Today marks the launch of the new film 2012, which looks like a promising action flick that capitalizes on the newest doomsday fad. It also marks the official launch of our web page dedicated to fools who think this time’s for realzies.
How many other doomsday fads can you remember? Post them here, and I’ll move them onto our December Fool’s Day page!
I remember Y2K. That was a laugh. Somehow they thought that a messed up date would cause the computer to go ape, despite the fact that computers do only what we program them to. Unless someone programmed them to go nuts when they went back in time, why would they?
The Mayan calendar only goes to 2012. My guess is that the guy making the calendars decided that he had made enough and would just let them make more when they needed them.
If the world ends, it ends. If some major catastrophe like a meteor strike or a crazy solar flare or a polar flip or whatever happens, then we’re all dead. No use stressing out over it. Until we can get off this planet and colonize others, our species is vulnerable to such cosmic-scale events. That’s just the way it is.
My dad got caught up in this, too. He’s easily driven into a fervor by the wrong kinds of people and usually ends up stocking his house with all manner of bullshit.
Every time, he says “better safe than sorry” afterwards, to which I always reply, “except now you’re out all that money and stuck with all of this crap that you will never use… again.”
Nathaniel, I think the Mayan stone writer just run-out of stones or died during the process.
Y2K was not to be the year that ‘computers would go ape’ (a la 2001?), it was the year that certain legacy code, particularly COBOL, would cease to recognize dates beyond December 31 1999, or would exit infinite loops on 09/09/99, a ‘dummy date’ that the designers of COBOL in the 50s never dreamed would ever come.
Those of us (and yes, I worked on it) who were involved as consultants to bring companies into y2k compliance were in an unenviable position: fix the damn thing and the world will call it a boondoggle; fail to fix it and the world will call us incompetent. I don’t know how bad it would have gotten if we had all just sat back, done nothing and let it happen. But I suspect it would have been more expensive to fix than to prevent.
Still, some of the threats were exagerated by our sensationalist media. Yes, it would have been hectic and upsetting, but not a coup de grace for humanity.
If the Mayans could see the future, they wouldn’t have died out, now would they?
I say we should all throw a party on Dec 21st, 2012 — you know, since the worlds ending we should just party it up and have a blast one last time. There’s a great 2012 parody site here that goes into a kinds of detail how to throw a doomsday party (plus it’s got lots of hysterical doomsday scenarios, like Cthulhu, Ragnarok, and the second coming of Elvis):
http://www.doomsdayparty2012.com
I have a calendar on my desk that ends on Dec. 31, 2009. Does that mean that the world will end after that date?
Quick!! Hurry!! Buy a calendar before it’s too laaaattteeee!!!
All the 2012 hype – in it’s MANY forms and flavors – is both tiring and predictable. Our mainstream society is so malleable and easy to mold.
One group says it’s the end of all life.
Another thinks Jesus is coming back to take them away.
Still others believe there’ll be an alien landing or global spiritual awakening.
Personally I’m fascinated by ancient cultures like Egypt, the Mayans, etc. I believe there was a significant reason behind the creation of the calendar that sparked all this silliness – such a huge and complex civilization probably had their reasons for doing just about anything.
What, if anything, this date could mean for the modern world I really have no idea but I’m fairly confident it’s not going to be any sort of grand event like the movie, the return of the mythological Christ, etc. The date probably relates to the cycles of the stars and other heavenly bodies that were so important to the ancient cultures; in fact one researchers has pointed out the timeline appears to coincide with the movement of our solar system in its orbit around the galaxy.
The world will end next year when 7 million arms reset plus commerical real estate defaults spike.
WTF are you talking about?
Reason is writing figuratively of course but how is it possible that an adult living in 2009 does not understand what he is referring to? Wild.
Reason, where did you get the 7 mil number?
Thanks for the non-explanation, dink.
Im a little more optimistic…I think the shell game goes on…..and maybe an administration with a little foresight, reason and logic will slowly prevail….
http://www.cracked.com/article_17445_6-best-2012-apocalypse-theories-are-all-bullshit.html?ref=email
Seems fitting.
Remember Forrest Gump? Running along many a mile, dozens begin to follow and suddenly he says: “I’m Tired”, and stops.
Well, I can imagine the maker of the Mayan calendar simply stopping and saying ” I’m tired, I think I’ll go do something else”, and the calendar simply stops at 2012.
It’s simply another case where humanity seems intent on doom and finds doom written whereever he/she looks.
That’s funny, and it’s definitely a real possibility that the calendar makers simply stopped. I once heard a Native American chief say, in the midst of a presentation about 2012, that his mentor cited one possibility for the end date as.. “Perhaps they ran out of stone”, i.e. they worked to the end of the circular display and stopped.
You’re also right on in terms of humanity being intent on and finding doom. I think people are so disillusioned with the perverted BS that IS our mainstream system that many just want the refuge of doom and gloom; pretty sad.
