs, values, and morals. Religoun is an integral part of me and those values and morals. So saying I can't bring religoun to Government is the same as saying I can't bring my morals to governement. It can't, not that it shouldn't, it is impossible for that to happen.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 10:30

This is one rant I wholeheartedly support and agree with. I plan to bookmark it and link to it whenever I'm tempted to go into this exact same explanation for the umpteenth time when some theist/apologist tells me that I'm being dogmatic in my anti-theism (whatever that is intended to mean). I just don't understand how a person with even a semi-functioning brain can believe anything so willfully self-destructive. If only these unthinking uncaring compassion-less schmucks would open their eyes and realize that they are negating the beauty and wonder of the world that IS by believing (and acting upon) such hateful fairytales, the world would definitely be a better place for us and for our descendants.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 13:00

Sorry, but seeing epitome spelled as "opitomy" in my RSS feed somewhat ruined this for me.

Anonymous (not verified) / Tue, 10/11/2011 - 15:51

It was an honest typo that was corrected within 10 minutes, with an apology. Sometimes my left-brain's phonetics overpowers my right-brain's 20 year career as a writer. Hope you enjoyed the article, though.

Anonymous (not verified) / Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:16

God said it, I believe it, that's it. True for some but not all Al. Let's not forget those Christians who do not necessarily agree with something in scripture (something like a contradiction, or hypocrisy, or which shows God in a bad light) and are staunch in their belief that that is not what God meant as if they have a personal line to God and somehow He translated His true meaning of the scripture to that person. These people are equally exasberating and irrational.

Anonymous (not verified) / Mon, 10/31/2011 - 12:07

scriptural references for those statements would have been nice , and useful. you made a good case to us, the choir, so to speak, but the religious reading that would just deny it was even in their books.

francisissickofgod / Wed, 03/14/2012 - 18:30

man isn't god great and fair

man isn't god great and fair and equal!

jbulmer / Sun, 03/18/2012 - 10:20

My first Post

We moved to a small town in the midwest 15 years ago. My wife is moderate Christian, I am agnostic/atheist. We have no problem with people of Faith and in what direction they choose to conduct their lives. We are not in the Bible belt, but we are close to it. There were 14 Churches when we arrived and several more since then.

The rub comes not in the Religious doctrine of these people, which is often shaky at best, but in the social aspect. We are social beings and need support of our peers and leaders we have confidence in following.

As Atheists (under cover) we are welcomed in churches, but it is uncomfortable being blitzed by Professional Religionists to join their party and give money. But it’s what they do.

My main problem with “people of Faith” is that for many, God only exists one day of the week. What happened to the Ten Commandments and a Godly Life the other six?

We are Law-abiding citizens, we give to Charity, we do not lie, cheat, steal or Witness to our children, yet we are quietly ostracized by our neighbors. If we want a peer group, we have to join a Church, or a Faith-based Service Organization (Choose any Service Organization, they are all infected with Religious people living the “Right” way).

The old books were written to describe a socially acceptable way of living, but it has evolved (Many, many years ago) into Political power-broking. Christianity pretty much ended with Constantine’s making it the State Religion, turning it political and many other historical examples exist.

Businesses fail here because owners are not local Churchgoers. “Blessings” abound all over town, all over everything. The governing Church Boards of Directors decide which direction the faith takes and have no problem “Eating their young” to purify its mission, or stall a lawsuit, or gain a donation.

My biggest problem is that once I have seen corruption, blind adherence and power at work, it cannot be un-seen.

The Church is not only the biggest Political influence in this country (that’s the 6-days a week bunch), it is the most social, so if I am not a member of one of its organizations, I am outside. Doesn’t matter who I am or what I do, I am outside.

There are a few Taliban-like religious sects in this country (not necessarily Muslim) and there are many more good and decent people who go to good and decent churches.

The Torah, the Bible and the Koran all contain good advice and tenets for living. Unfortunately, they also contain the ravings of lunatics. They are historical documents dressed in stories and life-lessons, but their truths are illustrated with fictions and should be understood as such.

Religion is a Profession. The University down the street teaches Professional Religionists and when they graduate, they inhabit their inbred communities, much like the Military. They get posted around the country, run into and work with people they know and live a similar lifestyle anywhere in the country. You can’t take this away from them; it is their security, their flock, their way of life, but it is exclusive unless you “ Joinnnnn Ussssss”. They are not weak, they are comfortable, and they have power.

