Today I attended a bar-mitzvah for my wife’s cousin. This service was held in a Reform synagogue, which very liberal and mellow yet theistic. It was the first theistic event I’d attended in abut 5 years.
These are the kind of services I attended as a child. This was the ceremony I performed when I was 13 years old. Those were more-or-less the words I said, under duress.
As I sat there today, watching the people who showed up avoid paying attention, it struck me how empty the place was — perhaps 10% full. Given that most of those who showed up were there for the Bar Mitzvah, I guessed that no-one at all was there for the service itself. No surprise there I guess.
We all know that the principle reason for Bar Mitzvahs and weddings to be held in church is to present the church (synagogue) to potential new members. It’s advertising; “if you don’t come to see our beautiful facility your family will be pissed.” I get it. Nice place.
So I sat there in the back row with my daughter, and we looked at the prayer book and listened to the sermon together. I pointed out each time the Rabbi begged, the idolatry associated with kissing the Torah, and the sales pitch behind the assertion that religious services were necessary for us. My atheist daughter picked up on it all, right away.
They call the service ancient. They call it time-tested. “Passed down from generation to generation”, claimed the rabbi. All true, to some extent (you can say the same for any mythology), but the word that went through my mind wasn’t ancient, it was primitive.
Intelligent people wearing prayer shawls and yamulkes, begging an invisible man in the sky to bless them and their dead relatives. I wanted to scream “Come ON! It’s 2009! we don’t need this kind of bunk anymore.”
I’m glad the pews were nearly empty. I’m glad those who attended were clearly more interested in the party that followed (which ROCKED) than in the content of the service. Finally, I’m glad I am going to live to see the decline of ridiculous theism. Good riddance to yesterday’s silliness.
Back to work.
I am happy that you see the end and decline of superstition ruling our world. I just hope it comes to pass.
With little help from the present AA leadership. Dave Silverman, spokesperson for AA, couldn’t even muster up the courage to extricate himself from this religious event. THE SPOKESPERSON FOR AA COULD NOT EXTRICATE HIMSELF FROM A RELIGIOUS SERVICE! With that kind of leadership AA is doomed.
You must be joking. You did note that he says in the post that it was the 1st service he’s been to in 5 years?
Next we’ll hear that David’s not a ‘True Atheist™’
This seems a little overzealous to me. While I strongly disagree with religion and very much hope to see religious influence on society/politics marginalized as quickly and completely as possible, I see no huge drama in the fact that an atheist attends a family event.
A little over a year ago my grandparents took me out to see a play and have dinner, and the play happened to be “The Miracle”, which is a somewhat nauseating rendition of the Christian “gospel”. I got a good laugh out of the show, and the trip and meal was overall very pleasant.
I love my grandparents, and I enjoy occasionally spending time with them.
I STRONGLY disagree with their religious beliefs, and I’ll answer any questions they have about my philosophy honestly. But to “protest” their invitation because I don’t believe in Christianity would be absurd, in my opinion – this was a social event.
I suspect many anti-religious people attend events and services from time to time so they can socialize with relatives or show support of friends and family. I definitely respect the convictions of those who absolutely would not do so, but to me there’s no foul here.
Giving money or any sort of public/political support to a religious organization or agenda, now that would be a different story altogether…
bigsam,
I am sure you have attended… say… a funeral. Even though some groups tend to have a religious connotation during the ceremonies of such events, being there will not make you religious nor necessarily a supporter of any cult. It is your presence the one, sometimes, requested by some members of your family, friends, work mates, or simply you just want to attend without any request.
(1) I am not a spokesperson for AA.
(2) Dave is.
‘Just because’? Is that the answer to other people’s criticism of your weak points?
I went to my mother’s funeral – that was an arranged religious event for a non-religious woman, by an explicitly non-religious family – WITHOUT my consent. I learned about it @ the same time all the invited attendees did – via email. I was forced to attend. I gave a quick eulogy – in which I stated specifically that I didn’t believe in an afterlife. I said my peace, & marched outta there. Didn’t stick around for the service.
That was February of 2008. I haven’t spoken to anyone in my family since.
This will be the 2nd set of holidays I haven’t spent w/them.
There – do I qualify as a spokesman for AA, by your draconian standards?
KA
Great! I wish the AA spokesperson would behave the same way. But he didn’t. He pussy-foots around all things jewish because his wife is jewish and he still considers himself to be jewish (that’s weird). I understand the special problems that being married to a theist can introduce and I applaud Dave’s commitment to his wife and family but he is a compromised representative for AA.
If it were not for your draconian propensity to censor posts on this site you might qualify to be the AA spokesperson.
No, it’s not great, doofus. It was extremely painful.