Another poster above talked about optimism and I tend to lean that way as well. I really think the next couple of generations can shift our society into the kind of BIG change the world needs. Humanity has many more great stories to tell, IMHO if we can just shake loose some of the crud that’s built up over the past couple thousand years.
I share your optimism for a brighter future and hope the webs holding humanity back are soon shed.
Well…. lets see
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091113122958.htm
and…
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=686
aaronwhiston:
Believers see society, and observe that the way the want things to be are not they way they are. They see misery, where there is none. They see immorality, but only because of their perspective. They see people denying the existence of their god, not realizing that it is not denial, but simply a statement that their god does not exist. Anything that does not conform to the ideals they believe is considered evil and aberrant. They want that to end, so doom is what they want, desire, for humanity. This wish is unwarranted, as it is only their view of humanity which is skewed, not humanity in reality that is skewed.
What is warranted is the eradication of religion. It is a bane to humanity. It’s history, and we must learn from history, has been destructive and divisive. It’s content inherently hateful and bigotted. It’s god worse than any evil that has been conceived of since.
Agreed—so long as atheism is the first to go.
You said it…more people have been slaughtered in the name of atheism than in any other.
as amply exemplified by its adherents on this blog.
Atheism is still not a religion, no matter how often you insist it is.
That was in the name of communism, so, broken analogy.
After having been pestered & nagged & obsessively badgered by crazies such as yourself, well, who wouldn’t be angry? Hateful & bigoted, though, that’s another thing entirely.
Did zombie jay-sus beam this info into your head non-verbally?
What is really wrong here is jcc is commenting. Why is he allowed to do so escapes me. His twisted view on atheism does however provide many insights.
dw – I’ve talked to David about this. He thinks that JCC is pretty much comic relief, but stays w/in boundaries.
& truthfully, he gives a good bird’s eye of what kind of mindset we face in the real world. Scary, but true.
“Free thinker’s” Rule #1: All dissenting speech must be silenced–Sieg Heil!
…into the truth…
Babble on Jcc, you are showing signs of cracking. Perhaps you will soon cast the myths you believe in to the side and enter the real world.
And perhaps someday, you’ll actually address my points and answer my questions instead of replying with your usual cowardly derision while patting yourself on your back, thinking that you’d given a dazzlingly brilliant answer… or, short of that, letting the resident blog-gnat fill the void with his desperately insecure attempts at making his presence seem relevant.
See what I mean? Pure comedy gold.
Bzzzt. Bzzzt. Bzzzzzzt. bzzzZZZZZTTTTTttt.
When JCC presents arguments that are not laced with theology nonsense then I will answer. Until then, why feed the psychosis he is enduring?
1. Atheism is not a religion. It has no doctrines to follow. It has no dogma. Every atheist is different, hence the difficulty in alligning atheists behind a cause. Theists, at least in their separate little covens, march in lockstep. They have their programmed responses which they repeat endlessly in an effort to lure others in for like programming.
2.No one has been slaughtered in the name of atheism. Despots, who happen to be atheists, have taken control of groups and countries and carried out slaughters. No one runs around shouting “In atheism’s name, I hereby plunge my sword into you.” Whereas millions have died in God’s name.
3.Religion, in specific, Christianity proclaims certain people are undesirable and should be killed. Re: Homosexuals, disobediant slaves, disobediant children, and those who “God” decides (really god’s interpretor decides) must die. Right thinking is rewarded, wrong thinking punished severely. In a Christians eye, the non-believer is condemned, as the rest of humanity, simply for having been born.
4.The religious fear and despise science and rightly so, as it has forced them into a tiny little corner where they thrash about, and in which they are forever trapped.
In conclusion: All religion must be eradicated, or at least kept from spreading like the cancer that it is. It is time for humanity to leave behind the myths of religious belief, grow up. Reason must prevail, humanity must leave the shackles of religion and assume responsibility for it’s own future.
dw:
If only your ignorance were tempered with humility rather than arrogance:
Such emphatic assertions are highly indicative of rigid, religious thought.
Yes, the “belief that there is no God,” which is common to all atheists, is no more of a doctrine or dogma than “bald is a hair color.”
except for their universal “belief” that God does not exist.
Yes, there’re absolutely no doctrinal differences among the dozens of denominations; a Presbyterian is a Pentecostal is a Catholic…
Yeah, responses like, “atheism is not a religion.
Right, communism is as divorced from atheism as much as the Framers of our Constitution were from Theism.
A demonstrable lie. Again, the body count at the hands of atheists dwarfs that of so-called Christians.
Another demonstrable lie, borne of abject ignorance.
Remind me again where in the Bible Jesus issued those “commands?”
Another misinterpretation resulting from abject ignorance. Immoral behaviors carry built-in consequences; everyone, including you, is free to think as wrongly as much as they want.
Yet another benighted, blatant lie. Yeah, Christians are certainly not known for their evangelism and love for the lost. Get a clue: non-believers are condemned by their own choice.
