Yesterday, we reported on an incident that occurred in Florida between an atheist, Michael Middlebrooks, and Governor Charlie Crist, who is also a Senatorial candidate. (You can read that post here.)
Where is the media coverage beyond the atheist Web Pages? Some atheists have stated a skeptical view of this incident without proof. As Hemant Mehta says in his Friendly Atheist Blog, “But you mean to tell me Crist — a Republican candidate for Senate — attacked someone he was talking to while on the campaign trail and there were no cameras around?”
Proof would be great. I certainly appreciate the skepticism. According to Atheists of Florida there are at least two witnesses to the event other the Crist and his wife. I am willing to take Mr. Middlebrooks and the second witness at their word for now.
In the meantime, John A. Kieffer, the President of Atheists of Florida, emailed the following letter (along with a snail mail copy) to Governor Crist:
March 8, 2010
Office of Governor Charlie Crist
State of Florida
PL05 The Capitol
Tallahassee, FL 323990001
Dear Governor Crist:
I am writing on behalf of Michael Middlebrooks, an Atheists of Florida member and doctoral candidate at the University of South Florida. He personally informed me of the details below, and a witness to this event is available for verification.
On Friday, March 5, 2010, during an informal evening gathering in St. Petersburg, Florida, Mr. Middlebrooks approached you to ask a question. Following a cordial handshake, he asked about the letter you placed in Jerusalem to prevent hurricanes from hitting Florida, to which you replied, ”Who’s more powerful than God?”
Upon asking again and getting a similar reply, he informed you that he does not hold a belief in God. According to him, you then reached out and “ripped” a campaign sticker off his chest, which read ”Charlie Crist for US Senate 2010,” placed there moments earlier by your campaign worker. Mr. Middlebrooks noted that you quickly turned your back to him while simultaneously shouting to him over your shoulder that you “felt sorry” for him.
Governor Crist, your reaction to Mr. Middlebrooks, an atheist whose views on religion are constitutionally protected, is sadly symbolic of the intolerance and bigotry that atheists across the state have endlessly endured. Imagine instead if you had ripped a campaign sticker off some other religious minority, say a Jew or a Muslim, shouting, as you did here, that you felt sorry for them. The outrage in such a case would create newspaper headlines around the world.
Let there be no mistake. Atheists of Florida members are outraged by your bigoted and humiliating reaction to Mr. Middlebrooks. Attacking his minority worldview is an affront not only to him, but to me and all nonbelievers who expect you, as Florida’s chief executive, to protect and defend our constitutional
rights, including our right to freedom of religion.
Therefore, I urge you to promptly offer a letter of apology to Mr. Middlebrooks for your demeaning assault upon his character and person. What you did could be
considered a hate crime because you committed this battery while denigrating his personal religious worldview. I would refer you to F.S. § 877.19.
Your letter may be forwarded to me for personal delivery to Mr. Middlebrooks.
Sincerely,
John A. Kieffer
President, Atheists of Florida
Posted by Blair Scott
Could someone please explain to me how removing a sticker (that had been paid for by the Crist campaign) from someone’s lapel can in anyway constitute a “battery”?
Also, can someone please explain to me how a supposed doctoral candidate doesn’t know how to spell beet?
jcc:
The sticker was personal property of of Mr.Middlebrooks, regardless of who “paid” for it.
Assault, is unwanted touching or the threat of imminent harm from word or deed. And due to the fact that the assault was in the commission of a possible felony – suppression of Mr.Middlebrooks’ civil liberties by a government official – it could be filed as an aggravated assault charge.
Therefore, as governor, Crist committed the acts of theft, aggravated assault (a third degree felony) and suppression of civil liberties; and to top it off made the possibility of charges a further measure worse by making it a hate crime, also perhaps a felony.
So, jcc, it is quite a tangled web he wove. “Battery” is not the proper descriptor, however “impeachable offense” and “felony” are fine adjectives.
JCC, from dictionary.com
Forcefully ripping off a sticker from someone’s shirt would constitute battery.
Good luck with it. Some proper media coverage would be really nice, so hopefully this Crist guy says something stupid to remove all doubt about the accusation.
He needs to file assault charges against Crist.
Technicalities aside, this doesn’t really seem like an assault or a hate crime. “Insult” seems to be the better word for it.