Maybe it’s just the Devil playing God.

Donridge / Thu, 05/03/2012 - 19:28

"Maye it's just the Devil

"Maye it's just the Devil playing God."

If the Devil was real that is exactly what he would do. What better way to get people to comit evil than to convince people that it was God's comand.

UnderNobody / Thu, 03/29/2012 - 00:42

If the Christians beleve in

If the Christians beleve in loving thine enemy, why are they so hell bent on destroying them?

undead_kid / Thu, 03/29/2012 - 17:33

valid point. its actually

valid point. its actually quite stupid if a person thinks about it...

undead_kid / Thu, 03/29/2012 - 17:35

follow the rules you make, and dont be stupid about it.

i enjoy the company those who are christians and are actually nice to me, but all these 'rules' that they have, then dont follow is a bit much. ('Members of other religions should be killed.' obviously im not dead yet. 'If their god tells them to kill someone for drawing a harmless cartoon, they are compelled to obey.' they're retards if they actually do that....) oh, and even if they say it, i highly doubt that the 'earth is really flat'. my point being, if people are going to make rules, they should follow them.

CarlYMathews / Fri, 03/30/2012 - 23:30

Making statements without

Making statements without citing chaptor and verse causes me to waste time on research.

Annalang87 / Wed, 04/04/2012 - 13:43

Wow

I came to this website after watching the story about Ms O'Hare on an episode of "disappeared". I was curious why people were so adamant in about arguing with other people's decisions on life. I believe in God and weather that irks you or not, I do have a few friends/former coworkers that are self professed atheists, but for one, don't make it the center of their lives or every conversation to bring it up every breath they take, they have a life and are actually supportive of me and respect my decision to be Christian just as I choose to be respectful of others and not bible thump you.

Your list is what really got me laughing. One not one if those points have I ever heard myself or anyone I know say anything like that. No one should be killed, they should be given a chance and a free choice on whatever they decide to do. I've been friends with homosexuals their lifestyle is what I'd choose for myself but you must be kidding that we think they should be killed.

If you spent more time trying to MAKE your world BETTER than sitting on your thumb rambling about nonsense amongst "the choir" who already thinks the same way as you do, you would get things done.

I don't understand why a group of people act so bent out of shape over such stupid things. Truly insignificant things. The majority of this country is used to and fine with the idea of separation of church and state because they always will have the option to gather and worship somewhere else if they want, go to a religious school if they want and like I do, work for a non profit catholic hospital (I'm not catholic and don't hold that belief system but does it bother me? No!)

What matters is what you think within yourself and what you believe or don't believe. Who cares about anyone else. I'm writing this like talking to one of my kids telling then to chill the eff out about something dumb, it's no big deal, stop getting all red in the face about it and making a fool of yourself.

You aren't changing anything, you just annoying a few people while being ignored by the rest of the "75%", FYI.

Quit having a hernia over things you cannot change. If its political then go ahead and get your lawyers, I couldn't care less, just forget about ranting because it's doing no good except making you appear like a bunch of high school girls talking behind every one else's back. That's your choice to act that way. You probably already realize it, so whatever, doesn't bother me a bit. I will just tell you exactly how it is and will always be.

Reality Check / Thu, 05/24/2012 - 18:21

A couple of things. First, it

A couple of things. First, it's "whether" and not "weather". "Weather" is a naturally occurring phenomenon that you and your Creationist ilk have the arrogance to believe requires an unseen intelligence flipping the switch on.

Second, you have an awful lot of balls coming on an atheist message board and telling US that what we are talking about is nonsense. I myself have no qualms with you believing in your ridiculously absurd notions about how "it is and will always be" in your primitive brain, but I have a MAJOR issue with any "allegedly" ancient book of antiquated rules and magic tricks and fairy tales attempting to worm its way into the public school systems and filling the impressionable heads of our students with some rigmarole they cooked up to offer a "dissenting viewpoint" on how life was created and trying (and failing miserably I might add) to disprove evolution. When your fairy tale world comes in contact with the REAL world and starts messing around with trying to teach actual APPLIED SCIENCE out of your fictional farce that you have allowed yourself to believe as absolute truth, THEN we have a problem.