Yes, I “fear” and “loathe” anything scientific—that’s why I hold two degrees in the sciences and that’s why I never read about anything scientific, or have any scientific curiosity about anything at all…
Like I said, I’m all for it as long as your precious atheism is the first to go.
That’s mighty bold talk when you’ve been shown to not have the slightest clue what reason is.
Your post has been most revealing; you’re demonstrably intellectually bereft of the understanding of the thing (and people) you absolutely despise. That, coupled with your puerile arrogance and callow unsophistication makes you a person deeply in need of sympathy and prayer.
Oh look, found a picture of JCC:
It boggles my mind sometimes why theists with futility try to apply the term religious, to the non-religious. Whereas with the believer he has dogma, doctrine, and walks in lockstep with his comrades, every atheist is different. It is exceedingly difficult to get atheists lined up behind any kind of endeavor as each one has different views concerning that endeavor and how it is to be carried out. It has been described as trying to herd cats.
In my case, the phrase “believe there is no god” is irrelevant. I am an atheist because there are no gods, not because I don’t believe in them.
Is not god and Jesus one and the same: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html
Many of the crimes described in the bible attributed to the Christian god are listed on this page.
Your god does not provide a choice, if he/she/it did, there would be a third choice available: Nonparticipation.
You have science degrees? From what religious university. If your head contained knowledge on biology and genetics, then it would explode, having to also carry around the ignorance of blind faith.
As far as your insults I consider the source and dismiss them.
KA:
That is how I will imagine him from this moment forward.
How ‘bout because, despite your self-imposed intellectual blinders, if the shoe fits…?
Wow. Again, despite the facts presented to you that clearly contradict that statement, you continue in your stubborn persistence…“Rosita” should be proud of such a glittering jewel of an example of a “cognitive bias.”
And that speaks volumes for the character and intellectual integrity of the personality types drawn to atheism.
…yes, in the same way that facts that contradict your opinion are irrelevant.
If only I could communicate to you how intellectually untenable that assertion is… alas, they say that if there’s as much as a 20 point difference in IQ’s between individuals, the higher intelligence simply cannot be comprehended by the lower one…
Yes.
Yes, considering how thoroughly that page did its homework in putting into proper historic, cultural and archaeological context all that it complains about, who could possibly accept Christianity as a valid “religion?”
Once again you’ve failed to comprehend the concept. There is no semantic distinction between “non-participation” in one’s salvation and one’s deliberate refusal of God’s saving grace—to “not participate” in one’s salvation is exactly the same as willfully choosing to deny it—not to choose is to choose.
Yes, do you?—your writing seems to indicate otherwise.
From two secular, fully accredited state (i.e. public) universities. Now, the question is, will you subconsciously repress that fact which contradicts your earlier assertion about Christians and science—or will you make an attempt to break the intellectual fetters that you’ve tied around your own cognitive powers and try to accept that reality?
Wow, what a profoundly brilliant thing to say… Really, was that the best you could come up with?
“blind faith”—as in what you have in what reason is?
No insults—observations based on your own words.
Ah, ain’t that cute? Little mouse is pretending to have intellectual chops.
Sadly, repeating oneself over and over and over again ad nauseum is a sign of schizophrenia. Or Tourette’s.
JCC’s religious blinders continue to control every thought he expresses. I have no degrees from prestigious universities. JCC might as well not have. On every point he fails.
Atheists are independent individuals. Humanists have managed to develope their own philosophies and have united, even if some of them do have some belief.
If there is some entity somewhere that might be called a god-like being, this being has had, and has now no connection with mankind. All the worlds religions are fabrications from an era of ignorance. None of their gods exist in reality.
If the choice is to accept Jesus as savior, and not to choose, is to deny, then there is no choice. Unless the choice of non-participation is available, to be separate, and neither accept or deny, then there is no choice. There is only one… choose to accept or die a death neverending.
An individual according to the belief of such people, are damned for being born. Even a little tiny baby is a sinning crud to these people. Why do they bother to have more sinning little cruds. What a horrible depressing scenario. You can’t even have an audience with their hideous god without being drenched in what is in the final analysis, blood from this same hideous god. In Darwin’s words: “damnable doctrine”.
Wow, a rare moment of candor.
Yes, from your perspective of having none, that makes perfect sense…
…as per your exhaustive, irrefutable and logically impeccable dismantling of each—which, continues to consist of merely stating, “he fails.”
Well that’s new… so, now it is possible for atheists to have beliefs?
And yet another turn-around; why just yesterday, you stated unequivocally: “there are no gods, not because I don’t believe in them.”
Oh dear, I spoke too soon. I suppose personal inconsistency is an unspoken, yet expected, characteristic of such enlightened atheists as yourself?
Once again, facts contradicting such assertions are simply “irrelevant.”
Because, unlike in your religion, hope for redemption does exist.
That’s it, that’s it, little fishy, nibble nibble… take the bait.
