To my experience, a solid 90%+ of atheists I’ve met are solidly pro-choice. American Atheists takes no position on abortion, but if you do, here is a little inspiration.
And here’s a little more!
Just weeks after entertaining a plan to save money by making 12th grade optional, lawmakers in the Beehive State are again provoking national controversy. Under a bill that has passed the legislature and awaits signature by the governor, miscarriages that result from an “intentional, knowing, or reckless act” would be treated as illegal abortions, punishable by life in prison. As a response to a single incident in which a woman allegedly paid a man to beat her and induce a miscarriage, has Utah gone too far?
Why is abortion such a battle cry for the religious….is it because they think their god has a pool of souls waiting to be plopped in at the point of every conception….
your not a monster Angie…you aborted a tadpole…
A curious question considering who’s asking it. It isn’t just a “battle cry of a religion”—it’s become atheism’s “holiest” of sacraments.
What a monumentally ignorant statement.
so jcc….please show us your monumental intellect….and just answer my question….why do those that do not support pro choice seem to be more religious….
I think that the reason comes from arrogance and lacks empathy and compassion….
My original post clearly eluded you. “Those that do not support pro choice” (i.e. those who are pro-life) are no more “religious” than you pro-abortion zealots are about preserving your imagined “right.” Unlike you moral relativists (who behave according to your own warped code of “ethics”), those who are pro-life have a clear understanding of the objective, transcendent and immutable morality associated with this barbaric crime.
Amazing. You actually managed to top your previous “monumentally ignorant” assertion.
Geez, the nanny troll is in full tilt – AGAIN.
The sobriquet ‘pro-life’ for the reichwingnuts is really a misnomer – nobody is pro-death, nobody WANTS to abort fetuses, but the woman has the right to chose. Seeing as there’s no such thing as ensoulment of any sort, the life extant has precedence over the life potential.
not sure what your comment is but I think you said you care more about the tadpole than you do about the mother and son….
Try this: it was an answer to your question.
Wrong. First, you’re obviously incapable of distinguishing thinking from emoting. Second, your continued confusion of “tadpole” with a human embryo verifies my assessment of your stupefying ignorance; an embryo is a human being, a spermatozoon is not.
no jcc…you didnt answer the question…your insulting grandstanding is not an answer….using big words to describe that your answer is beyond comprehension is not an answer….
the bible teaches you to care more about a tadpole than that of the mother and son….sorry dude….you dont get it…you are against killing a tadpole because your religion tells you how to think….you have no compassion or empathy…you only have your stupid religion….
you have no compassion and empathy for the mother and son…you know…those are ones that are actual human beings with a track recorded of living….what if the tadpole you want to save because you think your doing god’s work, completely selfish thinking by the way, ends up killing the mother and son….what would you think about your precious embryo then….
See if you can follow this. You asked:
to which I replied,
That was a direct answer to your clumsily worded question but you clearly weren’t capable of comprehending it so I’ll try to simplify it for you. The pro-abortion crowd is as “religious” in their zeal to protect the “right” to abortion as any Christian is about his/her faith in God. Like I said before, abortion has become the holiest of sacraments (i.e. a compulsive religious rite) in the practice of atheism. Your zealous attitude, sensitivity and claim of it being a “right” is wholly consistent with any other “religious” behaviors. Atheism is a religion and abortion proves it.
My apologies. I’ll strive to use smaller words for your benefit in the future.
Wrong (again). The Bible teaches me to care for the weak and defend the defenseless—nowhere does it teach to murder an innocent victim for someone else’s convenience… and there you go again with your astoundingly ignorant use of “tadpole.”
Uh, no dude, your writing clearly indicates that it’s you who doesn’t “get it.”
Oh? So it is killing?
You have no idea who I have compassion for; in fact, your writing strongly indicates that you have no idea of just about anything.
…b-but you just used the word “kill” to describe an abortion—how can you kill something that isn’t alive?
If you’re going to continue sparring with me on this, you’ll need to show up to a gun fight with more than just a knife.
you still didnt answer the question dude
I ask you why are pro-lifers more religious and you counter with they are not more religious….and that both sides have their zealots….although I agree that both have their zealots…I do not agree that both are equal in their faith…
when I say religious….I mean devout faith in jesus, god and bible….I do not mean religious and zealot as the same thing….
so…please try again and please also refrain yourself from hysteria…
Dude, I did. Once again, your question—which did not exclude atheism—was:
and my answer (which you have yet to refute) clearly indicated that those opposed to abortion are not more “religious.”
