CHRISTMAS – Christianity is not the first, nor even the tenth religion to co-opt the Winter Solstice as their own holiday. For example, the Pagan festival of Yule (as in ‘Yuletide’) was a celebrated winter event centuries before Jesus’ alleged birth. Indeed, nearly every tradition currently associated with Christmas has non-Christian roots. As an educational organization, American Atheists urges all Christians to ask their ministers why December 25 was chosen to celebrate Jesus’ birth (enjoy the hemming and hawing).
WINTER SOLSTICE – the celestial event that started it all has been measured and celebrated since man first looked up. The solstice affects all life on earth, and the human traditions surrounding it are rich and plentiful. While Christmas is a Christian holiday, the Solstice is the real ‘reason for the season’, and it belongs to everyone.
A small, well-funded, and vocal minority of Christians are unhappy with the fact that their holiday has not totally eclipsed all others. They want all other celebrations squashed out, in an effort to make the season uniquely Christian, and organize protests and boycotts against any company which promotes an all-encompassing tolerant attitude (“Happy Holidays” vs “Merry Christmas”). American Atheists acknowledges that such views are only shared by an ignorant and bigoted minority of Christians, but at the same time we look to the more tolerant Christians to quell this attitude. As it is with Islam, the health and growth of Christianity depends on those within the church.
Atheists and others who demand strict separation of church and state seek only to prevent government agents from deciding, for anyone, whether or how to celebrate the season. The multitude of seasonal celebrations underscores the importance of the government’s neutrality.
To those who celebrate America’s diversity, we extend our heartfelt wishes for a wonderful season. To those who selfishly try to claim the whole season as their own, we wish a lousy one.
There’ll be no “hemming and hawing,” because it’s a well known fact that December 25th was chosen by the Church as a well thought-out and brilliantly executed marketing strategy for a population already open to religion. Really Dave, I thought of all people, you would’ve known better…
…and the hits just keep on coming… Really Dave, if you’re gonna keep whining about Christians, don’t ya at least think you’d try to get your facts straight first?
“Squashed out?” This just gets funnier and funnier…
Ah Dave, your colossal ignorance/arrogance is staggering.
…and American Christians acknowledge that such bigoted attacks on them from benighted atheists will not deter them in defending their right to celebrate their faith in both public and private.
“Tolerant Christians?”—would they be sorta like “tolerant atheists?”
Yes, to hell with doctrine, the success of a “religion” lives or dies by how tolerant it adherents are… What monumental ignorance of those you despise.
Hogwash… you’ve mounted a well-funded and coordinated all-out offensive to ultimately outlaw the practice of Christianity in this country.
Yeah right, but you know as well as I do that after years of secular, atheistic influence, our government actively pursues a policy of discrimination, singularly against Christians.
Real mature of ya there Dave. I wish you a joyous Christmas season and pray that God puts someone in your life to open your tightly shut eyes to His truth.
jccsays:
>Hogwash… you’ve mounted a well-funded and coordinated all-out offensive to ultimately outlaw the
>practice of Christianity in this country.
How did you find out?!?!?
I bet you don’t know what the punishment will be for those caught still practicing Christianity once our Satanic Negro President from Kenya signs the new bill into law. Forced gay marriage!!!!
This might be a good time for you to invest in some sexy underthings, jcc.
jcc
I agree doctrine is important for the health of a religion.Yet i wonder how many know the doctrine,bylaws of their house of worship.If we judge by conduct most don’t know or seem to care.
Why did the gov’t choose christmas and not easter for a holiday? And is it right to show preference to catholic/protestant christmas over eastern orthodox?
Dave is right that the season is big enough for all and not the exclusive domain of one faith.
Outlaw practice of christianity now that is hogwash.And you know it so don’t peddle that nonsense here, your private life,money,property is your business.
JCC, why do you troll here? That entire post was nothing but inflammatory, filled with expressions of your faith as if because of it you’re superior to us, and then somehow seem to think you’re the moral one here, you’re not the bigoted one here, you’re not the irrational one here, when every word you type is in the deepest of contempt against your target. If you’re trying to stir up debate, all you’ve managed to do is show everyone exactly what an ad hominem attack is.
Seriously… why do you come to these blogs when you’re so hopelessly opposed to the view points in them that you feel you constantly have to project upon anyone within whom you take the slightest, most minuscule perceived offenses from?
I don’t “troll.” I’ve been posting on this blog for 4 ½ years. And as for why I do: to tweak people like you.
