Arguing With A Theist Is Like Arguing With A Child

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary (online version) "atheist: one who believes that there is no diety". I hope this clarifies what we mean when we say we're atheists.

I've told you how to convince me: present your evidence. Until you do, your claim is little different than claims of anti-gravity, perpetual motion, or travel back in time, none of which can be disproven, but also things without evidence. Like love and beauty, or hatred and ugliness, yours is just another claim that exists only in your mind.

At the age of 10 I was placed in a room by a priest with instructions to "pray and meditate on the greatness of God". Apparently (I have no better recollection of the events surrounding it except that it was part of my catechism), I wasn't a very good bible student.

Given my young, impressionable age, I really tried hard. I read the passages the priest suggested but also I skimmed other parts of the Bible.

After a couple of hours I was very frustrated and I really wished that I could find in me that "faith" the adults were talking about. If nothing else to put an end to the torture and go ride my bicycle instead.

Eventually, the weight of unanswered questions (How did Adam and Eve children populated the earth?) and what for my age was some serious introspection I realized that I did have faith indeed. Faith that this god they were trying to sell me did not exist. In my mind I kept superimposing the god of the Sistine Chapel over the spiral of the galaxy (I was always interested in astronomy) and imagining him as the supreme creator.

But it wasn't working.

When the priest came back for the 10th time or so, I lied by omission and told him that I found my faith. I didn't tell him that the "faith" I found was that god did not exist. That the cruel, vengeful, petty god of the bible was no god of mine and that even to my 10 year old mind such a creature could not exist because the so-called proofs of his existence were fables that had no basis in reality.

Since those days I have been able to find much better reasons to doubt god and even better reasons not to believe in any religion. For many years I lived happily as a non-militant atheist. I started a family and I had a wonderful, sweet daughter that grew up without any religion in her life. Despite that, she grew up moral and kind and altruistic. She respects me as her father (likewise with her mother), knows not to steal and certainly knows not to murder.

All those years, religion was a non-issue, just like it is to many religious families that do not practice their religion assiduously. Only for use there was no church not to go to. No priest to ignore, no church ladies to avoid walking down the street.

I was under the false impression that given the facts available to me, any reasonable person had to come to the same conclusion and I figured that most of the people I interacted with were really atheists at hearth trapped into following a set of traditions for quiet living.
Somehow that did not disturb me a great deal.

In fact, even as an atheist I had a propensity to give the benefit of the doubt to clergy and believers as people I could trust more than just any Joe because of their faith. Even though I was a non believer I was under the ridiculous assumption that religionists would be at least as moral as I was and therefore they could be trusted.

Subsequent experiences (I call it "getting older") made me realize that I had it completely upside down. That the more an acquaintance or a business partner was religious the more I should keep my eyes open and my hand firmly upon my wallet. That these people lack of morals was inversely proportional to their devoutness.

After all, they had this divine entity forgiving them for all but a few things. They could steal, lie, injure at will and have it all wiped out with a couple of Ave Marias.
I had no such luxury. If I did something wrong or immoral, I had to live with it and its consequences.

In later years, as I was growing more aware of the social cancer religion is, I read the Bible, Quran and Talmud as much as possible to try to understand this delusion so many people believe in. The more I read and ponder these morally broken beliefs, especially the "holy" texts, the more I find justification for my atheist convictions and life style.

I still give everyone the benefit of the doubt and I still know many good people that happen to be devout. I cannot understand them, but their actions are just and their hearth in the right place. I feel no need to try to dismantle their belief system or constantly remind them that they believe in fables. And as long as they return the favor, we can watch a game together or have a civil conversation and leave our differences outside our relationship.

But I also see so many liars, so many truly evil people that turn their religion into a justification for every immoral deed you can think of. I seethe when I hear them spout nonsense in the media, when they protest persecution knowing full well that if they were in charge they would do to me far worse than I would ever do to them.

So when I read statements such as:

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I am not trying to impose my belief on you nor am I trying convince you to believe what I believe. However, I still find amazing that anyone can claim the non-existence of God, with absolute certainty, without having exhausted all possibilities.
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I have to speak out.