Third, as to the "75%" remark...it may interest you to know, that 86% of all statistics are made up, usually on the spot.

So in closing, continue to believe whatever line of bull crap that comes your way from the pulpit or any other delusional source of "information". Until you have the wherewithal and allow your brain to escape its primitive state and begin to question what you believe so strongly without any shred of physical evidence, I'd say that YOU are the one who is "fooling yourself".

Paul Lemons / Thu, 04/05/2012 - 23:47

I am perturbed, flabbergasted

I am perturbed, flabbergasted, and disturbed by the continuing efforts of misguided (to the point even of committing perjury in ‘Dover, et. al.’) and scripturally incorrect religious people to foist their misconceptions, under the guise of ‘scientific theories’ (creationism, intelligent design, etc.) upon the educational system. In addition to the obvious damage and hindrance to our educational curricula, these attempts are a huge misrepresentation of spiritual reality

Evolution as a scientific discipline must be divorced from the associated parent philosophy “Uniformitarianism” which was in vogue preceding it for reasons which have been discredited since. Evolution is a valid scientific discipline, Uniformitarianism is a disproven philosophy and school of thought. Uniformitarianism has intruded and embedded itself into scientific thought and thus skewed many considerations of cosmology and astral physics from being objective and empirical. Never mind poor old Emmanuel Velikovsky: While the evidence that he was considering was and is relevant and valid, his derivations (due to his great lack in correct scientific methodology) and conclusions were far amiss. He thus did a great disservice to the school of astral catastrophism, and set back its credibility immensely.

The most recent conclusive disproof of Uniformitarianism is this(Coverage to the public was broadcast on a segment of Nova in the last 12 months):

1. In the past decade (survey completion in last 3-4 years) a radar/topological mapping satellite of improved precision surveyed the surface of Venus.

2. Recently formed (even of possibly historical times), non-eroded craters were found in large and significant quantities on the surface of Venus, craters which were not the result of volcanic activity, but of astral catastrophism (meteoric impact).

3. When a renowned (I didn’t take note of his name, due to the following) uniformitarian astrophysicist was interviewed for his opinion he said: “Well, I don’t see how Uniformitarianism can ever possibly explain these craters. But, nevertheless, I’m not willing to give it up”.

4. Gentlemen, this is not objective, logical, scientific methodology. Scientific methodology requires that when the derived conclusions of your theory are found to be false in light of the evidence, then you either discard the theory or, if possible modify the flawed part of it accordingly. To cling to it after it has been disproved is not objective, it is religious domaticism.

“Creationism” per se in all of its multi-farious manifestations, since it invokes to some extent and at some point a supernatural genesis of species, is thus by its very nature incapable of being a scientific discipline. That being the case, “creationism” has absolutely no place whatsoever in any scientific textbook.

Paul

amessageforthehumanrace

ImagineNoReligion / Fri, 04/13/2012 - 11:40

you christians are despicable

Any Christians that want to post on our blot should immediately leave. Religion is the worst thing to happen to the world since the Black Plague. All you bible-thumping irrational gay-hating bastards should clear out right now and take your preposterous idea of creationism back to the Bible Belt.

Donridge / Fri, 04/20/2012 - 06:58

Mutual respect

We cannot expect christians or any other theist to be open minded if we are not open minded ourselves. The fact that a christian would even consider posting on our blogs sujest some desire to discuss the issue of god with atheist. This should be seen as an opportunity not a nuisance.

However I do understand the need to vent. Especaly during the anger phase people go though when they first become atheist. I know I said a few choice words during mine.

PS / Mon, 04/30/2012 - 14:14

I am a Theist, but please

I am a Theist, but please think before stoning me. I am also a fanatic, yet I realize that I cannot prove the existence of God to an agnostic or atheist or even to myself. One of the things that bothers me the most is that most agnostics / atheists (certainly not all) are as determined as a religious fundamentatalist to support even the subjective conclusions of their non-belief. I have had a website for some 25 years at www.lifenotes.org - and now have a free Apple iBook for iPad. While the third section is theistic, the first two sections of the book are based mostly on objective arguments. I too welcome open minded discussions on objective arguments. PS

Reality Check / Thu, 05/24/2012 - 18:40

Donridge: These people ceased

Donridge: These people ceased being "open-minded" once they cast reason aside in favor of "faith" in something they will never physically observe. They only deserve as much respect as the majority reciprocate with, which is right around Zero.