Oh, and Silverman’s opening salvo was nothing but warm-and-fuzzies for his “target?”
Oh right, my posts are just dripping with schoolyard name-calling—while Silverman would never dream of stooping to such a thing.
“And as for why I do: to tweak people like you.”
There’s the definition of trolling. Purposely instigating negativity, disdain, and flames. The premeditated desire to insinuate and take pleasure in the emotional responses of others to your initial intentionally offensive remarks.
“I don’t “troll.” I’ve been posting on this blog for 4 ½ years.”
And that’s the sentence you wrote prior. So now you’re lying. Nevermind the hypocrisy behind these responses to begin with as if your perceived offenses made by the blog poster gives you the right to explicitly and proudly offend everyone who isn’t completely in agreement with you.
I couldn’t care less about how long you’ve been here. Truth of the matter is that you’re trolling and flatly admitted to it after claiming you don’t. You’ve clearly taken offense from this blog, but why? If it isn’t targeting you with the descriptors used to express the writer’s observations, why get angry? Unless… you’re exactly the kind of person he is talking about?
Sounds like you aren’t here just to troll. You also appear to be a masochist since you seem to enjoy pissing yourself off at the opinions of others.
Personally, I enjoy Jcc’s input, simply because it adds more pizzazz to the response column. I mean, even if he’s spouting ignorant, bigoted, purely mean-spirited, apathy-ridden comments, at least it brings life into the debate. It’s also kind of humorous to listen to his arguments. They aren’t even really that, they’re just regurgitations of hard-wired responses that have no actual factual or reasonable logic behind them. He just posts them to get responses like the one I’m treating him to now. Either way, there’s more of US on this site anyway, so, let him say what he will, we know what we believe and what he doesn’t, so, we’ll call him out on it.
I find it amusing how singularly close minded you sound in response to something you see as close minded. It doesn’t quite make sense. I suppose it all depends on your perspective on an issue. Best of luck to you in your obviously tolerance-promoting journey. Merry Solstice to you and to all the religious Right.
Really people, if you stop responding to the Ghost of Christianity’s Past, maybe he’ll go Scrooge somewhere else.
(I know it’s hard not to, he spews some monumentally ignorant nonsense, but at least try…)
To JCC
The differing Atheist Groups are a lot like the NRA, they do not know how to play hard ball. Both groups are under the false belief that just because they are right they will eventually win. Neither Group truly understand the depth of fanaticism that they face in their opponents. If the Atheist Groups were actually willing to play hard ball and go toe to toe with them they would hire people to stand on street corners 5 days a week to burn or shred bibles.
I would gladly take that job, they would post billboards stating clearly that the Bible lies, that the Christian Religion is built upon those lies. That there is no difference between the human dictators of the past and present and the dictatorial beliefs in Jesus, Allah and Jehovah. They would take every advantage of every priest, reverend, pastor, father who molests, steals, embezzles, hires a prostitute or fornicates outside of marriage to tear at and destroy any and all credibility that the Christian religion has.
Neither you nor the Atheist Groups have any idea what true hard ball is or how it is played. You have nothing to worry about JCC, in the end the best that the Atheist Groups can hope for is a mere stalemate. It will be 10 years or more too undue the damage done by Bush the Son, if Obama looses reelection which is becoming more likely as the Republican/Christian war machine kicks into full Righteous frenzy with their Tea Parties and anti Obama rhetoric.
Your just lucky that I have not won the Mega Million lottery, I would spend the bulk of it waging a burned earth holy war against Christianity, and enjoy every minute of it. Like I said you have no idea or clue as to what playing hard ball is. Unfortunately for me and the world at large it is unlikely that the Atheist or Homosexual groups will ever commit to playing hard ball with Christianity.
The only real hope that I have is that Christians burn for eternity in the Hell that they have created for others. If God or Gods are just they will.
Could you tell me what exactly is a “dictatorial” belief in Jesus?
If that was all it took, Christianity wouldn’t have made it past the resurrection… Surely you’re not that naïve.
On second thought, you are that naïve.
I have no idea what that’s supposed to mean.
“Too Undue?”…and you’ve supposedly written a book?–where’d you get it published, Elbonia? But what specific “damage” are you referring to?
Why would I personally be lucky?
So let me get this straight… OBL, despite his personal fortune of at least $300 million and his army of al qaeda buffoons could only manage to murder 3000 “infidels,” but you think by winning an $80 million PowerBall, you can do what he couldn’t, all by yourself?