1) Of course you are trying to impose your beliefs. We all do to an extent, but Christians have it as a mandate from their god. Please be honest.

2) I find it amazing anyone could believe in the Christian god (and the rest of them as well) given the utter lack of physical proof there is. No one can disprove God with absolute certainty. That is absurd, yet you do exactly the same in reverse: given the same lack of evidence you think god exists absolutely and the concept of god not existing is completely foreign to you. You are the one making absolutists claims, not us.

3) We do not believe in god, any god. It's as simple as that. You do not believe in Thor either (unless you are a Marvel comic fan) and how is your personal relationship with Zeus going for you? Not so well I imagine.

Now, take your attitude toward Zeus. Take the philosophical arguments you'd use to disprove Zeus and apply them to the Christian god. You'll find they fit rather well.

I suspect that if Christian stopped trying to impose their religion in our government, schools and our very lives, Including trolling atheist blogs, many of us would not interfere with your lawful exercise of your constitutional right to religion.

But when even just mentioning the word "atheist" in the media is enough to cause a frenzy of protests from viewers. When if we want to buy a billboard to try to reach fellow atheists, not any different from the thousands of billboards churches buy year around for their constituents, it escalates to out and out war where our right to exist, let alone free speech, is put into question and assumed to have no standing.

When we have to listen to some old fart on TV declare that Christians are persecuted (Give me a break. Christians like martyrdom. They live for it. Not unlike their Muslim brethren except that instead of explosives they try to kill us with boresome tall tales.) while at the same time making no mystery of their desire to persecute us as far as they can take it.

I don't find it unreasonable that some of us become a bit more militant and "close minded" (that a joke coming from your side) when presented with the same old tripe.

Worship your god in peace and grow some empathy for those that think unlike you and maybe all this hostility will go away. But if you keep coming here with your poorly veiled threats of everlasting hell, if you insist on making a mockery of the science that keep us all alive and educated, then you reap what you sow.

You accuse us of having a sense of superiority, yet you keep making analogies like "I too was thirsty before I found god", or "I respect your beliefs, I too was an atheist, but then I realized I lived in darkness but I found the light".

There is just so much of this drivel a sane person can take before they start using 4 letter words and dismissing you without recourse.

I have had people tell me "You cannot be an atheist because atheist do not exist. At the most you are an agnostic".
How would you like it if I said "You cannot be a Christian! At the most you are a Mithra worshiper".

Sounds stupid and pretentious, doesn't it? That's what your statements sound to me.

Anyway, I realize I went a bit further than I intended to. As much as I despise what you have posted here, I have accused you of things and thoughts you have not expressed in these few posts. Consider those addressed to the wider Christian audience, but I would not be surprised if I reflected your thoughts precisely.

To you personally, try a bit more humility, especially when you are in someone else's house. If you expect your religion to be understood, make an effort to understand the beliefs of others. Many forget that Atheists become so after often long and tortuous journeys while Christians are often the product of a single worldview and therefore possess a narrower viewpoint.

Good day

1) We used the same methods we used to conclude there is no Santa Claus. I wouldn't waste my time trying to exhaust all the possibilities that, say, unicorns exist, so why do your god claims get a special pleading?
It is a matter of burden of proof. It is the onus of those making claims to present evidence that they are credible. Have you exhausted every possibility that Hinduism is true? No, and neither should you, because it's not your responsibility to disprove every fantastic claim made in the history of humankind. The initial default position on every claim must be disbelief, and the onus is on the claimant to convince. Your god claims too fall way short of any accepted standard of evidence.

2) We are not "shutting the door" to anything. The door is wide open, feel free to step though with your evidence. Atheism is not a religion, and does not claim absolute knowledge on anything. it is simply a position on the existence of god/gods. Most atheists would admit to being agnostic athiests - agnosticism being a position on knowledge, athiesm being a position on belief. The existence of an intangible, non-interventionist god is unfalsifiable (along with most other woo), but using Ockham's razor, if there is nothing to distinguish between god and no-god, we must assume the latter.