Reality Check / Thu, 05/24/2012 - 18:37

Hear Hear! :)

fanofhitch / Wed, 04/25/2012 - 15:00

How'd you forget?

Deut. 22: 23,24 - A girl who is raped within city limits, and fails to cry out, must be killed.

I mean, if a girl has to get raped, at least take her outside the city limits. It's the word of God.

K-wak0808 / Mon, 04/30/2012 - 15:36

Out of Context

fanofhitch:

"If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:23, 24 ESV)

If you are trying to use scripture in order to dismiss Judaism or Christianity, at least quote the whole passage and try to understand what the passage is saying rather than write it off as irrational. This passage refers to Israelites more than 3000 years ago. No Jew or Christian today would declare that these verses are to be directly applied as they were in their original context. In that belief system, a betrothed virgin was a woman who was promised to a man in marriage and for all legal purposes, they were already married. The passage even states that "he violated his neighbor's wife." The woman was not raped, as you say, but she was having an affair. She was just as guilty as he was. The reason they were to be put to death was because they were a theocracy. They did not have a human king, but they believed God was their ruler. Under their theocracy, such blatant disrespect and, dare I say, sin was not tolerated.

It would be an extreme punishment in modern times but no Jew or Christian would agree to your statement. There is no more theocratic government that Jews or Christians must live by today. What they would get out of this verse is that you should not commit adultery because it is not right.

Be more careful about making arguments in areas that you are ignorant. You did not even read the verse correctly.

Donridge / Wed, 05/02/2012 - 16:21

Another common mistake

Another common mistake made by atheist and Cristians is that they fail to separate Old Testiment ideas from the New Testiment ideas.In the Old Testiment, God is seen as abitrary and the primary vertue is obedeance to God. Stoning was considered an aceptable punisment so long as God had no objections to it.In the New Testiment, God is seen as wise and absoulute and his primary vurtues, as Jesus tells us, are love, peace, and aceptance. Under the New Testiment stoning is a completely unaceptable form of punisment; any clams that God demands oftherwise should be dissmised.The Old Testiment should generaly be considered old news in regards to Cristianity because many of the ideas are incompatable with New Testiment vertues.The point being made by this blog is that many Cristians fail to comply with the primary vurtues of Cristianity; Love, Peace, and Aceptance.

Divad Yblik / Thu, 06/21/2012 - 00:32

Biblical Inerrancy

There's a good section on "Biblical Inerrancy" as part of a common sense (and rather humorous) takedown of creationism, in "The Theory of Evil-ution vs The Mythology of Creationism" at "grumblesfromanoldgrouch.com".

PPLRWRD / Sat, 07/21/2012 - 02:50

I like this, lets hit on each

I like this, lets hit on each of these points:

Homosexuals and Cross-Dressers should be killed: Yep, says that in the Torah and Old Testament and is condemed in the New Testament, Koran, Buddism, Hinduism, etc. But I don't know about all the other religouns current take on things but Christ's take was that Man tended to jack up the whole Judging thing so the "killing of homosexuals" is not permissable by Christ. Though there are a few idiot's who haven't a clue about the concept of hell and actually cheer the idea that Homosexuals will burn in damnation. Personally not something I think is worth being happy about even if I don't agree with homosexuality.

Members of other religions should be killed: Every religous leader but Christ says that, including a few Athiests I have met.

