Tomorrow is not a holiday, but it’s treated as one. The next day IS a holiday, but it shouldn’t be one.
For this subject, I know I am preaching to the choir (pun intended), but Christmas is one problematic holiday, because it’s a religious holiday that is also a national holiday. I am convinced that this is illegal. If we are a nation of all belief systems, like president Obama say we are, then no religious holiday should be forcibly inflicted on everyone. Yes, I said forced, for we all must observe Christmas whether we want to or not. The government, banks, stock market, and most stores are all closed. There is no mail. There is nothing to do (except eat Chinese food). For those of us who choose not to celebrate this holiday for whatever reason, Christmas is a grim reminder of just how much power Christianity has over all our lives.
No other religious holiday has such power. Can you imagine if the government closed for Passover, or if you were FORCED to take a day off from work for Eid al-Adha? The outrage would be palpable. Yet here we are, celebrating the Christian holiday of Christmas (as opposed to the other seasonal holidays like the solstice) en masse, as a country, like it or not.
The natural outcome of this policy is that some will choose to celebrate what they like, namely the nonreligious aspects of the holiday: Santa Claus and gifts. These aspects are magnified because they appeal to a larger audience, and over about 200 years these aspects nearly eclipse the religious components. Religious Christians HATE this, so they complain about losing the “true meaning” of Christmas. Placing the origins of the holiday aside for a moment, they are right. The meaning of their holiday is muted severely.
Note this has not happened in the slightest bit with any other religious holiday, with the exception of Easter, which is celebrated in a similar fashion.
Christians wanted Christmas to be a national holiday so they can force the observance onto everyone else, but the strategy backfired and they lost their holiday’s solemnity. The fact that Christmas merges church and state by being a religious holiday AND a national holiday has become a negative force for non-adherents and adherents alike. The parallels are endless.
This is not brain surgery, and the solution is clear: Christmas should not be a federal holiday. It needs to be a religious holiday ONLY, so Christians can have it as they see fit, and everyone else can do what they want. It all comes back to the benefits of the separation of church and state.
I completely agree Dave of course. It’s patently unconstitutional and the country’s founders would be dismayed to see this as a Federal holiday.
I’d substitute Charles Darwin’s birthday in February in recognition of the advance of scientific analysis over superstition.
A second choice would be to designate a Winter Solstice holiday on each December 21st. At least sun worship has a basic logic to it. Christians could pretend; something they’re used to doing anyway.
I’ll be taking my dirt nap before either happens regrettably.
On DECEMBER 24, 1946, lighting the National Christmas Tree, President
Truman said:
“Our…hopes of future years turn to a little town in the hills of
Judea where on a winter’s night two thousand years ago the prophecy
of Isaiah was fulfilled. Shepherds keeping watch by night over their
flock heard the glad tidings of great joy from the angels of the Lord
singing,
‘Glory to God in the Highest and on Earth, peace, good will toward
men.’”
President Truman continued:
“If we will accept it, the star of faith will guide us into the place
of peace as it did the shepherds on that day of Christ’s birth long
ago…
Through all the centuries, history has vindicated His teaching.”
Truman concluded:
“In this great country of ours has been demonstrated the fundamental
unity of Christianity and democracy.”
You can preach to the choir all you want, tell a lie over and over again about the “myth” being reality. Unfortunately for your side, Truth trumps the lie…
To phreedm
You quoted:
Our…hopes of future years turn to a little town in the hills of
Judea where on a winter’s night two thousand years ago the prophecy
of Isaiah was fulfilled.
The virgin birth prophecy of Isaiah was not fulfilled by Jesus President Truman lied.
Isaiah 7:10 Moreover the Lord spake again unto Ahaz, saying, Is 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. Is 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord. Isaiah 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Isa. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isa. 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isaiah 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. Isa. 7:17 The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and upon thy father’s house, days that have not come from the day that Ephraim departed from Judah; even the king of Assyria.
Isaiah 7:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a man shall nourish a young cow, and two sheep; Isaiah 7:22 And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land.
These are the prophecies dealing with the virgin birth of Christ. Did Christ eat butter and honey? The new testament makes no mention of this. It also says that two kings would die before the time that Christ would know to refuse evil, and they say that everyone left in the land would eat butter and honey. For this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all parts of it must have happened.
And this prophecy was intended as a sign of God to Ahaz what good would such a sign be to Ahaz if the sign was given 500 or so years after his death.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: Isa. 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; Isa. 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear sof the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. Isa. 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Christians claim these verses as being representative of Jesus and yet not one of these verifications of Gods chosen one was fulfilled by Jesus.
Not true…perhaps you should study prophecy a bit more before you make such statements.