3) My openmindedness led me from superstition to my current reality based world-view. Once you open your mind to the possibility you might be wrong, and honestly and diligently inquire as to the veracity of the core of your religious beliefs, that is the honest conclusion you must arrive at. Have you been open-minded enough to even consider you might be wrong? By all means keep an open mind. Keep searching/researching. But ditch your assumptions, preconceptions and superstitions when doing so. You have already arrogantly imposed your preconceptions of what an atheist is without any prior research. You are the one making absolutist truth claims without presenting evidence. All we say is "Convince us"

There is no evidence for a god. If you wish to claim there is a god, then present your evidence. Simply because some apparently really smart people, today and in the past, think there is a god, is not evidence. It's just opinion.

Lacking any evidence that there is a god, the logical position would be that there is no god. Why would the person recognizing this lack of evidence have any obligation to consider there could be a god? There is no evidence for all manner of things. If somebody thinks up a reason for believing in them, does everybody else have an obligation to consider those beliefs valid?

If you believe in a god, then I hope you're happy with that, and as long as your beliefs don't adversely impact me, I could really care less. If you come up with some evidence to substantiate your beliefs, then let me know and I might reconsider my position. In the mean time I'll continue my own searching/researching.

@bafbarros1

I've noticed a distinctly annoying factor with your replies. Your first reply to the topic was antagonizing, I would even call it "troll-bait". Simply put: you want to argue. I'll dissect your hilariously hypocritical nonsense.

Quote: "Just a few questions for all the Atheists who think that those who believe in God are stupid or childish." :endQuote.

For this, I'll refer you to the title of this post: "Arguing with a theist is like arguing with a child."

Quote: "1 – What method did you use to exhaust all the possibilities and conclude (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that there is no God? The answer should be that those who believe are stupid. I want specific steps that you have taken to come to exhaust all the possibilities in this universe and beyond." :endQuote.

What method or steps have you taken to be sure there is a God?

Quote: "2 – By completely shutting the door to the possibility of the existence of God, are you not in effect claiming to be omnipotent (the all-powerful, the know-it-all)?" :endQuote.

I may not be speaking for all Atheists, but I for one have not closed my door; I enjoy a good debate with anyone, theist or Atheist. Atheism is a belief, as is Christianity, Buddhism, etc. The word "belief" could be substituted with "opinion." For example, I believe that Barack Obama will win the next election. Using your logic, I am claiming to be omnipotent because of that belief. I do not believe there is a God, could I be wrong? Hell yes. ( no pun intended ;) )

Quote: "3 – Are you not in effect, in very simple terms, a close-minded person?" :endQuote.

Because you reply to the post was, in essence, a reply to the author of the post, I will use quotes from said post.

Quote: "I enjoy a healthy debate with a person of faith ... " endQuote.

This disproves your last statement, i.e. "3-". A debate is one way of trying to convince another of a specific view or opinion. Likewise, if you are open for a debate you are open for changing your views. Thus, the author of the post is not a closed-minded person.

However, if you were referring to all Atheists, I would like to point out that you are generalizing a statement that affects several million people. It is akin to stating that all Muslims are terrorists.

I find it incredible that any intelligent person could be theist. You simply have to be ignorant to be theist and intelligent. I am aware that that is a very crude and vulgar statement, but I'll have my rant.

Rant:

Are you familiar with the story of Lot? He is a very holy man, and a coward. When the men of Sodom rioted outside of Lot's house, demanding to have sex with the men inside, Lot gave them his two virgin daughters. The refused them, of course, wanting a more masculine companion. Before they broke in to Lot's house, however, angels came down and saved the day! The angels blinded the men so that Lot and his loved ones could escape.

The angels told Lot to flee to the mountains, but Lot didn't want to. While fleeing, his wife turned to go elsewhere, disobeying the angels, and she was turned into a pillar of salt. Then, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God with balls of fire and sulfur.

When Lot had finally escaped, his two daughters raped him. They got him so drunk that he didn't know what he was doing, and had sex with him to preserve the family line.
Read about it in Genesis 19.

How can you accept a God who would condone rape, incest, genocide, slavery, etc. Please explain to me how Noah could build an ark to harbor 2 and 7 (look it up) of every species of every animal, for forty days and forty nights no less! How could the entire human race be the decedents of two people? How can the Earth be only 6000 years old?