There is no redemption. In fact, there is no need for redemption. There is no sin, there is no original sin, for there is no god. There is no Father, son, or holy ghost. It’s all a fantasy little fishy. There are many fantasies. Do you dismiss the others? Does that make you a fundamentalist?
http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm
JCC:
Read what I said more carefully. It is not that gods do not exist because I don’t believe in them, it is : I am an atheist because there are no gods.
Me:
You:
I didn’t say this entity should it exist was a god, only that some like yourself might label it as such. It might be called god-like due to possible qualities it may possess. It is not suggested that such a force or entity has any conscious awareness of existence.
Why yes because you’ve certainly never wronged anyone or done anything that needs redeeming…
That settles it. I’ve been conversing with someone who’s completely detached from reality—and is totally oblivious to that fact.
…because you’ve proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt…
What others?
Yes. I’m as “fundamentalist” as you are… the only difference is that I, unlike you—who can only gainsay and engage in ad hominine—am capable of intellectually defending my statements.
The only careful reading of your statements being done here is by me.
See if you can comprehend this simple reality: that statement is an intellectually indefensible assertion—NOT A FACT.
Indefensible? Who am I defending it against? No one. There simply aren’t any gods, you know it, everyone knows it, some prefer to make believe that there are but in the back of their minds there is reason lurking which keeps telling them it’s all a fairy tale, but when surrounded by like-minded people, the fairy tale is perpetuated.
I have never done anything for which I would deserve burning everlasting. You haven’t either. No one has. It’s idiotic to think anyone deserves that fate. Not even Hitler deserved that, though he did deserve to die. When the facts are examined the crimes committed by the god of the bible are of such magnitude that that god would deserve everlasting fire.
It is refreshing to know that this god, and all the gods in existence are just fanciful creations of humans.
Personally I hope and pray that it does happen. The human race as it is now and will be in the foreseeable future should not survive. The only way for the human race to evolve is through a forced genetic jump. So long as the Dec 21 2012 event only kills 90 to 95% of the world population, the event is likely to force an evolutionary jump in the survivors and their children.
While things will be ruff to say the least for the survivors and their children hopefully their decedents will be more worthy of colonizing the stars then we are. Of the many scenarios given for the event I would prefer the Mantle shift, pole shift not happen, if it is a quick shift I see little chance for even 5% survival. I prefer the impact off the California coast with an activation of the ring of fire.
The combination of these two things with the obvious plagues, polluted waters, and air should take out at least 90% of the world’s populations. The survivors should be centered on the equator, meaning Africa or South America or some of the Pacific Islands. If the impact ignites the ring of fire this should include the Yellow Stone super volcano which would pretty well exterminate America all by its lonesome.
Not to mention the nuclear weapons launched to prevent other nations from taking advantage of the situation. If there is some sort of divine plan to evolve the human race into the next human form this would be the most likely event. Hopefully this time the God or Gods will simply kill off everyone who claims to speak in their name and simply speak for themselves.
But at the least I would pray that the human race would jump from Homo sapiens to Homo Superior whether God or Gods exist or not. The human race as it exists now should not be allowed to colonize the stars let alone our own solar system. While I reject the Authority of the Bible, Koran and Torah I do accept the Bible Codes based upon the Torah. I also accept the validity of the Web Bot’s program which both predicts impacts.
And for the accuracy of the Mayan calendar, prior to the age of computers it was the most accurate calendar and it was only off by tenths of seconds in its lunar predictions the Mayan Calendars accuracy is beyond doubt. It is the meaning of the calendar that is still in doubt. I personally believe that at least one God does exist whether any other God or Gods exist I have no idea.
All I can say from personal experience is that the human race as it exists right now should not be allowed to continue the human race as it exists right now should be destroyed. We need to jump to the next genetic level, we need to grow beyond what we are. We need to evolve into the next level of humanity and we need a good old fashion cleansing to get there. And Dec 21 2012 may be that jump that we need.
You realize of course, Mark, that there isn’t going to be any such event, right?
You’re yanking our chains, right?
Krystalline
Actually no,the bible codes have been ran through the wringer and appears to be valid. A top Mathematician who doubted the validity of the code attempted to prove that it was a hoax. He is now one of the people who say it is valid. I wrote a book showing the contradictions and inconsistancies contained in the bible, Old and New Testaments and showed that the bible invalidates itself.
When I heard of the bible code, I doubted it’s validity simply because I doubt anything that has anything to do with Christianity. But it has been tested and reviewed extensively. While nothing should be looked at or be respected as being infallible and should always be questioned, I think the Bible code is valid.
I am a Theist and believe in a god, I just do not accept that god is represented by the Christian, Moslem or Jewish views that they beleive in. For me the bible code explains why the bible, Jewish and Christian are so poorly written, so contradictory, and inconsistant. The bible code does not validate the bible. The bible was written to validate the code. The bible was not intended to be authoritive, it was only written so that the code could exist.