Members of no religions should be killed: Every religous leader but Christ says that.
Children should be beaten with sticks: I think that was actually spare the rod, spoil the child. Though the Old testament did advocate stoning of Children who were exceptionally disobidient. But that was only after the entire counsel of elders decided on this and again was taken away by Christ when man started screwing it up.
Television is the gateway to hell: Really, we didn't just see the movie theater shootings were the guy thought he was the Joker? But seriously, there is nothing in the bible about T.V.
The Internet is the gateway to hell: Calibine Shooters. But again, nothing in the bible about this.
The movies are the gateway to hell: Really, we didn't just see the movie theater shootings were the guy thought he was the Joker? But seriously, there is nothing in the bible about T.V.
Women are the gateway to hell: Uhhhhh. Seriously, God created women for man?!? And I am a Christian and love women.
Dead babies will burn in hell forever: This is new on me. Which Bible are you reading?
Mentally ill people will burn in hell forever: Again, new on me.
People who drink alcohol will burn in hell forever: Jesus created wine?
People who drink coffee or tea will burn in hell forever: Mormons, not Christians.
Eating certain foods will send you to burn in hell forever: Jesus countered this one when he said "What leaves the mouth makes one unclean, not what enters it."
Everyone “else” will burn in hell forever: These things are getting pretty repetative. But yes, Jesus said that he is The Way, the Truth, and the Life (or maybe light, I don't remember). No one gets to the Father but through him." This is deffinetely something Christians believe. But if you don't belive in God, what have you to worry about. You think I am going to send you to hell by saying I think you are going to hell without Christ? Not a very rational feeling or thought.
A blood transfusion will get you and your soul annihilated: I think Catholics may believe this, but the only thing I know of in the Bible is that you are not to drink blood. Since blood transfusions didn't exist until relatively recently in human history I don't think this was addressed either way.
Women should not be allowed to own property: I think there were a few women who had property and power in the Bible. But it is true, there is definetely an established heirarchy in the Bible with men at the top. But men screwed this one up because they always clutched onto the "Men should be in charge" verse and forgot the "Men should love and honor their wives as themselves part.
Women should not be allowed to vote: Don't know as there is a lot of talk about voting either way in the bible, but I do know there were women prophets.
Women should stay at home and have babies: Maybe we wouldn't have so many kids running wild if someone (man or women) stayed home with the kids.
Women should always be submissive to their husbands: There is definetely an established heirarchy in the Bible with men at the top. But men screwed this one up because they always clutched onto the "Men should be in charge" verse and forgot the "Men should love and honor their wives as themselves part.
A husband has the right to beat his wife: Never heard of it. That is new on me.
A husband has the right to rape his wife: Never heard of it. That is new on me.
A husband has the right to have more than one wife: Shoot man, this is a practice in some parts of the world by those who don't have any semblence of Christianity. The one wife thing is an American and Westernized ideal, not a Worldly or religous ideal. But actually, the new testament say that it is good for man to have only one wife.
A husband has the right to a pre-pubescent wife: Never heard of it, but I do know it is common practice in the World at large especially in tribal societies. But for Christianity this is new on me.
Pedophilia s the fault of atheists and secularists: I would think that my feeling is pretty common, it is a cause of sin and selfishness. Not any particular religoun, non-religoun, or belief system.
Obama is the Anti-Christ and should be destroyed: Hell, there have been a lot of Anti-Christs. Hitler, Stalin, etc. People will be saying that until the real anti-christ shows up and then they will worship that guy.
The United States was founded as a Christian Nation: Oh boy, I hear that time and again from Christians and how untrue it is. It was just created by a lot of Christian who warned against running the nation without religoun. You know, like in Washington's Farewell Adress when he says: "Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religioun and Morality are indispensable supports." But I do think he also made it clear we were not a Christian nation, but a nation that allowed all to believe and speak their beliefs as they felt right.
The <insert holy book> is the only true word of god: Duh, and I bet Atheist think their Atheist handbook is the one true word. That is why we discuss or differences of opinions, take what we learn from one another, and freely ignore or implament it into our lifes as we choose. But we don't silence others. That is un-american no matter what belief system one claims.
The earth is 6000 years old, Satan made it look older: Never heard of this. New on me.
The earth is 6000 years old, God made it look older: Never heard of this. New on me.
Evolution was invented by Satan, evolutionists worship him: Never hear of this either. Oh, when I say I never heard of this, I mean from the bible. Not from people with their own opinions. I have heard of these things but it is not what I have read or learned about Christ. Just wanted to clear that up.
Members of other religions are insane and deluded: Hell yeah they are. Ha ha. Yes, doesn't everyone, including Athiests, say that.
Members of no religion are insane and deluded: Same as above.
There is no such thing as mental illnesses; it is just the results of living in sin: Hey,not saying it is right but is there proof that is is not correct?
Only god and faith can be trusted for healing (thousands of children die each year as a result): God also teaches helping ourselves. So I know people think like that but do not know were it game from.
The earth is really flat (yes, these people still exist): Dude, everyone thought that. Not just Christians.
Black people are cursed by god to forever be servants and slaves: Mormons, not Christians believe this. Contrary to popular belief, Jesus was not White.
Some people should be burned alive: Wow, you really go on with this kill thing. Ok, in the Old Testament God did use people as a tool for his punishment if you believe in that stuff. But then people started screwing it up and doing things "in the name of God" but not actually in the will of God. So God took that away in the New Testament with Christ. However, I can't speak for other religouns and beliefs but I would say everyone has blood on their hands, even those anti-religous nuts like Hitler.
Some people should be tortured, then burned alive : Same as above.
If their god tells them to kill strangers, they are compelled to obey: We are compelled to obey God in all things, but I can't say as I have ever been compelled to even think about killing another.
If their god tells them to kill their friends, they are compelled to obey: same as above.
If their god tells them to kill their family, they are compelled to obey: same as above.
If their god tells them to kill someone for drawing a harmless cartoon, they are compelled to obey: Never heard of this. This actually happened? Wow, what a nut Job.
If their god tells them to kill themselves in the process, they are compelled to obey: Oh, you mean like the Jeffrey Dahmer with all these killing things? These people aren't Atheist, Christians, or anything else. They are simply nut jobs.