The answer? God. Of course. How did I pull a rabbit out of a hat? Magic. That makes perfect sense.

Did you know there is more evidence to support evolution than there is to support gravity?

:endRant.

- Stultus

First, I don't believe all who believe in god(s) are stupid or childish. I've met a good many very intelligent people who believe in a supernatural being who runs things from the heavens. Second, their arguments tend to be as circular as yours.

Q1. The methods I used to arrive at my stance as an atheist are many. Some include current scientific evidence in various fields such as: anthropology, archeology, physics, mathematics, history--ancient to modern, genetics, evolution of religion, various religious practices and stories from ancient to modern, mythology, folklore, paleontology, literature, humanities, philosophy, rhetoric, psychology (no doubt others but you get the drift).

My question to you is where is your proof and what method did you use to arrive at your conclusion that there is a god? What were the steps you took? My guess is that it was programmed into you from a young age. That method seems to work much better for christians than conversion. Please consider that you may have been brainwashed and need to examine your beliefs further. It"s very scary to confront your own belief system and realize it may be wrong.

If your only proof is the bible, which according to you is the word of god because it says it is the word of god (circular reasoning), then by the same token you should believe me that there is no god because I say there is no god (full circle).

Q2. I leave a little room for doubt as do most of the atheist scientists. I'd say I'm 99.9% certain there is no god. If I remember my logic correctly, you can't prove a negative. Therefore, whether you like it or not you are the one that has the burden of proof. I hardly consider myself "all-powerful" or that I "know it all" but I have done a tremendous amount of investigation and thinking and from the available evidence, I believe myself correct.

Q3. I am quite the opposite. I am a very open-minded individual. I just don't believe in absolutes.

You say scientists will never disprove the god proposition. They have managed through physics to find the very basis of existence, explained by the Planck theory, string theory, and entanglement theory. Looks like they are very close.

People can honestly say they do not believe in god(s) based on sound reasoning and reliable science that has built on the knowledge of hundreds of preceding generations of brilliant thinkers. The problem for the world lies in the myriad of people who insist on holding on to bronze-age mythology and ignoring the plethora of evidence in great halls of learning, which will inevitably lead to species extinction. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It bothers me.

I am afraid you have missed my point but I am probably to blame. If I came across as superior, at least from my standpoint, I truly missed the mark, and I SINCERELY do apologize.

The POST to which I was responding, referred to those who believe as 'childish and stupid'. I am not sure why those who do NOT believe feel the need to make those who DO believe feel stupid or childish, but that is often what I come across whenever I read anything from Atheist blogs, etc.

I know that I am not superior to anyone else, nor have I ever felt superior. It would go against everything I believe in and it would certainly go against what God expects of all believers.

The main point I was trying to make was to always keep an open mind and not close the door perhaps prematurely. The fact is, no one really knows for certain (even those who do believe) and that's why we call it FAITH. I am not trying to preach here, but we (Christians) believe that faith is something that is given to you by the Holy Spirit. One cannot suddenly wake up one day and say, now I have faith. It is only given to those who are open to it. The God I know and believe in, will not force anyone to believe. However, if you seek Him with an open mind, an open heart and a humble spirit, He will reward you with what we call faith - the faith the saves. I cannot claim to have that reached that pinnacle - not even close - but I hope to get there some day, with help from God.

I challenge you to start today and genuinely seek God with an open mind. If you do, I believe good things will happen. And by good things, I don't mean materially, but rather spiritually.

Again my sincerely apologies if I in anyway offended you or anyone else for that matter.

Have a GREAT day!

Sincerely,

Barros
Canton MA

bafbarros1 I was happy to walk away from our arguments as there is no hope talking with someone as brainwashed as you in the cult. But I actually did go to the link equip.org and read through many of these elementary arguments. Here I will post one for all to see how weak they in fact are.
1. Does God Do Miracles? CP0105

DOES GOD DO MIRACLES- Evidence
... In the case of the resurrection, however, the historical evidence is so overwhelming that skeptics can only appeal to their own biased opinions if they wish to persist with their rejection of the gospel.