The Web Bot program which was written to search the internet for keywords and look for trends and information to help with investing in the stock market started coming up with information and predictions. While I hope that 2012 does happen as with everything else there are no guarentees. But there are indicators like these two things, the Myan calendar and several other things, which indicate that 2012 is a significant date.
Sorry, but that is simply absurd.
http://skepticreport.com/sr/?p=175
& while I usually detest citing youtube, this clip is directly from John Safran’s show, & it shows just how ridiculous this cross-referencing ‘code’ is.
MarkHolland:
So, the Bible “invalidates itself,” yet somehow, the “bible was written to validate this code?” That implies that this “code” must predate the Bible. Could you please elaborate more on who devised this “code” and how they managed to coordinate over forty separate authors over two millennia to incorporate their code into what eventually became the Bible?
Could you also elaborate more on the character and nature of this god that you believe in? Is it omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent? What is this god called? How has it revealed itself to you (or anyone else)? Who else believes in this particular deity?
Will the cataclysm of 2012 be ordained by your god? Did the Mayans also believe in your god?
When are we all going to grow up and realize that just like gods, time does not exist.
The earth has merely circled the sun again.
Come on. All us atheist, agnostics and freethinkers can clearly find this on our own.
When are we also going to realize that arguing with Christians is pointless?
it’s better to slowly put the ideas in their heads (if they are older or younger) and let them solve the puzzle.
Don’t make them think it forcefully. Slowly give them the data, and just like us, they will come to the correct conclusion.
To JCC
Christians claim that their bible represents the infallible truths of their God, that their God is infallible and without flaw. If such a God wrote or personally directed the writting of His Holy Book then such a book should be infallible and without flaw. If such a book contains even one error that one error invalidates the divine nature of said book.
The Bible has been proven to contain hundreds if not thousands of contradictions and inconsistancies between the verses contained within it, and between the written words and the way that Christianity applies their doctrines and beliefs in the real world. The Bible invalidates itself as being divinely inspired or directed because of it’s flaws.
For a code to work the frame work of that code must exist before the message can exist. The information contained in a message that is coded is not important, the importance of the message is only in how the message full fills the coded information. The Bible Code existed before the Bible, the Bible was written to full fill the Code, the information contained in the Bible is only important in so far as it establishes and full fills the Code.
The Bible Code does not validate the Bible, it is the Bible that validates the Code. As for who wrote the Code, I would assume that if the Code is real and valid, then it would go hand in hand that atleast one God exists and is valid. If the Bible Code is real then atleast one or more Gods wrote the Code. And if God or Gods are real I would assume that guiding the writting of the message to full fill the Code would be within their capabilities.
I do not accept the belief that there is one universal God with one name, one image and one persona. I believe that there is either one God with thousands of names, images and persona’s. Or that there are multipule Gods with multipule names, images and persona’s. I have been given the proof that I need to believe that atleast one God does exist, it is that God that I believe in and worship.
God or Gods are individual and personal. There is no evidence whatsoever to support the beleif that a single God with a single name, image and persona has ever existed in human history. GodHood beliefs are valid when they are individual and personal. GodHood beliefs are invalid when those beliefs are imposed universally.
So the question is…who wrote it? Space aliens?
I’ve…never seen anyone misspell ‘multiple’ before. Multiple times, in fact.
So, provide your evidence. I hope you have a thick skin.
& you contradict yourself. 1st you say:
AND THEN:
So, when Son of Sam claimed that gawd told him to kill people via his dog, that’s valid? That Charlie Manson was actually the 2nd coming? Every guy who’s ever claimed messiahship is was actually the messiah? Are you joking?
There’s this little worldview that says religion is invalid. It’s called atheism.
Apparently you don’t want to let go of the warm fuzzy feeling of co-dependency.
To Krystalline Apostate
If the Code exists, If the Code is Valid then the Code could have only have been created by a God or Gods. There is no other way to explain the Code if it does exist. If the Code does not exist then God or Gods do not matter. except as individual or personal beliefs.
If spelling is what you consider to be valid and misspelling is what you consider to be invalid. Then that is on you, If you cannot discern the meaning of words from the spelling of words then that is on you. As far as individual and personal beleifs go, there is a big difference between individual and personal beliefs as compared to universal beleifs.
sorry got to go, type to you later.
Well, I haven’t seen anything to infer that the ‘CODE’ exists. I mean, I gave you a perfect example in that youtube video – & thanks to allegory, you can actually make the bible say anything you want to. So…I’ll give it a pass. Sounds ridiculous, actually.
Well, obviously I can. However, you’re laying out what appears to be a pretty crazy claim, & if you want to be taken seriously, misspelling’s an easy way to lose that quick. It’s just that…I can’t resist…MULTIPULE! It cracks me up, that’s all. Sounds like a medication.
Really dude, web browsers come w/built-in spell check. All those typos are subtracting from your message. How can you misspell ‘belief’, spell it right a 2nd time, & misspell it a 3rd time? How? In The Name Of The Code, I beseech thee!