Adulterers should be killed: Same arguement as above but I must admit I see a lot of none-Christian people out there that seem to still agree with this when they end up in the news on the way to prison. Seems that the victim of cheating might agree with this. Though Jesus did say it was o.k. to get a divorce in this case and defended a adulter so obviously he wasn't about killing Adulterers.

Wow, that was a very long list. Dude, seriously, put things into the proper context. The problem isn't Christians, Atheists, Islam, Budha, or anything else like that. The problem is human nature.

Oh, and sorry for all the spelling mistakes. I am sure there are a bunch.

PPLRWRD / Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:45

Just Because.....

Just because someone does something in the NAME of Christ, it doesn't mean they are doing it in the WILL of Christ.

doctordave77 / Mon, 08/27/2012 - 14:45

I am a born-again, card carrying wacko. Proud of it too, the worst kind. Anyway, the above titled "God said it, etc." containes SO many statements that I disagree with that I'm forced to respond to them one at a time. Here we go with "Homosexuals should be killed".

Not at all, not at all. Jesus never proposed any such idea and neither did God in the Old Testament (OT), although the OT references to Sodom and Gomorrah will need some explanation.

God describes homosexuality as being a sin. However, sin isn't exactly what it's commonly known as and described in the popular media. Strictly speaking, the original word for sin in a biblical sense may also be translated as "missing the mark". It's also "not doing what we know is right". Sins are profulagate in the Bible and also include such widespread misdeeds as gluttony, adultery and cursing.

When you look at just some of those other acts that are also considered sin there isn't a person in the world who isn't reponsible for at least a dozen or two, perhaps a gross or two would be a more accurate minimum. Consequently, as a Bible believing, God says it so I believe it, Christian wacko, I find myself in a situation where I am responsible for committing so many sins that I couldn't even attempt to count them. And the fact that you may be a homosexual is no comfort to me, rather I find myself on the same side of the fence as you. Almost holding hands one might say.

A true born-again Christian has no right to accuse or condemn anyone else in the world of being a sinner, let alone killing them for it. If anyone qualifies for killing for their sins, it would be me, for starters. So, if I am true to Christianity as presented in the Bible, I can condemn no-one who says that they practice homosexuality. Anyone who does is probably trying to avert their eyes from their own sins by pointing at someone else's shortcomings.

Killing homosexuals isn't even on my map.

Dave

ps. covering the OT event of Sodoma and Gormorrah would take too much space here so I'll cover it in another comment.

rgraham1 / Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:30

Good stuff

Wow! That was awesome! That whole message really resonated w/ me. Why give creedence to the drivel being spewed out by these folks. It's scary to think how much their religion can affect all of our lives. Reason needs to always prevail over ignorance.

crippledsteve / Thu, 10/11/2012 - 21:32

I have this happen at work way to much.

I experiance this ignorance at work at least 2 to 3 times a month, and when my boss and I make our case as to why the very thought of prayer healing people is obsurd and that there are studies that have been performed that show prayer is irrelevant to healing, I get a response the mirrors what you just said, its in the bible so I know it works and they have no proof that it works. On a side note, I was told the big bang theory is false because matter cant just appear out of no where. My response was Does that include loaves of bread and fish? That person just walked away.