I would hope that, while the insult to atheists is obvious, this would be recognized as an insult to ALL religions. Christians are not served in any way by this moron who seems to think faith is something you can bully out of people. Is he implying that people who profess this belief only do so because they are afraid the Governor may have an ill opinion of them otherwise? Is that what your faith is… an attempt to gain approval from Gov. Crist (and those like him) and nothing more ? If not, religious folks should consider joining with atheists on this one to request an apology from Crist.
Charlie Crist is a closeted gay man with a virulently anti gay political record and is perhaps the most pitiable and loathsome self-hating coward in existence.
http://www.outragethemovie.com/
I agree with mdetrano here. Very sound thoughts md. Getting to up in arms about this is the political equivalent of shooting a bb gun at a freight train. Bflosue…I don’t know that, that action helps or hurts your cause. It’s overshooting a bit. As for our friend Mr. Sodomoite; I don’t know that the title you bestow on Mr. Crist has been earned. Jackass…perhaps, but there are far to many people who have gone to great lengths to earn such a dubious honor (Hitler, Nero, etc.). As far as being gay is concerned don’t most proud gay men think that most straight men are closeted and just haven’t met the right gay man yet.hehe.
None the less. This is a light weight swing in a heavy weight fight. Just be patient and the right opportunity will surely present itself for a solid knock out punch. Don’t…and you just open yourself up for counter punching that can lay you out. This is the realm of professional politics…you don’t need to make a minor league mistake and swing for the fences on the first pitch. Don’t you just love all the sports metaphors…I got a million of ‘em.
Or throwing rocks @ a train.
offtopic as usual
1 In interviews with german papers the pope’s brothers has acknowledged he keep quiet about beatings but still claims any sex abuse took place before he took charge of the choir.
2 Polls show Crist losing badly to his primary opponent.Maybe this nothing more than the bad emotional response of a guy being rejected by his party and knowing it.
typo should read brother not brothers and i am talking about the brother not the pope.The brother of the pope was in charge of a choir.
@mdetrano, conformnolonger
If the story is true, then this very plausibly can be argued as a hate crime. Crist’s violent outburst was triggered after Mr. Middlebrooks expressed his non-theism. Hate crimes are crimes committed because the offending party knows the victimized party is of some culture, religion, ethnicity, gender, etc., and that knowledge is the reasoning the offending party used to excuse their behavior. Whatever may have lead up to Crist’s short temper is irrelevant because he acted on his anger after his god’s existence was questioned and because it was. If that’s not the definition of a hate crime, I don’t know what is.
I understand your frustration CPT., but politically this is the wrong route. Have you ever been a part of really “violent” outburst? Your post leads me to believe that you’ve never seen the hand or product of realy violence. Otherwise you wouldn’t throw these words around so lously.
I grew up in an area that most people lock their doors, roll their windows up, and keep their cell on 911 ready. I know what violence is…and this ain’t. We can’t cry wolf. Don’t make this to be something it’s not, focus on what it is. This banter is why none of the major news groups pick up more stories. You don’t think they check these sites? They’ll never take your positions seriously if you make every mole hill out to be a mountain. Once you are the majority you can do it all you want…but you gotta be real…not whinny to play with the big boys.
I think you’re over reading what I said, especially since I don’t necessarily feel frustration, just slight surprise and disgust. Crist had a violent outburst and committed battery apparently in reaction to Middlebrooks’ atheism of which he promptly expressed his disdain for. Be it two homophobes plotting to murder a gay man or some self righteous religionut ripping a campaign sticker of someone’s shirt for questioning their god, a hate crime is a hate crime.
Ok. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I can’t believe that you were shocked by this though. This shouldn’t be shocking at all. I think you’re just playing it a little fast and loose with the words “hate crime” and “violence”. But…that’s just me. I do think an apology is in order though…for my typing/ spelling. Sorry about that. Gotta be more diligent about checking my post before I post.
I just believe that freakin’ out at every little thing causes more harm than good to your purpose. This is a political thang’…so I feel like playing the game that we’re in, not the one we wish we were in, is the key to ultimate success of equality under the law for all points of view. That’s all…good day sir
Hope for ukraine.New president Viktor Yanukovych is close to forming a coalition in legislature.Hopefully he will introduce registration of religions like russia to combat cults.
? can state gov’t in USA enact registration laws.
No. Religous freedom. That means you “should” be able to believe and worship, or not worship, in any manner you please as long as you are not hurting anyone else. That means that whether you believe in God or not you should not be discriminated against. We can’t inact anything of the sort here.