I bet you like pulling the wings off flies, huh?
…and you, apparently, just have no clue—period.
You and reality don’t seem to play well with each other.
Tell me again which god or gods you do believe in?
To JCC
There is no difference between any dictator who says obey me or die and any God or Gods who say obey me or die. The only difference between God/Jesus and any of the other dictators is that God/Jesus claims that not only will you die but you will also suffer eternal torment while burning in the fires of Hell. So actually God/Jesus would be the top of the pyramid when it comes to monstrous dictators. I do see the difference between the so called God/Jesus and Jesus the man, Jesus the man actually seems to have been a very intelligent and a man of God. God/Jesus though is a monster that I wish Satan had never created.
Challenging Christian authority and righteousness can easily be done, through the sins and crimes committed by those claiming divine authority and knowledge. All of these people claimed to have been guided by their God, other Christians acknowledged that these were men of God, and these men were pedophiles, thieves, substance abusers, homosexuals who were condemning homosexuals, pedophiles claiming divine authority while diddling little boys or girls. If one Judges the God/Jesus based upon his followers, which are the only evidence available by which one may know this God/Jesus, the obvious conclusion is that the God/Jesus Sucks.
The best that the Atheists can hope for is to maintain the status quo. Christianity is not going to be outlawed, it is not going away, it’s authority is not going to be diminished, hopefully it will not be increased but it is not going to be decreased. Bush the Son appointed Judges based upon their fanatical Christian beliefs not upon their legal knowledge or experience but because they are willing to do anything to push the Christian agenda into secular law. It may take as long as decade to get right of these abominations.
Actually I meant Christianity in general is lucky that I do not have the resources needed to tear into the Christian religion as I would like to, not that you personally are lucky. As for OBL he probably would not mind killing off every Christian on the face of the earth, I on the other hand simply would love to destroy the very foundation upon which they hang their claims to righteousness. Which is easy enough to do when you use the Christian bible to do it. Invalidate the Bible and you invalidate the beliefs of those who use it to support their claims of divine knowledge and authority.
No I would not get any pleasure from pulling wings off of fly’s if a fly annoys me I would simply swat it, pulling the wings off of a blood sucker mosquito as it is sucking my blood, might be interesting though I usually just swat them as well. Now pulling the wings off of a 2000 year old Blood sucking vampire bat, who’s very existence has caused more blood shed and evil then any other source in the history of mankind, now that I believe I would enjoy.
And of which “God” would that be?
So just like virtually every other atheist here, your brilliant analysis leads you to the conclusion that the value of the message is only as good as the messengers… and the only way to know God is by the example of his followers?
…yet.
You’re right, God’s authority, by definition, cannot be diminished.
Oh right, not one of his nominees had the slightest “legal knowledge or experience.” Here’s a thought: have you ever considered that you’re a detached-from-reality “fanatic?”
So, you honestly think that little ol’ you really could destroy the most populous belief system on the planet?
Your naïveté is boundless.
For someone on the outside looking in, like you, that seems plausible but unfortunately, the truth is that the historic figure of Jesus Christ validates the Bible, not the other way around.
But from all your past bluster, it sounded as thought you were sympathetic to atheism…?
Jesus probably knew the same God or Gods that had relationships with Buddha, Gandhi, and Malcolm X (after Mecca), much of their teachings and advice are identical, personal responsibility, social responsibility which leads me to accept that they were all men of God whether one God or multiple Gods I have no idea.
Of course when one has a God who plays hide and go seek, the only way to measure such a God is through the followers of that God. Hitler could be judge by those who supported and followed even if there was no information available on Hitler himself, all one would have to do is look to his followers and they would know who and what Hitler was. And if one wishes to know who and what Allah or Jehovah are like when Allah or Jehovah give no evidence of their reality one only has to look to their followers to know who and what Allah and Jehovah are, short answer monsters.
God’s authority my Aunt Annie’s fanny, Christian authority is not likely to be diminished because of centuries of brain washing and murdering dissenters and non Christians theists alike, they are well entrenched and have a massive power base to fight from. If any real God actually support Christianity it would not have the bloody history behind it and it would have no other religious competition except those also supported by a for real God. Christian history shows beyond a doubt that no God backs or supports them, Satan most likely is the father of all organized religions but that is about it.