…WHICH ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION.
You got that right… atheism requires an order of magnitude more faith than Christianity.
But you didn’t make that qualification in your original question. “Religious” is a very broad term.
Pointing out the flaws in your semantics and logic is being “hysterical?”
ok…. thank you
well…I strongly disagree….I dont understand how you came to the conclusion that Pro-Lifers are not more religious than Pro-Choicers….I think it is very obvious….all you have to do is listen to christian broadcasting, fox news, the catholic church, the tea party movement, and wikipedia….
so it is impossible for you to answer my question of why are prolifers more religious when you think that they are not in the first place….
here is a link that supports my claim that pro-lifers are more religious…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-life_movement…..
do you have any links to prove to the contrary….
oppps….here’s a better link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-life_movement
I’d consider myself somewhat pro-choice, but certainly not “solidly.” That said, I disbelieve in souls and consider early zygotes/fetuses simply too incapable to suffer or really be considered much more of a concern than an egg that has failed to implant, a fairly common occurrence afaik. But where to draw the line between what we’d rightfully and morally consider infanticide if the fetus happened to be on the other side of the vagina, seems imo to reveal a bit of the hypocrisy of supporters of late term abortion. Where to properly draw the line prior to viability also seems hazy to me. The “my body, my choice” rhetoric fails for me later in the development, just as it would fail for a premature birth. At a certain point the difference between child/choice comes down to what side of the vagina its on.
Where to draw the line is a very complicated question for me. I think at a certain point in the development the rights of the developing child have to come into consideration weighed against the mother’s rights. For the first term this seems decidedly in the mother’s favor. Beyond that becomes a gray area, and beyond viability seems just as barbaric as infanticide. I may be biased as my brother and sisters were all born extremely premature. It would be difficult for me to dismiss any of them as no different than a cancerous blob.
But that’s my perspective, fwiw, as an atheist who isn’t “solidly” pro-choice, which these days seems to mean a fairly cruel indifference up until a child crowns. I just don’t get the full-blown NARAL activists.
This is just a logical extension of being anti abortion. Manslaughter exists for causing the unintended deaths of others, due to your own negligence, and this is no different. To be honest, I’m kind of glad an anti drug while pregnant (and choosing to carry to term) decision is made, if you want to be an adult, go the full 9 yards. Everyone knows better than to smoke and drink while pregnant. Or race motorcycles. Or et cetera.
Glock 21, nice handle, good to see some other heathens who exercise ALL of their rights
Well, no surprise, Dave. Your website flows at the speed of maple syrup, and the intelectuals regaling us with their wisdom include mxracer. He’s always been one of the star freethinkers. Let me quote:
“This is just a logical extension of being anti abortion.”
I’m left wondering if its an extension of the catholic plan to out breed every other religion by requiring every married couple to have twelve children. I’m wondering if Ratzinger’s plan to ban condoms in Africa is a desperate ploy to mask that pathetic plot to outbreed every other religion. He doesn’t give a damn if they live or die, he needs numbers!!
The catholic church knows you’re are going to fuck. In fact they are counting on it. First they will brainwash the parents, then, if the the children are orphaned, the “god parents” will make sure that those orphans are brainwashed in the church. The plan is so simple and devious.
I’ll bet Mxracer doesn’t even know the ignition timing on his own bike btc. Dick.
NeoWolfe
Neowolfe AKA The One True Freethinker™ – you owe me 4 apologies @ this point.
Also, if you’re going to criticize people’s intellectuality, you need to spell it properly 1st, otherwise, your message goes boomp.
KA,
Who is the one who thinks he’s the “one true free thinker”? The one who keeps his mind open, according to the definition, or the dick who thinks that agnostics and humanists are beneath his enlightened arrogant vision???
NeoWolfe
I think it’d be the cat who apologizes 1st. & I never said nor inferred that last part of the sentence, which is 1 of the 4 apologies you owe me.
Dave, Dave, Dave…what a cowardly, novice way to garner support for taking the life of an innocent human.