Freedom, or to be more exact personal freedom, is a damn dangerous experiment. You don’t want to force everyone to be an atheist, or punish them for not being one. Then your no better than the “believers” that treat you that way now. Is there danger in religion and religous freedom? Hell yes. Any philosophy, religion, or worldview imposed on a person is extremism. Whenever the pendulum swings to greatly in one direction or the other, from a legislative standpoint, it’s dangerous.
I take Benjamin Franklins quote to heart…”Everything in moderation…including moderation”
Story regarding conduct of the pope’s brother now in US papers also more catholic sex abuse scandal in netherlands.
Gay marriage legal in Washington DC.
Gay marriage defies logic is and affront to atheists.No communist nation ever allowed this because they understand homosexuality is an expression of the decadence and selfishness of capitalism.
Reason,
Thank you for reminding us that, while we are distracted with a hypocrit Republican involved in a desputed event about an illeged assault, that catholic priests are still out there raping children.
Any thinking person has to know that the cases of child molestations by catholic priests that have come to light are a thin scum on a deep putrid pond. I join you in reminding Dave that he’s lost his focus.
NeoWolfe
Neowolfe
Thanks,this pope wants to crush secularism and makes no bones about it.Why because secular people are willing to hold them to account unliked the brainwashed who just can’t believe their beloved priest/church would do something wrong.
OT
Dave…please comment on whats happening in Texas regarding k thru 12….we are going back to teaching our kids BC/AD instead of BCE/CE…
fuck you religion…leave the calendar alone….
Hmmm. Now what historic event marks the beginning of this “common era” BS?
Wow, more breathtaking brilliance coupled with unparalleled originality.
you win jcc….you can have this blog…Im out of here
Charlie:
I hope your not really bailing fromt the site. Don’t allow the pent up anger issues of a misguided professing christian. I say professing, because I have seen no proof to confirm that he actually is what he claims to be. Letting him push you off the site would be equivalent to letting the crazy guy in a Halloween costume british soldier costume outside buckingham palace to actually exit you from the property. You don’t do that. You just giggle, pat them on the head and enjoy the palace.
jcc:
Quit claiming Christ and doing what your doing. 1 Corinthians 5:12 – “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?” – Nothing pisses me off more than half witted Christians in full throated judgement of those that they have no business passing judgement on!
Listen Jack Ass! If you wanna duck and dive in here so you can excercise your self perceived moral superiority then do so under the guise of your own personal worldview…not a Christian worldview! Listen I won’t bother picking you apart theologically, but I also won’t let you go on doing what you do in the defense of my particular “ivinsible” guy that I stay in submission to. There is a right way to have dialouge here jcc…you destroy the ability for guys like me to live next door to guys like Charlie without pre-concieved notions destroying our ability to become friends and begin dialouge.
Christ’s greatest rebuke was reserved for those legalistic religous leaders who were the loudest about their moral rebuke of those who didn’t belong to God in the first place. Sound familiar jcc. Lay off! It’s counter productive and makes the rest of us who believe in God look small, idiotic, and full of unprovoked anger! You want to get into a biblical debate about this…email me. I’ll give you my number, but this is not the place for that! Got it!
Push him off? Wow, him leaving on his on volition—after making more staggeringly ignorant posts—is tantamount to me “pushing him off?”
Oh, I see now: pointing out the abject stupidity of atheists’ posts is now “passing judgment” on them.
Ooop! I’d be more careful there if I were you, such acrimony could be interpreted as “passing judgment.”
Whell, there’s certainly no judgment being passed in that proclamation, now is there?
Good, ‘cause I certainly wouldn’t want you to twist your arm out of its socket patting yourself on your back…
Oh? Is that a threat to “push” me off this site?—and exactly which “invisible guy” is that?
Ah yes, as defined by…you. All hail the self-appointed promulgator of the NoGodBlog rules of civility!
Waaaaah! Yes I, and I alone have utterly destroyed your ability to “dialog” with unassuming chaps like Charlie…
No, does it to you?
Oh wow, it’s do as I say, not as I do…
Let me get this straight. Somehow, a “Jack Ass” has the power to make the great and powerful you look “small” and “idiotic?”—uh, you might want to reconsider the cause of that.
For what?—just to get more of your smug, self-promotion? Nah.