Luke 4
14Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15He taught in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.
16He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. 17The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18″The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor….21 “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
There was a reason why Jesus stopped midway through the entire prophecy…
To phreedm
Gee I guess you missed the whole, the bible lies, the Christian priesthood lies, the Christian church lies, and Christians lie. I will endeavor to be more thorough next time in documenting the lies. But I do not see how your post in any way invalidates the posted virgin birth lies. Jesus’ birth in no way fulfills the requirements set forth by the prophecy your post in no way invalidates my post.
To phreedm
Thank you for helping me to show another false prophecy and bible passage to be false.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Lu 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. Lu 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
The first thing I notice in Luke is that the word, God, is not used. In Isaiah the word God is used twice. Luke also talks about the blind recovering their sight, this is not mentioned in Isaiah. Also Luke rewrites the prophecy, which is of course not unusual to the lying apostles. Isaiah says the anointed one was to proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. Did this happen of course not. Also the Anointed one was to proclaim the day of Gods vengeance which Jesus did not do.
Luke says to preach deliverance to the captives, to set at liberty them that are bruised, Which is not the same as Isaiah which says to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isaiah 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. Is 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord; men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isaiah 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. Is 61:8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
Does any of these things sound familiar of course not for non of these things occurred.
Christmas is jan7.Dec25 is day to celebrate birth of our lord mithras.You can be on the side of light[jesus,mithras] or the side of darkness[islam,talmudic judaism] but you must choose a side in this cosmic battle between good and evil.Educate yourselves read the sage Zoroaster.
How do you explain the rapid development of human race civilized in less than 100,000 years.Only advanced beings could speed up the process that does not make them gods though.Cern and other projects will start to give us insight into nature of universe.The possiblities fill one with awe and wonder.
Great post and thank you for that. You are correct. Best to you and all others who visit and may 010 be better than ’09.
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right on Dave
has anyone noticed that there seems to be an extra effort in christian media to say merry christmas this year….
I can only ridicule this completely unverifiable claim that a supernatural being got a human being pregnant….
fu christians….leave the winter solstice alone
Celebrating a God who rapes a 12 or 13 year old girl just so he could knock her up and she could then become the mother of the God who raped her. Yep makes sense to me.
Just where does it say god raped mary?
Just where does it say where mary consented?
To reason
If I am not mistaken having sex with a girl under the age of 18 in some states down to 14 years old in others is considered rape. Statutory Rape which if I am not mistaken a Christian backed law. At the time in history when Mary got knocked up marrying age was at the beginning of her period. Which was between 12 and 14 years old so this means that God raped Mary whether Mary consented or not.
If having sex with a girl under 18 years old can be considered a felony, a crime and a sin then how can it be divine when the Christian God knocks up a 12 or 13 year old and yet his followers would put a man in Jail for years for simply having sex with a girl under 18 years old let alone for knocking her up in which case the easiest way for the man to stay out of jail is to marry the girl.
Mark
The bible says a virgin shall be with child[jesus]. Mithras was also born of a virgin on Dec 25.
To Reason
The Bible lies, The Christian Priesthood lies the Christian Churches lie. I could care less if the Bible claimed that Santa Claus was born on Dec 25. The bible is not divine knowledge nor is it divine guidance.
Some critics claim that Christianity borrowed from the traditions of Mithraism as a means of attracting followers, though these allegedly adopted Mithraic traditions were not actually authentic to Jesus. I believe it is safe to say that, on the basis of historical scholarship done by secular, Christian and Mithraic-oriented scholars, this claim is thoroughly without serious basis.
Like Jesus, Mithras was born of a virgin on December 25th in a cave. His birth was also attended by shepherds.
Many Christians are well aware that there is no Biblical basis for setting the date of the birth of Jesus on December 25th. History shows that this date was introduced as significant to Christ later by the post-apostolic church, no doubt influenced by the multiplicity of sacred festivals occurring at this time. According to Mithraic tradition, Mithras was not born of a virgin in a cave. In fact, Mithras was said to have been born, fully grown, from solid rock; the event leaving a cavity behind. There was no mention of a virgin. Interestingly, the story continues to describe Mithras being helped out of the rock by shepherds, who offer him a pick from their flock. Yet according to Mithraic tradition, Mithras was created prior to the creation of mankind. Consequently, the Mithraic “shepherds” cannot be legitimately compared to those of the Christian tradition. Lastly, the earliest existing record of this narrative is from around 100 years after the manuscripts of the New Testament, leaving no room for claims that the Christian tradition copied the story and attributed it to Jesus. (Note also that the later Persian Mithraic traditions recount his conception through the incestual copulation of the god Ahura-Mazda and his mother. The Christian virgin birth story is principally concerned with the humanity of Mary and God’s role in the creation of Jesus through her. There is no parallel between this and the Mithraic story.)
http://christopherbutler.wordpress.com/2006/10/07/jesus-is-not-a-mithras-redux/
Phreddy actually got something right. Will blunders never cease?