It’s been my experience that over 90% of those who call themselves “pro-choice” are anything but “pro-choice”. ESPECIALLY in the atheist community…
Are you “pro-choice” with religion? Are you “pro-choice” in education? Are you “pro-choice” in letting the president decide to attend a prayer breakfast or not?
No…of course you aren’t. Claiming to be “pro-choice” is the easy way out of life…
Phreedm,
Since you seem to support the government making healthcare choices for women you have never met… what healthcare decisions do you trust the government to make for you and your family?
What’s that?
None?
That’s what I thought. Go back to sleep now.
Speaking of life…and being “pro-choice”. How many of you are “pro-choice” when it comes to scientists believing in God? Or in creation?
I did not always embrace these perspectives. As a graduate student in physical chemistry in the 1970s, I was an atheist, finding no reason to postulate the existence of any truths outside of mathematics, physics and chemistry…I had to admit that the science I loved so much was powerless to answer questions such as “What is the meaning of life?” “Why am I here?” “Why does mathematics work, anyway?” “If the universe had a beginning, who created it?” “Why are the physical constants in the universe so finely tuned to allow the possibility of complex life forms?” “Why do humans have a moral sense?” “What happens after we die?”
I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds.
http://www.pallayi.com/2009/05/08/collins-why-this-scientist-believes-in-god/
Do Collins opinions matter as much as Dawkins?
Really, anyone who could take C. S. Lewis seriously is not a serious contender on the philosophical side of anything. Lewis was a dilettante when it came to anything resembling logic, & he was a 3rd rate writer.
Just because you’re smart doesn’t mean you’re not stupid.
…as said by someone who’s clearly incapable of comprehending Lewis’ simple, impeccable logic… but then again, to someone who believes “absolutes exist only in a computer,” this isn’t surprising.
Not according to the a “great” atheist and truly 3rd rate science fiction writer: “C. S. Lewis, author of two of the very few works of space fiction that can be classed as literature -– ‘Out of the Silent Planet’ and ‘Perelandra’.”—A.C. Clarke
…as perceived by someone clearly incapable of comprehending Lewis’ straight-forward, impeccable logic… but then again, to someone who once believed that “absolutes only exist in computers,” this isn’t surprising.
Not according to a “great” atheist and 4th rate science fiction writer: “C.S. Lewis, author of two of the very few works of space fiction that can be classed as literature—’Out of the Silent Planet’ and ‘Perelandra’.”—A.C. Clarke.
HA! I’d ask you if you were kidding, but I know better.
WTF are you talking about?
Obviously it was a personal opinion…something you are clearly incapable of discerning w/your ‘objective reality’ babble.
Oi, way for Utah to go the absolutely wrong way around this. People really need to be willing to talk seriously about abortion because it’s a lose/lose situation no matter how you work it because you’re infringing on the rights of the baby-to-be or the mother or both. That Utah would want to introduce a bill to make it illegal and considered murder to induce a miscarriage on purpose instead of discussing their abortion laws to reach a compromise is absolutely stupefying.
Nicely said, & agreed.
What I don’t understand is if her life was put into danger with the first pregnancy and she was afraid that would happen again why did she not to something about it before she got pregnant a second time?
She had an IUD, does that not count as “doing something?”
Also: do you know how expensive it is to get a tubal ligation? Even if you have health insurance?
Do you know many women under 30, even if they already have one kid, are routinely denied sterilization because they’re “too young?”
A ban on abortion will not prevent abortion.Raising men and women to be good fathers,mothers will.We adults can change culture by setting the example for the next generation.
Democrats who bashed bush extended patriot act this past saturday.Hypocrites, why doesn’t the media talk about that oh thats right they are too busy kissing obamas backside.
KA did israel warn jews to leave area before quake struck in chile?
I dunno – what do the internet rumormills say?
I haven’t seen any claim like that yet but i expect to because after haiti people were claiming we used the haarp project to cause haiti quake.
Here is something of interest chile has pretty good building codes but there are rising complaints of lax enforcement due to building boom.I wonder how we compare with regard to enforcement.Why for example do we build above 11 stories when that is the limit of our ladder trucks[fire dept].
Dave,
It’s your project, but if you don’t shed KA, you are going to alienate every agnostic and humanist.