Oh? This is your blog now?
Whatever.
Wow – I’m really starting to see why What thought that JCC & I were the same person. He’s pretty much stolen my voice, my style – almost everything, except that he thinks he’s as witty & urbane as I am (or so I’d like to think).
Wish I could declare plagiarism, but I don’t think that’d work on a blog.
Seriously, anybody who’d like to see him gone, email David. I’ve suggested doing so, but more votes that way would go far.
As atheists like to say here, “wow…just wow…” Let’s see; I’ve been posting here for almost FIVE years and this pathetic little neurotic wretch is now squealing “plagerism!?!”
My God, is there no bottom to his insufferable ego?
AND IT JUST KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER!!—first, little Javert here is astonished at how much I sound just like him, then in practically the same breath, he’s back to his adolescent whining to have me banned—FOR WRITING WHAT HE WOULD WRITE!!!! And to top it off, he’s PO’d at me for doing all that to another so-called Christian!! Oh the IRONY!!
I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried!
Please, please stop (again)! You’re killing me (again)! This is surreal… surely he’s not that oblivious to reality?
Yes folks, let’s put it to a vote. Email Silverman—but whatever you do, make sure you don’t mention to him the fact that poor li’l Dougie’s just admitted to being EXACTLY LIKE ME!!!
Oh my sides!!!
You might want to use your spell check a little more often.
& no, you didn’t sound anything like this almost 5 years ago when you started. You’ve borrowed/pilfered my style, bucko.
Cherry picked. No surprise.
Emphasizing my statement about you being less urbane & witty.
Dude, I’m not the obsessive compulsive who lurks around a blog antithetical to my own belief system.
No, it was unrelated to that. Of course, little mouse always has problems w/context.
Now, why do you assume that person’s not 1 of your own? & I’m not ‘P.O’ed’ about who you’re doing it to, I’m just irked that you lacked enough personality so you had to borrow mine.
No, you’ve made up some far more serious crap – I don’t have the time or inclination to illustrate your crazy, & you lack the self-awareness.
Says the superstitious crackpot.
I think we can safely call this 1.
Duh-LUSIONAL! I’m not – that is, I’m not a republican Bush-supportin’, ID backer, who receives non-verbal communiques from his imaginary friend.
We’re as different as night & day. I live in the real world, you live in a castle in the sky.
@conformnolonger
JCC could be told by Jesus himself that he’s wrong and JCC would retort in such a hilarious-if-it-weren’t-so-sad way comparable only to a man trying to put out a fire with gasoline. I’m pretty sure I told you already that jcc is nothing more than a troll who seems to have made it an important part of his life to vomit on this blog and call it art every day. Ignore him. He ignores facts, refuses debate, and pitifully cannot open his eyes to the prison of the mind he’s built around himself.
I quote KA:
“We’re as different as night & day. I live in the real world, you live in a castle in the sky.”
May I be allowed to comment in response to his holiness, KA?
While I share with you the realization that all the religions, both dead and current have been proven by science to be folklore babbled by witchdoctors as they recover from a drug induced coma, or invented by clever smoke and mirror illusionists to exploit the uneducated, it does not end the issue. I am not some confused person seeking the meaning of life, or contemplating my role in the eternal cosmos. But, you have treated me that way.
The discoveries of science, as it dispells myth after myth, seems to be pointing into the direction that the universe is an accident. There is no magic or mysticism, it can all be explained with a test tube and a bunson burner, and I admit that it may be true.
But, I don’t do maybe’s, I haven’t since I realized religion was a pile of assumed maybe’s. And when I watch, read, and listen to the greatest minds in astrophysics, cosmology and they say they don’t understand what could have caused the big bang, I think that puts you in the back seat, KA. And if you want to look down on me, since you know more than the brightest scientists on the planet, that you know what the outcome will be when the last theory is proved, that just makes you an opinionated dick, and a gambler.
I’m just a humble guy who admits that I don’t know. I don’t think that makes me, or anyone like me, a traitor to freethought. It’s just how science works.
NeoWolfe
Didn’t do that. I criticized your constant haranguing style.
You’re putting words in my mouth – AGAIN. I never made any such claims.
Again, I never said any such thing.
I don’t know how to make this any clearer: I critiqued your style, & your method of not applying any real evidence to any of your arguments. That’s all. An argument from absolutes is in most cases a false dichotomy.