Seriously, though, all kidding aside: how dense must you be to be trying to promote some kind of crazy “I can make the bibble make sense by forcing it into a pattern” on an atheist website? The old testament was written in Aramaic, the new was written in Greek, I can probably get Tolstoy’s ‘War & Peace’ to predict the stock market crash of 1929, if I just juggle the words right.
I mean really, get a clue.
You mean TYPO to me later?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
So I guess you have ‘multipule beleifs’?
LOLOLOL
To Krystalline Apostate
Actually I have more in common with Atheists then I do with Theists. The United States is a secular nation, it was founded as one and for most of its history functioned as one quite well. No God Hood beliefs should be enforced by secular law, no God Hood beliefs should carry any weight outside of ones personal and individual belief system.
My personal beliefs are no more valid or invalid then any other religious belief system. So long as those beliefs do not adversely affect others then they are valid. When any religious belief adversely affects others then those beliefs are invalid. So Son of Sam, or Charles Manson’s beliefs are invalid if those beliefs justified their actions against others.
From what I understand the Atheist movement did not begin with the intent of invalidating religious beliefs. It began with the intent to ensure that religious beliefs would not dictate secular policy or laws, which is a belief that I share whole heartedly with the Atheists.
My theist beliefs like the theist beliefs of others should only be of importance to the theist who holds those beliefs. Theist beliefs are not the problem, the problem is when a theist believes that his/her beliefs are the only valid beliefs, and that those beliefs are applicable to all others. Hence my disdain for Christianity.
Also if you reference my post I said (If) the Bible Code is valid then the only explanation for it’s validity is that it was written by God or Gods. I do not claim that the Code is valid nor do I claim that God or Gods are valid, I simply say that I believe the Bible Code is valid, the Mayan Calendar is valid and that the God that I accept is valid, these things are only valid in the context of my beliefs this does not mean that they are valid to anyone else, they are valid to me.
I have a problem with any belief system that puts forth that it can be universally applied to everyone else. So I apply my beliefs to myself only, though I do go to great efforts to discredit Christian beliefs. Christian Beliefs if they are applied individually and personally are as valid as any other religious beliefs. Christian beliefs that are applied to others not of those beliefs are invalid and should be challenged and invalidated.
The major flaw in Atheist thought is that they can challenge the evangelical movement on the grounds that they do not apply to the secular world. The only way to challenge the evangelical movement is to challenge the foundation on which they claim their authority. And the only way to do that is to challenge their core beliefs and their bible. I am not your enemy, I am an ally to the Atheist movement.
And if you will notice I typed this in my Word Perfect so hopefully you will not be distracted from the content of this post by my misspelling. Take Care and may shear dumb luck grant you a happen and contented life.
Mark, you contradict yourself (again). You say:
AND THEN:
The only validated item on your list is the Mayan calendar – the rest is sheer idle speculation.
That’s nice, but I still say this bibble code thing is sheer bunk.
LMAO! You raise sheep or something?
This blog has become a gathering site for the certifiably stupid. Between the scientifically illiterate theists and the islamobogeyman-hyping atheists on this blog there is little room left for rational humans.
“I have a problem with any belief system that puts forth that it can be universally applied to everyone else.”
That’s like saying gravity can’t be applied to everybody because some people might not believe gravity is true. Think about it, if Christianity is true, which i strongly believe it is, then it does apply to everybody else, even people who don’t believe in Christianity. Something being true doens’t depend on people believing it is true for it to actually be true.
To Joel.varner: You said:
That’s like saying gravity can’t be applied to everybody because some people might not believe gravity is true. Think about it, if Christianity is true, which i strongly believe it is, then it does apply to everybody else, even people who don’t believe in Christianity. Something being true doens’t depend on people believing it is true for it to actually be true.
Dear Joel, The problem is that Gravity is accepted by 99% of Science, the reality of Gravity is not doubted by Science. Gravity can be applied to all since the evidence of gravity actually applies itself to all regardless of beliefs or evidence. Religious beliefs are not the same. There are thousands of religious beliefs and there have been ten’s of thousands of God Hood beliefs throughout the history of modern man let alone the beliefs of the Pre man religions the Neanderthals showed religious beliefs in their burial sites.
But no one religious belief has presented any evidence whatsoever that God or Gods actually exist beyond personal or individual beliefs. Christianity has no more evidence to support it’s God Hood claims then any other God Hood believers. The Christian Bible invalidates itself as far as being God given or God written. There is no evidence whatsoever to give the Christian religion any factual support over any other God Hood belief.
“But no one religious belief has presented any evidence whatsoever that God or Gods actually exist beyond personal or individual beliefs. Christianity has no more evidence to support it’s God Hood claims then any other God Hood believers. The Christian Bible invalidates itself as far as being God given or God written. There is no evidence whatsoever to give the Christian religion any factual support over any other God Hood belief.”