NeoWolfe
So, share w/the class: when you stormed off in your last tizzy, how many people followed you to that other website? 5? 10? A dozen?
I’m betting zero.
It’s your project, but if you don’t shed
KANeoWolfe, you are going to alienate everyagnostic and humanistatheist.There, fixed that for ya, honey-buns. Now scurry on back to your freethunker buddies, eh?
Nice 1.
Apparently Neo-cub can’t be bothered by responding to us mere mortals.
would i be incorrect in saying that pro-lifers are by majority religiously motivated and that is what causes us atheist to become so irritated with the idea in general, would i also be incorrect in saying that there can be some rational explaination for being pro-life, question where do we officailly draw the line between fetus and person, between able to supprt life on its own and needing the body of tyhe mother to live, another question how many of us pro-choicers have children, i have a son he is 1 and before his birth abortion was a completely rational decision to me, but now… fueled by emotion completley though this may be but i do need someone to answer the question where is this line going to be drawn, and also why only the mothers choice and the father gets no say in the matter at all?
I think abortion is an evil catch 22. And I would like to put this to any person, even Xtians and JCC.
Nobody likes abortion. Nobody wants abortion. What many want is the right to choose.
Atheists don’t as a whole support this. And I don’t believe that 90% really support abortion, but believe a woman should have a choice, just like she has the choice of the man. She doesn’t know whether a man is going to turn out good or bad.
We do know the religious support murder and often do it publicly and indirectly.
Conservatives often support evil reprisal in response to breaking the law, but then at the same time, don’t support birth control of any sort, yet will allow people who don’t have a chance, be born into a world that is intolerable of them. JCC, come up with an answer that doesn’t use hatred, bigotry, racism or self-righteous hypocrisy and ambiguity.
I would inspire us all to come up with a good solution for this issue, but no matter what liberals and thinkers come up with, conservatives and the religious will never agree. This is essentially what congress has become.
We need to have a world free from tyranny and evil and that starts with people accepting each other. This country was made with a separation of church and state for a reason. JCC, what if atheism was suddenly declared a religion and then made the law? Even atheists wouldn’t like it. Because freedom is truly the core of most atheists.
Freedom of all sorts.
Let’s work together on this. My mother died when I was a child because she wouldn’t practice birth control. What an awful place that has left my whole family for all of our lives. What if that was you?
Your run-up to that request was kinda all over the board; I’ll be happy to answer any question you have of me, but would you mind restating all that a little more succinctly?
Atheism, by definition, IS a religion—it is inarguably a belief system about the existence of God and those practicing it have been incrementally making it law by slowing outlawing the free practice of its biggest competition—Christianity. Their success in doing so has been precisely because they operate under the guise of it not being an organized belief system (i.e. a religion) and the American public has yet to open its eyes to it.
Au contraire—they revel in it; they celebrate it; they take pride in the fact that they have declared war on Christianity by successfully pulling the wool over the eyes of the American public and have rammed their religious agenda down our throats under the pretense of it being merely a “secular” one.
I beg to differ—it’s exactly the opposite: atheism, now that it has been promulgated into law, is the purest form of fascism humans have ever devised. Legalized abortion is the greatest example of this: it intentionally deprives an innocent human being his/her God-given freedom to live and it purposefully denies any rights of the father. “Hate” crimes legislation is another huge abrogation of our First Amendment freedoms by atheists because it punishes not what was physically done, but what was presumed to be thought at the time. Atheism doesn’t foster freedom—it intentionally destroys it by breeding tyranny of the most pernicious kind.
wow…..I didnt realize my crazy atheist ideas was a religion….those crazy far-fetched ideas like…snakes cant talk, supernatural beings dont impregnate human beings…seas cant be magically parted….women was not created from mans rib and so on….no one has a special place to go to after death….no one is having a discussion with a super natural being…man what crazy beliefs I have….
I wouldn’t assume that 90% of atheists are pro-choice. Conception is the most scientifically valid point in time to say that a new animal has begun life, even if the vast majority of those fertilized eggs naturally abort.
What I can’t figure out are the non-scientific/philosophical reasons the religious right opposes abortion. I suppose they link it to promiscuity or the thwarting of gawd’s plan. “Christian Scientists” oppose medical care for the later reason.