DOES GOD DO MIRACLES- Laws of Nature
... Finally, anyone who believes that an all-powerful God brought the universe into existence should find no difficulty in believing that God can perform miracles within His own creation — and remember the greatest “miracle” of all which is the transformation that happens in a person’s life when Jesus Christ becomes the Lord and Savior of their lives.

On miracles, and answering the question of "Does God Do Miracles", that’s the CRI Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.

This is the type of stuff you are being taught bafbarros. Backward logic and all. This is a representative sample of all of the arguments on this site. Weak is an understatement for what I read. Please do list the overwhelming historical evidence of the resurrection which your website does not provide. Is the overwhelming evidence the vastly different accounts of the ressurection listed in all 4 Gospels. Not one of them has the same story. Mark's ending was added much later and was obvsiously forged according to scholars. Finally, any evidence you take from the Gospels of the resurrection has been proven to be from non eyewitness accounts. It is all hearsay. Not one book of the gospel was written by anyone who ever met or saw the fictional Jesus in person. Is that overwhelming evidence? Hardly. And with logic like this "anyone who believes that an all-powerful God brought the universe into existence should find no difficulty in believing that God can perform miracles within His own creation" how do you not see how ridiculous you and other Christians sound when you say something as this? I have heard better arguments from elementary school children. Well bafbarros, we atheists along with scientists do not believe in the fairy tale of Genesis and the bible. Consequently, we do not believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy or your miracle man God/Jesus.
Let me pose this question to you bafbarros and I will await your reply and explantion. Scientists, nonbelievers and many religionsits do not believe in the literal tale of Genesis any longer. The religionists who do not are advocating Intelligent Design which in no way allows for Genesis to be a true account of history. If the tale of Genesis is fiction, then Adam and Eve never happened. If Adam and Eve never happened then original sin never happened. If original sin never happened, then why in the world would Jesus be necessary? Jesus is supposed to take away all of our sins which Adam caused us by eating that damn apple. As Paul says in Romans 5:12, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." The Christians beloved Paul, rests all of man's sin upon Adam eating a piece of forbidden fruit and thereby causing God to have to send his only begotten son to sacrifice his blood for all of us. Once you realize Genesis is a myth bafbarros, you see there is no need for Jesus in this play and the entire Christian faith crumbles like a house of cards. Please reconcile this for all of us nonbelievers.
I am now done with you and this topic. Maybe some of my other friends on here would like a crack at you now. Have a great day and I look forward to your answer to my question about the need of Jesus as more and more people see Genesis as a fable and a myth.

I read the piece on Religion on this web site and the comments by Buckeyenonbliever above and I am trying very hard not to contain myself. It is difficult not to classify the piece on Religion as one of the most ignorant pieces of literature (if you can call it that) I have ever read. I cannot believe that someone wrote it, read it, and still posted it.

Over the years I have given Atheists the benefit of a doubt. I used to think that all Atheists were just misguided people who have never had an opportunity to learn about God. There was nothing I could do but simply feel sorry for them. However, the more I read this web site and others, the more I come to the conclusion that most Atheists are definitely arrogant and perhaps even lazy. They use science to rationalize God out of existence, without realizing that everything about science comes from God. They fail to realize that without God, there is no science. They also rationalize God out of existence out of convenience, and some even plead ignorance. They fail to realize that ignorance is no excuse. They use evolution to explain creation, without realizing that it is impossible for this universe to exist out of nothing. Everything humans have created or invented on this Earth of ours required some sort of ingredient (at least one). That being the case (no one can refute the previous statement), why would anyone come to such a conclusion that this universe and all that exists in it, came from nothing? It is preposterous and science cannot explain it even with the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang is a nice plausible explanation for the origination of the Universe; however it is preposterous to believe that it did not have a cause. If there is an effect, they must be a cause. It cannot be explained otherwise. You may not want to believe the God of the Bible, or any other god(s) for that matter, but there has to be one.