Obviously you have no idea what you’re talking about. Let’s see, i’ll start with cosmology. Everything that begins to exist has a cause, the universe began to exist, therefore the universe has a cause. Every bang needs a banger. To think that the universe just popped into being out of nothing is like saying factories just appear uncaused for no reason at all. Then i’ll go to the Teleological Argument. The fine-turning of the universe. If you change the values of any of the necessary qualities for life in the smallest degree, there would be no life. The statistics are staggering and we can’t even comprehend the numbers. Then we can go to the Moral Argument. If there are objective morals, then naturalism can’t be true becase morals wouldn’t be objective, they’d be subjective. Everyone, universally knows it is wrong to beat a child. That’s objective. Everyone knows that what the Nazi’s did was wrong, that’s objective. If there are objective morals then there has to be a moral giver. And in regards to the claims of Christianity…
There are three facts that are universally agreed upon by contemporary New Testament Scholars. 1.) The tomb was found empty on the third day after Jesus’ Crucifixion, 2.) The Disciples post-mortem appearances of Jesus, and 3.) The origin of the Disciples belief. There is no naturalistic explanation for these three universal facts. The best hypothesis is that Jesus actually did rise from the dead. Any by the way, over 3000 years ago the Jews knew the universe was created, something the atheists didn’t believe until the Theory of General Relativity and finding of microwave radiation in the 1960′s. They always thought the universe was eternal. I’ll leave you with a quote from an Astrophysicist. “Perhaps the best argument that the Big Bang supports theism is the obvious unease with which it is greeted by some atheist physicists. At times this has led to scientific ideas, being advanced with a tenacity which so exceeds their intrinsic work that one can only suspect to operation of psychological forces lying very much deeper than the usual academic desire of a theorist to supporst his or her theory.” C.J. Isham
How stupid do you have to be to say something like that? Define ‘nothing’. There’s no such thing as nothing, you ignorant twat.
That’s because there are no such numbers. You don’t have a criteria to project those ‘numbers’, i.e., an actual realtime alternate (or extra) universe that has no life. So again, fail.
Obviously that’s your subjective opinion.
You people can’t even find the fucking thing.
Mainstream biblical scholars hold that the gospels are pseudipigrapha.
My response to point #2 invalidates this.
Universal? Are you kidding? Islam holds that the crucifixion was faked. Personally, I don’t think zombie jay-sus ever existed. That’s an informed opinion, BTW.
So much wrong w/that statement, where to begin?
A. Pretty much everyone agrees the universe had a beginning (except for Vedic creationists),
B. Relativity doesn’t concern itself w/the beginning,
C. WTF are you babbling about microwaves for?
How nice that you speak for everybody en masse. Everybody used to think that.
Really, you spout some of the most egregious babble I’ve heard…since last week, when some other maroon copied/pasted his/her epistemology off some lunatic’s website.
Wow, you actually made sense there. About time.
Something being false does depend on people insisting it’s true. Like religion.
♫Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies”♪
Christianity is an epic multiple fail. It fails on historicity: it fails on morals: it fails on details, facts, etc. I’d be hard put to say where it succeeds, outside of lulling the sheeple w/flowery sophistry.
“How stupid do you have to be to say something like that? Define ‘nothing’. There’s no such thing as nothing, you ignorant twat.”
Of course there is a such thing as nothing. What do rocks think about? If you study Big Bang Cosmology you’ll understand that time, space, and matter all CAME INTO EXISTENCE at the Big Bang, even Stephen Hawkings says this. And you calling me names means NOTHING, it has no value to the discussion. The number zero represents NOTHING.
“That’s because there are no such numbers. You don’t have a criteria to project those ‘numbers’, i.e., an actual realtime alternate (or extra) universe that has no life. So again, fail.”
Okay, just read what Big Bang Cosmologist have to say on the Fine-Tuning of the universe and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
“Obviously that’s your subjective opinion.”
It’s also the opinion of Nieche, Darwin, and even Richard Dawkins and Peter Singer. How can you find a naturalistic explanation for objective morality? Objective morality means something would be wrong even if no one believed it was wrong. Lets see… Take Nazi Germany for example. If they succeeded in what they set out to do and either killed or brainwashed every person into believing what they did was right, would it really be right? Of course not, we know that killing innocent people is wrong, even if everyone believes it’s okay. Murder and rape are objectively immoral. But if we are no different than animals there is no objective morality. We don’t say lions murder zebras or that male sharks rape female sharks. We just say that lions kill zebras and make sharks procreate.
“Mainstream biblical scholars hold that the gospels are pseudipigrapha.”
You must be talking about the Jesus Seminar, which is not mainstream at all in N.T. Scholarship. Try N.T. Wright, Gary Habermas, Darrell Bock. They’re real mainstream scholars.
“My response to point #2 invalidates this.”
Obviously you are uninformed with New Testament Scholarship. The Jews in the 1st Century, as well as the Romans, knew where the tomb was. Just read Josephus and Tecticus.