His appointees had legal experience and backgrounds, but enough experience and background to be made members of the Supreme Court or Federal Courts not a chance. Only in Bush the Sons wet dreams were his people qualified for those posts.
Of course I could bring down the Christian religion and reduce it to only it’s most fanatical elements. All it takes is the backing, the Christian Bible can be proven to contain lies, the Christian Faith dictates the belief that the Bible is the infallible truth of God. That the Christian claims of authority and knowledge is based upon the lies of a Bible that is proven to contain lies. All it takes is for someone who is willing to go toe to toe with Christianity and prove that they lie.
While the fanatics are fanatics and nothing will shake their beliefs of self importance. The average Christian if faced with someone calling them evil, and calling them the spawns of Satan and telling them that by there very actions they are despising the very teachings and commandments of their own savior and that by doing so they are Satanic. With the lies of the Bible laid bare for all to see and them being called the Satanic liars that they are, most will go back to doing what Jesus wanted them to do. Judge Not, Scorn Not, as they would like others to treat them, they must treat others in that way.
Do no harm to others, most would actually begin living as Jesus told them to and they would no longer be a problem for the Atheists or anyone else. Jesus followers are not a problem, Jesus followers who actually follow and obey the public teachings of Jesus before the Jews, are no threat to anyone, it is Christians who are the threat, it is Christians who want a theological dictatorship on earth it is Christians that Atheists and non Christian theists fear.
Sorry JCC I did not come to my beliefs by looking into Christianity from the outside, I came into my beliefs after a God brought me into the Faith and while I was a Christian trying to figure out what had happened to me. My book was written while I acknowledged myself as a Christian it is because of what I found out while a Christian that I stopped being a Christian the God that touched my soul and proved to me that he/she/it was real, and that the God that had touched my soul could not have had anything to do with the Bible.
Sorry JCC the 2000 year old blood sucking Vampire bat are not Atheists, they do not have even a thousandth of in inch of blood on their hands that Christianity does. I believe that every non Christian Theist should be a member of Atheists United, because their beliefs are the same as mine, no religion should have secular power to enforce their false beliefs and false Gods upon anyone out side of their beliefs. And that protects all non Christian Theists.
“For someone on the outside looking in, like you, that seems plausible but unfortunately, the truth is that the historic figure of Jesus Christ validates the Bible, not the other way around.”
You say that Jesus was a historic figure… and that his existence validates the Bible… what empirical evidence have you to even claim he ever existed? That he isn’t just a figurehead created in the Bible itself to drive the Bible’s stories home with? Btw, by empirical evidence, i mean something that you can PROVE came from him. The Shroud of Turin, for instance, doesn’t count.
The same kind of evidence that you have that Julius Caesar, Aristotle, or Socrates existed–the veracity of the written record.
Again, the same you have about Caesar, Aristotle and Socrates.
Btw, I’m quite familiar with what empirical evidence is–and btw, historic evidence is forensic evidence, which is an entirely different ballgame from empiricism; do your homework.
Sure, so the only thing we’re left with is what eyewitnesses wrote about Him.
To JCC
Or one very imaginative person who was trying to publish a fantasy story.
One? You’re seriously asserting that the Bible was written by one person?
Or more likely a few very manipulative people looking to create or expand their power base.
Yeah, that explains why the vast majority of them were rejected, ostracized and martyred by their peers after they wrote what they did–that’s a real good way to “expand their power base.”
To JCC
Let me see the Catholics murdered Christians by the tens of thousands if not hundred of thousands because these heretics believed in a different form of Christianity and they held to those beliefs even unto death, does the fact that they died willingly because they refused to renounce their beliefs, make their beliefs valid, according to you it does. Or the mass murder of Mormons, who willingly died because they would not renounce their beliefs make those beliefs valid, according to you it does.
People throughout history have died willingly for their beliefs people who refused to renounce their beliefs knowing they would die, do these deaths make those beliefs valid, according to you it does. Jim Jones willingly died for his beliefs as the Jews on Masada committed suicide. David Koresh died for his beliefs and according to you his beliefs are validated because of this.
So according to you anyone of any belief who is willing to die before renouncing their beliefs are validating those beliefs. So if an Atheist refuses at gun point to renounce his/her Atheist beliefs and is killed by a Christian that the Atheists death validates his beliefs. JCC you need to find someone else to play with that is closer to your level of understanding maybe a 4 year old would do.
You wanna back that claim up with some reputable sources?