But not so humble as to admit you owe me 4 apologies, is that it?
You really are reading way too much into it. I never ever said you were a traitor to that ideal. I stated that you weren’t the person we should model ourselves after. Which is how you come off.
Anyone who has been watching from the beginning can see easily the changes in jcc’s method of argument. Karen and I, and others, used to enjoy making fun of his predictable, asinine comments. But he has gradually adopted KA’s style and he has obviously spent countless hours trying to compose what he believes to be cogent arguments against atheism, evolution, climate change and abortion which he trots out at every opportunity even though they have been dealt with over and over and over and over…
To some degree he has been educated by this blog. He is more dedicated to this place than anyone else, with the possible exception of KA and he, along with phreedm and The Freethinker, are responsible for the loss of several interesting people who got fed up by the continual interruption and interference in what could have been useful discussion. That is his, and phreedm’s goal; they are winning.
They derail conversation with their idiotic Christian beliefs, and the smugness in their voices is certainly enough to warrant banishment.
CPT:
Thank you for the info on jcc. This time I will take your advice. The hopeless optimist in me would prefer to see him devolop as a person, but facts are facts. Like a small child whose tantrum must be ignored for the sake of his own growth I won’t address him any further. Thank you for your guidance CPT.
Yeah. He’ll either not reply to something because he knows it’s correct and he can’t make it out to be some exaggerated form of bigotry or he’ll blockquote everything he can, nit pick it to shreds, and leave you not even in the same argument anymore. I just ignore him since Dave seems to like having idiots like him and phreedm around. I guess they create dialogue but it’s the wrong kind IMO because all these two are doing is making us less patient with creationists and right wing sheep we might have a chance of getting through to.
Thanks CPT. I want you to know that my open rebuke of him is because he “claims” to be Christian. I believe that Christians should hold one another accountable for their actions. Especially when it’s hurting our overall purpose, and he is doing that. I didn’t want to be misleading with you because you have been quite helpful. Just so you know (not to create controversy) I am a Christian. But…
1. Believe in evolution (defnately micro, possibly macro…little confused after the discovery of ardipithecus). Karl Giberson was a very helpful author on this subject for me.
2. Not an uber right winger. I believe in smaller more effective govening and being fiscally sound, but all the social objectives to create evangelical Christendom fly in the face of my entire belief system.
3. I would never shout a person who does not share my beliefs for voicing how much they hate my beliefs. It’s actually what I’ve come to expect. Not to mention that Christ never shouted down people who didn’t believe in God, he shouted down those he believed misrepresented or took advantage of their knowledge of God. If memory serves (and trust me it does) he spent the majority of His time with those who didn’t…caught a lot of flack for it to.
Anyhow…not all of us handle our faith as with a chip on our shoulder. I won’t mention my faith again unless I’m asked specifically to do so. For example if there was someone who wanted clarity on how evangelicals might respond to something. I would love to be the lab rat, but I won’t interject my Christian worldview where it doesn’t belong. Just thought I would clarify for the sake of being as transparent as possible. Thanks anyways.
1. Since Macroevolution is essentially an accumulation of micro evolution over a longer time, then you certainly accept evolution (yes, accept, you cannot “believe” in a fact, you accept a fact ;D )
2. I feel sorry for the right wing, they’ve been taken over by a theocratic mindset and it’s been abused by those in and wanting power, and so obviously the big corporations have taken advantage of that. If the Tea Party stood for anything, it’d be to restore real conservatism in politics and purposefully strike at the Republicans as hasbeens. They don’t care anymore (assuming they ever did) and it’s frightening, but the tea baggers don’t seem to realize who the real enemies are.
3. Well, that right there is the problem with religion. People, good people, are mislead or simply interpret it wrong, or ignore certain aspects, and because they’re too fearful to question anything and because they’re so repressed they lash out against those undeserving because their precious bible gives them “authority” to do it. And that is what quite likely all atheists hate the most about it.
Anyways, you’re welcome =P Have fun here.
Actor Stephen Baldwin Takes Christian Indoctrination to the Xtreme
By Sarah Posner / AlterNet…Check this story out on http://www.alternet.org and tell me if it does not warrant our attention more than this one does…..The whole town is on fire and we are trying to save one house…
Steve’s hardly what I’d term a big time actor, & he’s millions in debt. So his gawd isn’t doing him any major favors.
I think that’s like this, another tempest in a teapot.