I have often heard people say, but if God exists, how was He created? This is a question I, myself, wrestled with as kid for many, many years. It even continued into my adulthood until one day I suddenly found my own "explanation" that at least made some sense to me. It is obviously not a scientific explanation – there is no such thing in terms of explaining God – but by own “unscientific theory,” which has helped me to think of the existence of God prior to the universe being formed.

I thought of an imaginary line with no beginning and no end (aka eternity). I also imagined a God not bound by the limitations of this Universe (our own limitations). In other words, He lives in another dimension outside of our universe, not known by science as we know it(this is not impossible to imagine even though it cannot be explained).

---------Project x1 begins-----Project x2 begins------- Project x3(creation of the Universe)----Project x4 begins-------and so on---------------------

This of course is not something used by religion to explain the existence of God or the creation of the universe but rather my own way of thinking about it, which has helped me to step out of box and sort of visualize how it could be plausible. The one thing I have not tried to do (NOR WILL I EVER) is attempt conceptualize how He existed prior to all of these so called projects. That is of course the unanswerable question I dare not even think about because it cannot ever be explained. I simply accept that He existed. Hence, this is where my Faith comes in.

For those who believe that the Bible is just another mythical book clearly have no clue. They fail to realize that Jesus is a real historical figure. He was NOT made up as a mythical character. This is not Greek Mythology. Even some of the most brilliant scholars of our time now recognize that Jesus live on this Earth. Whether or not you believe He was the Son of God is another matter, but he clearly existed.
For those who are curious and do have respect for others (the believers), here are some useful links:
http://www.equip.org/perspectives/jesus-of-nazareth-the-historicity-of-j...
And if you find these in any way interesting, there is plenty of other literature on that site.

Wow, Mr. Buckeyenonbeliever, that was your come back! WEAK. Very weak indeed on all counts. You have just shown that you are totally misinformed about the Gospel, about Jesus and who He was. As an example, were Aristotle and Plato also mythical figures? Come on! You can do better than that! It is a recurring theme with Atheists. I have yet to find someone, anyone who can make an argument that makes any sense when it comes to this matter.

Did you actually read what I wrote or just skimmed it for KEY words so that you can quickly make your counter argument? It is as if you already have your answers prepared and no matter what I wrote, the comeback was going be the same old story. The same nonsense from someone who is clearly misinformed. Totally misinformed about the Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity in general. I would suggest you visit some of the links I had sent but I don't expect you to. But if you are going to hold an argument and claim to know anything about Jesus or the Bible in general, then I would suggest at least get informed.

I can see now why it is impossible to argue with Atheists. They are usually misinformed, and their minds are so, well, set in their ways, that it is impossible to engage them in any meaningful way. I realize I am generalizing here but if the rest of the Atheists out there are anything like you, I can understand why you continue to be an Atheist.

One more thing. The argument I made is mine, not St. Augustine's. If St. Augustine happened to make the same argument, that I humbled that came up with the same one or at least something similar. In any case, this argument cannot be debunked because scientists ARE and WILL always be in the dark about the true origin of the universe and the existence of God. Even if by some 'miracle', scientist were to come up with some plausible theory, you will be DEAD and GONE long before that happens. That means you will never find out, at least in this life, and science is not going to bail you out or save you. There is something you can take to the bank.

Good point, except that you are wrong, and I will never convince you otherwise. I can see that your mind is set in stone and I choose to not go any further here.

Whoever said the following (I am paraphrasing) is/was a genius:

'For those who believe, they already have sufficient evidence. For those who do not believe (and I add, 'or choose not to believe'), no amount of evidence is ever enough.'

In case you have not yet stopped searching and are interested in learning more, here is a good web site with all sorts of resources.

http://www.equip.org/perspectives

Best wishes to you and your family.

Sincerely,

bafbarros1

"Religion is nothing more than a social construction"

It needed repeating.

Hey, I have been extremely busy and unfortunately, I can even get into my response at the moment. In the meantime, I will leave you with this just that you are totally clear where I stand. As I mentioned previously, my faith is so well grounded that nothing you or anyone else says or does, will ever change that. You may call it brainwash, if you'd like. But I would suggest saving some space and time and not use that term again. But, if it makes you feel better about yourself or your cause, knock yourself out.