What “mass murder of Mormons” are you talking about?—the only event returned by Google from searches containing “mass murder” and “Mormons” is the Mountain Meadow massacre of 1857 in which Mormons murdered over 120 non-Mormon men women and children.
Please point out where I said that.
First, nowhere have I ever stated, that “anyone of any belief who is willing to die before renouncing their beliefs are validating those beliefs.” What I did say was that willingness to be martyred for having written parts of the Bible is a real good way to expand their power base. Even a 4 year old could comprehend the clear semantic distinction between what I wrote and your idiotic eisegesis of it. Second, given your demonstrable lack of reading comprehension; inability to formulate properly conjugated and punctuated sentences and irrefutably faulty and deficient knowledge of just about everything, instead of continuing to embarrass yourself with every post you make here, perhaps you should find another blog more aligned with your (ahem) level of sophistication.
To JCC
I will research the Spanish inquisition, witch hunts and other Christian atrocities just as soon as you explain to me how an obvious lie told by the apostles and contained in the bible is not an actual lie but the infallible truth of God.
In Luke they go to Bethlehem to be taxed, Mary has the baby, And there was great fan fare with the shepherds spreading the word abroad. eight days later Jesus is circumcised and after Mary’s purification they went to Jerusalem where Jesus is proclaimed the Christ by Simeon. They then went back home to Nazareth and every year journeyed to Jerusalem for pass over. Verse 42 clearly says this was an ongoing ritual for Jesus was 12 at this time that they went and they had gone every year since his birth.
In Matthew Joseph, Mary and Jesus were in a house in Bethlehem, according to the wise men Jesus should have been around two years old, two years past the taxing recorded in Luke. It was their estimation that Herod used to kill all children under two in Bethlehem and in the coastal cities. Joseph is told to take Mary and Jesus to Egypt until the death of Herod. After the death of Herod, Joseph feared the son of Herod and turned aside into parts of Galilee. Joseph was returning home to Bethlehem in Judea before God told him in a dream to turn aside into Galilee where he came into and dwelt in Nazareth.
Let’s take it from the top, Matthew claims that Herod only found out about the new born king when the wise men showed up. But in Luke the shepherds were spreading the word abroad that the king was born a full two years earlier. No secret there and a big deal was made at the temple in Jerusalem when the infant Jesus was presented, according to Matthew, two year old baby Jesus and family went into Egypt and stayed there until Herod died. According to Luke Baby Jesus and family lived in Nazareth and journeyed to Jerusalem every year for Passover which is where Herod lived according to Matthew Herod wanted Jesus dead so badly that he ordered the killing of all two year olds and younger in Bethlehem. But Jesus visited Jerusalem every year after birth for 12 years
This of course while Luke claims baby Jesus and family were happily living in Nazareth awaiting their next pilgrimage to Jerusalem for Passover while Matthew claims the mass murder of all children 2 years and younger was happening in Bethlehem while baby Jesus and family were in Egypt. These two stories are lies. Neither story has any evidence to back them and they contradict each other they are lies.
Also the claim that a prophecy was full filled by Herod’s killing of the children is a lie.
Matthew 2:17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, Mt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
Jeremiah 31:15 Thus saith the Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not. Jer 31:16 Thus saith the Lord; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. Jer 31:17 And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border.
This is a rule two prophecy, the author of Matthew tried to show that the killing of the children had been prophesied. It had not been, In Jeremiah, 31:16 and 31:17 God says the children would return home. Also the name of the prophet is not Jeremy, and it is Rahel not Rachel
You clear this up and I will begin researching the horrendous atrocities committed by Christians against Christians.
You Said
Yeah, that explains why the vast majority of them were rejected, ostracized and martyred by their peers after they wrote what they did–that’s a real good way to “expand their power base.”
So how many people has the Catholic Church and it’s reformation branches rejected, ostracized and martyred those that they considered heretics. You cannot apply one set of rules to yourself without applying those same rules to anyone meeting the same criteria.
You claim that the suffering and murder of these people validate their beliefs. If that is the case then the suffering and or murder of anyone because of their beliefs validate their beliefs, you cannot claim that the suffering and or murder of saints validates their beliefs and then claim that the same does not also apply to Moslems, Buddhists or anyone else who suffers or is murdered for their beliefs.
Hey you’re the one who claims Divine knowledge and authority. You’re the one who claims to be a true follower of the only true and living God. I am just waiting to actually see the evidence of it.