It’s not weird – jewish isn’t just a religion.
Because he went to a single bar mitzvah?!?
How old are you? Because you sound about 12 years old right now.
Your lies are unfunny.
Lies? Who is doing the censoring if not you?
I have a hand in moderation, & yes, I’ve banned people from this site. But the claim that I’m ‘ruling w/an iron fist’ is…well, it’s fucking stupid. So the ‘draconian propensity’ part is a lie.
& I’m sick of re-explaining this nonsense every single time. What got his ass banned due to his behavior, not because of the topic, which anyone w/half a brain could see. He had this wild obsession w/Jewry, & thought he was going to rescue AA from itself by compulsively posting about it on EVERY.SINGLE.THREAD. He was asked to behave, he wouldn’t. He was told to stop, he got moderated. He went too far, he got his ass booted.
Too much is sometimes too much, regardless of topic.
Rituals. Now that blind belief has diminished, that’s what all religion should become: rituals. Things done, sometimes without regard as to why they were or are being done.
Speaking of “blind belief”…
Uh-oh, I think little mouse is enamored of thee, DW.
Worst possible punishment is to ignore him.
Or, as the old joke goes:
What’s the difference between a sadist & a masochist?
The masochist says, “Hit me!” The sadist says, “No.”
Be a sadist.
JCC deals in circular arguments, redirecting you into the direction he wishes to proceed, without regard to reality. Like many of the fundamentalists I leave in heaping ashes daily, he too is smoldering. Unlike many, he doesn’t accept or realize it.
Considering that I just demonstrated that about your “argument,” that’s almost as funny (or sad, actually) as saying, “we have reason in an obviously irrational & non-rational universe.”
Uh huh. Now, what was the name Rosita had for this neurosis?—oh yeah, “cognitive bias:
How pathetic that, even after having your “reasoning” head handed to you on a platter, you’re still clueless as to how stupid you sound with come-backs like that.
Real men know when their argument has been destroyed and have the dignity to admit it.
I suppose that makes you…a ‘fake’ man?
I assume you’re speaking to me, little mouse? I did, after all, explain how I manipulated you, so as figurative decapitations go, you should’ve felt a breeze in your esophagus some time ago.
At least there was a party afterwards,ever been to a baptism? If its an infant one you are allowed the privilege of seeing the kid renounce his evil ways by use of a proxy, then after muttering some incantation from the dark ages they pour a few drops of water on the kid, the usual result is the poor thing is so startled it craps itself ( must be the evil coming out).
It never ceases to amaze me that parent will allow some priest to tell them that as they walk into the door of the sacred house of the lord (with a few mortgages)with their child that this child is until the water hits him, a vile filthy thing not worthy of mercy in the eyes of the gods. Amazing.
Oh yea, no party later….shhhesh
and when you go, do you wear the yamulke?
Why?
I did not. They are a symbol of individual submission to God. They gave them out, but I did not take one.
I too look forward to the further marginalization and decline of religion as our society advances. There’s real hope that we could all live to see the bigotry and hate of the major cults (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.) fade into the realm of vaguely recalled tradition.
Give david a break he was making his mrs. happy.At least it wasn’t some expensive store.The more things change the more they stay the same.
It is an old tradition for men to participate in religion to keep a wife happy or from being beheaded,burnt at the stake or stoned to death.
Dave,
Wow, you’re strong. I don’t think I could’ve attended an entire religious service at my old church, without disrupting it at some point. Someday I hope to do that anyway, but just going there to disrupt will be painful.
I’ll try to get it on video… lol
Haha! What idiots!! Trying to boycott businesses because they don’t prance their imaginary friends around exclusively!! What a joke!
Is a yamulke that little beanie thing? It’s a sign of individual submission to gawd? Wouldn’t a brown spot on the nose suffice?
Dave
I thought the whole point of Bar/Bat-mitzvahs was the party and presents! Do you have to attend the ceremony to gain admittance to the party? Don’t some Jews do the whole thing at home, like they do with a briss?
Even though you are a representative of AA, I don’t see anything amiss with attending without donning the trappings of submission. You probably made your wife happy, and exposed your daughter to the silliness of religious ritual. Many of the other attendees were probably thinking the same thoughts as you were: “Blah, blah, blah…let’s get to the party already!”
We all know that the principle reason for Bar Mitzvahs and weddings to be held in church is to present the church (synagogue) to potential new members. It’s advertising; “if you don’t come to see our beautiful facility your family will be pissed.” I get it. Nice place. —
Are you being serious or joking? If you are being serious, then you are just spreading misinformation. The Bar Mitzvah ritual was invented long before there was any cause for synagogues to attract members. If you are claiming to be on the side of rationality, then stick to the facts.