Theiests:Why not worship Mithras? There’s the same amount of evidence to validate it’s existance. What makes you pick the bastard god of the Hebrews?
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This country was founded on ideals of separation of church and state and all we see is a Christian paw in politics and economics – deciding health care, education and more. This country was founded on ideals of freedoms of thought and speech and choice. Why is it then that people freak and treat us as “terrorists” then for not being Christian and not standing with a flag with words of god. I could go on. I complained several times about Christmas decor in public places, clerks insisting I have a Merry Christmas and music blaring in public places – colleges too.
Christians are forcing us all to have this holiday, which is not a religious holiday to begin with. They tore up the Pagans and created this on their own. Well, fine, for one – the actual history needs to be put out there and for another thing this is NOT a federal holiday!
Let’s go for Darwin’s birthday!!! Let’s also demand forced time off and closures all the way to the federal level for all religious holidays of all religions in this nation!!!!
Then we might finally see some real change and some much needed relief for those of us who are shunned and ostracized over some stolen and created Christian holiday that we do not support!
Thanks for this site and continued efforts.. and certainly this blog!
djj1 says:
No…it was founded on the principle that our “Rights” originate from the Creator and not the state.
Whew…I’m glad of that. I guess I should expect mail tomorrow.
YEAH! Wait. The only “religious holiday” that the Federal government recognizes is Christmas. A major Christian holiday. Wow…now how did it happen that happen in a “secular” nation? I love how hatred from the left reveals Truths…
Because of the fact that the shepherds were grazing their sheep on the high hillsides, according to the story, bible historians estimate the birth of Jesus to be early October. The fact that it is celebrated at the winter solstice is a move of convenience by the catholic church to absorb pagan cultures conquered by the Romans. The same is true of Easter. The burning of the Yule log was a pagan orgy, and the rabbit and the egg were symbols of fertility. The evergreen tree was a symbol of life surviving winter.
Dave says christmas is a christian holiday, but nothing is further from the truth. Idiot christians may believe that, but that’s not surprising since they also believe that the war of good and evil are playing out on an insignificant piece of dust called earth. It might be entertaining if it weren’t so pathetic.
And I’m not disageeing with Dave on the subject of separation of church and state, what I’m saying is that religion is so corrupt that it will compromise it’s own teachings in the name of political power. That is, except for science, they will adopt pagan holidays and phalic symbols, but they will not admit that the universe is billions of years old. It’s like a cross section of the world that is voluntarily retarded. Unbelievable.
NeoWolfe
You are unbelievable.There is a war between good and evil,[good]communism,atheism v [evil]capitalism,religion.
It is YOU who are unbelievable! Communism,atheism,capitalism,and religion have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER and they NEVER have!
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I honestly feel Christmas is as much an American holiday as Thanksgiving or July 4th. Because it’s been integrated into our lives, and because there is more than enough secular variety to it (and alternate celebrations to enjoy as well that can easily replace it) I have no problem with it. For better or worse, Christianity held the power since America was founded, and America’s Christmas has evolved to such a point that Christmas by any other name would still be the same celebration, family, gifts, and a day off for everyone we enjoy now (well, most people anyways lol). I have no problem ignoring the Jesus parts, and it’s only really a Christian related holiday by name only these days =P
as long as my life is dictated by Christian values politically and economically and as long as I can not have the truth about Dec 25th put forth and then removed as a federal day of closure, I will never conform in any way and accept this crap! This is why I have to contact ACLU often too. I have lost jobs and friends because I do not and will not subscribe to Christian views politically or religiously – I refuse to acknowledge a flag that represents Christian Imperial Terror both in the US from the day it was founded… and this is NOT America — It is the United States and people are United Statsians…… and it is the culture of the United States — there is no American culture — too many countries in the Americas so many different cultures. Anyhow, as long as there is no true freedom of thought, choice, or speech and the flag is emblazened with a cross and bible – I will continue to fight against such symbolism and fight for true rights. December 25th is just a symbol of Christian Imperial terror over the Pagans and now all must suffer for it!
Hate the label, not the season. And I honestly have no clue what you’re talking about regarding a biblical or christian flag…
And there is an American culture. It’s one of self reliance, consumerism, and the knowledge that you can do things in this country that you couldn’t in others because of its grand ideals and what the constitution represents and demands.
here,s hitchens chomping on 5 theologians with humor, wit and vigor….