Again, I will say this, "For those who truly believe, they already have sufficient evidence, but for those who not believe, no evidence is ever enough".

I should also point out that I have no expectation that I will ever change your mind. This of course, begs the question, why are we doing this to begin with? I am not sure I know that answer to that question but we will leave that aside for the moment.

For now, I will simply say that you are still completely wrong about the Scripture. There is nothing you have written on this site that convinces me that you have even the basic understanding of Scripture. Just because you have read, does not necessarily mean that you understand it - and it shows. Unfortunately, I do not have time to go into it at the moment but I will just as soon as I can find sufficient time.

I will leave you with this question to ponder. You had stated the following in one of your previous comments:

"We actually read the bible (all of it) and not just the warm fuzzy verses. We do not cherry pick our favorite verses but rather take the entirety of its writings to form our opinions. Try it sometime and I promise it will open your mind and your heart to the real story. And unfortunately for the religionist, the real story is actually a disturbing, racist, mysoginist and evil myth better left on the fiction shelf of the library."

The one particular part of your sentence that caught eye is the last statement. You are content with classifying the Bible as having 'the real story, that it is actually disturbing, racist, etc'. You seem to be fine with that because it is clearly, according to you, a big black spot on the Bible. You seem to believe that part just fine, but everything else about the New Testament is simply a myth.

I must go now but I will return and explain to you why there seems to be apparent contradictions in the various stories in the New Testament. There is a fairly simple explanation for this. I will explain and it provide your references.

Later...

I love it! I already knew this but it is worth repeating. It is impossible to have an argument with Atheists without having them resort to name calling. Of course there is a reason for it. Any time two people are having an argument, the first who runs out of something intelligent to say, resorts to name calling. Really, I will ask again, does it make you feel that much more important when you call others ignorant? Do you know how ignorant you sound when you call other ignorant about something about which you know next to nothing?

I had previously said that I was going to explain to you why you are so wrong about the Bible but it is not worth it. It would be just a waste of my time.

Instead I will ask you these questions. Did you figure out for yourself that the Bible is a myth or did someone tell you? It probably does not matter but if you figured it out for yourself, you must be a genius above all geniuses. Who died and made you God? At what point in your life did you - the know-it-all, the omnipotent, the omniscient - figure out that God does not exist. Really, when did you come to that conclusion? Did you come to that conclusion on your own or did you have a little help from science - the same science that has only now begun to scratch the surface just about everything on this Earth - never mind the entire universe. How long have you been living on this Earth? Do you really honestly believe that God does not exist or is that you do not like the God of the Bible? I am truly and honestly trying to understand what you believe in, if anything. Do you believe that one day, without cause, the universe came into existence, and that all living beings evolved from a single cell amoeba? If you do, you must indeed have a really STRONG faith. Last I checked it was still called a Theory but of course it probably did not take you long to take it as Gospel.

Would it make you feel better if there were "gods" instead of the one God I believe in? Is it morality aspect of it that you do not like? Would it have made it easier for you to believe if morality were not part of it? Would you believe if there were no commandments to live by? What do you actually believe in? Do you even know? Do you believe in anything?

Please do not come back to the same old crap? I already know where I stand as far as you are concerned -- superstitious, ignorant, believer in the biggest myth and biggest and biggest conspiracy ever orchestrated in the history of mankind!!! Come back with some I have not heard before.

Let me now take this opportunity to apologize for not being as intelligent or articulate as you, and for my arguments being so childish. Let me also apologize for not having yet figured out that God does not exist and that the Bible is a myth. Perhaps it is not that you have actually figured it out. Perhaps it is your FAITH in science that has allowed you to come to that conclusion. A faith in a godless world, which must obviously be stronger than my faith in God. I do not know how old you are but I suspect you are not that old. Even if you were 90 or 100 years old right now, I cannot believe you were able to figure it out so quickly. Amazing! Do you even realize what it means to make such a statement? The next time you say or write "there is no God," stop and think about what you are saying. Look at yourself, look around you - not superficially - stop and actually think! While you are at it, you might also want to stop, humble yourself, and ask God forgiveness for your sins and ask Him to reveal Himself to you...

At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children".