I couldnt stomach too much from the clergy….same dumb evangelical intelligent designer bullshit….so I had to fast forward to hitchens a lot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0aoH5QJO0s&feature=PlayList&p=312705A7BBAFA6FB&index=0&playnext=1
Dave,
It started to sound like your conclusion was that more religious holidays should become government-mandated holidays so that their religious significance can be diluted. However, your stated point is quite the opposite – that govt. should not mandate religious holidays.
But if mandating religious holidays co-opts those holidays, or makes them more secular and about non-religious things, then would the opposite occur if they weren’t mandated? Would religion grow stronger if they became purely religious festivals, ignored by government?
Xmas is a good reminder that religions only die when they are co-opted by something else. That was the case for the European pagan religions that Christianity co-opted 1500 years ago by co-opting Yuletide with Xmas. Thus, there is something to be said for a secular celebration of gifts, family, decoration, and remembrance in the otherwise depressing depths of winter. For one, it is immediately rewarding, and as a bonus it slowly erodes religion.
Over time, these secular celebrations have grown at the expense of the old practice of going to church for a lecture about guilt, self-loathing, and human weakness. No surprise there. As Atheists continue to develop their own mid-winter celebration traditions, the world is wide open to a better holiday plan, government sponsored or not.
Thesis –> antithesis –> synthesis
I also do not support Capitalistic greed. so religion and that both need to go… as long as the TV and every city, town, etc.. and every store promote religious greetings and decor …… as do schools…. I am in favor of killing off any public display.
Capitalism is the only moral economic system, all other forms are government theft and limits on freedom.
Where in the world did you get the idea that private theft and limits on freedom are any more moral than government theft and limits on freedom?
Capitalism was great to push us through the industrial revolution, but private corporations have since 1913 gained control of the banking system and now in many regards our government. Soon, private corporations will completely control the U.S. via international law.
Capitalism has bred a society filled with GREED and WASTE. Why would corporations care about ‘the greater good’ of mankind and the planet when they can simply dump waste into our rivers and lakes to cut spending and reap in larger profits? Why should we use OIL, a finite resource, in paper, when we can use paper completely made out of hemp of much greater quality and sold at a much cheaper price? (Oil + logging companies pushed to illegalize hemp to increase the demand for oil and wood) – These are just a few examples of how capitalism has been detrimental to society and our planet ALL in the name of money.
The Capitalist system is the best. It is not perfect, the perfect system would be socialism, but that requires perfect humans. Until perfect humans come along, capitalism will have to do as it feeds the greed.
As long as humans are greedy, capitalism can never be trustworthy. People have to be watched, and only government can do that.
NotSoFast says:
So very true…there aren’t any humans that run government.
Sadly NSF’s comments reflect a generational view from our youth being brainwashed into believing that government has all of the answers and is superior in their moral makeup over private companies…
The word holiday, holy day, seems more secular than ever, as there are non-religious “holidays” like Columbus day, Fourth of July.
Happy Solstice everyone!
Columbus Day should not even exist.. nor Thanksgiving. These only celebrate imperialism and genocide.
If columbus was nonwhite,nonchristian i bet you would have no problem with columbus day or thanksgiving.
Columbus day should not be because the Vikings, Templar’s and Chinese all found America before Columbus did.
Columbus Day is the celebration of a mass murderer. Race, creed, and ethnicity is irrelevant. Christobal Colon’s treatment of the Tianos appalled even his own son. Perhaps we should also celebrate Hitler Day!
Just because someone came by earlier, does not mean that eveyone knew America was here. For the Europeans, Columbus found it.
What do the Europeans have to do with anything? The ones who had any business being here knew about it from their first arrival: The Indians.
I’m too sleepy to stay here till midnite, so I’ll say Merry Xmas now.
A very wicked Winterval to y’all, BTW.
pat robertson is poisoning and frightening 5 year olds on his 700 club bullshit show today…..let us all pray that he gets hit buy a bus very soon….
And if that doesn’t work, let’s drag him to the edge of the world and toss him over.
here’s hitchens trying to debate the constitutionality of christmas with a less then generous host….scarborough is the host and at one point hitchens says, “dont invite me on to listen to a front man for Jerry Foulsmell, you invite me on for my opinion” ….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXDX966pnRU
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Dave,
Good point(s) in your post that started this tread.
Having been retired for several years, I pay little or no attention to holidays, government sanctioned or not. And I pay even less attention to the ravings of the religious lunatics. Political lunatics are almost as, well – looney, and when the two are combined it produces utter nonsense.