“Universal? Are you kidding? Islam holds that the crucifixion was faked. Personally, I don’t think zombie jay-sus ever existed. That’s an informed opinion, BTW.”
So are you saying the religion of Islam is modern New Testament Scholarship???? And you saying Jesus never existed goes against all the evidences all ancient historians hold, you’re supposition is not informed at all, it’s ridiculous. Why would 12 men make up a story about a man who never existed and then get tortured and killed for someone they knew wasn’t real. You make no sense.
“So much wrong w/that statement, where to begin?
A. Pretty much everyone agrees the universe had a beginning (except for Vedic creationists),
B. Relativity doesn’t concern itself w/the beginning,
C. WTF are you babbling about microwaves for?”
Yeah, know everybody agrees the universe had a beginning because of modern science. But even if you look back 200 years the only people who believed the universe wasn’t eternal were Theists. Atheists always argued for an eternal universe until modern times. So, your statement doesn’t prove anything except your incapability of understanding a statement. And the cosmic backround radiation is what proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the universe had a beginning, you really need to study the history of science.
“How nice that you speak for everybody en masse. Everybody used to think that.
Really, you spout some of the most egregious babble I’ve heard…since last week, when some other maroon copied/pasted his/her epistemology off some lunatic’s website.”
If you can find one non-Theist who believed the universe was created even 1,000 years ago you’ll be the first person in history. There were no atheists, or non-Monotheists, who believed the universe was created.
“Christianity is an epic multiple fail. It fails on historicity: it fails on morals: it fails on details, facts, etc. I’d be hard put to say where it succeeds, outside of lulling the sheeple w/flowery sophistry.”
The only thing that fails is your argument and your blatant false assumptions. Please, show me how it fails based on REAL evidence, not your opinion.
No, there isn’t.
I understand what you’re saying, every word of it. There was a universe prior to this 1. So, massive fail. Again.
I understand exactly what you’re saying. It’s still bullshit.
What is? Objective morality? You’ve actually read any of these folks? I’ll bet not.
Tell that to the Vikings. Or the Janjaweed.
Nope. Not talking about them @ all.
Really, how stupid. Of course, nobody can find it. Nobody knows where it is. As to ‘uninformed’, I’ll have to say pot.kettle.black. Are you kidding me?
No, you stated your precious 3 things were ‘universal’. Do try to keep up.
Actually, if you bothered to examine the ‘evidence’ w/a critical eye, you’d find there’s really not a whole lot out there. Can barely prove Pilate existed.
You can’t even prove those 4 guys existed, or that they wrote your gospels. Judas hung himself (if he even existed). & the martyrdom crap stems from a 14th CE book by Fox – so tradition holds it, but still, there’s no substantial proof.
Citation needed.
I stated my premises in the present tense, so your reading comprehension is poor.
Citation needed.
Huh? No, no fail. The Exodus? Never happened. Tower of Babel? Never happened. Flood? Never happened. No prophecies ever came true. Jericho? Abandoned when they arrived. Egypt? Never cursed, so that no insect, human or animal could walk across it.
As for morals? Slavery. The book brags about genocide. Brags about the ‘holy race’. People are slaughtered right ‘n left in the damn thing.
Face it, you gotta whole lotta nothing, chuckles.
As usual, joel the troll is wrong:
Extrapolation of the expansion of the Universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.
So…all that “nothing” had density & temperature? Who’d'a thunk it?
To joel.varner You said:
There are three facts that are universally agreed upon by contemporary New Testament Scholars. 1.) The tomb was found empty on the third day after Jesus’ Crucifixion, 2.) The Disciples post-mortem appearances of Jesus, and 3.) The origin of the Disciples belief. There is no naturalistic explanation for these three universal facts. The best hypothesis is that Jesus actually did rise from the dead.
First off just because Christian Scholars claim these things as facts does make them facts. A fact is this, that in every major event that is claimed of Jesus there are at least two or more conflicting stories. The records of Jesus’ birth have two completely contradictory stories one says that Jesus was spirited off to Egypt the other says that Jesus was sanctified at the temple In Jerusalem. Jesus’ trial, his crucifixion, his death, his resurrection all have contradictory stories.
These are facts, these stories are easily read and their contradictions are obvious, these are facts. And the fact is when two or more stories are contradictory to each other and no evidence exists to support one over the other’s then all of the stories are invalid. One story of Jesus’ birth says Jesus was spirited off to Egypt until the death of Herod. The other claims that Jesus was sanctified after birth at the temple in Jerusalem and that Jesus and his parents made yearly pilgrimages to Jerusalem for Passover.
These contradictory stories are fact contained in your bible for all to read. Since there is no evidence to support the validity of one story over the other both stories are invalid. Compare John’s account of the crucifixion to the other three accounts, completely contradictory in nature. John claims it was a normal every day execution nothing out of the ordinary except Jesus gets a spear in his side, but the others claim magical wonders beyond belief each telling a more fantastic tale then the one before with graves opening up and dead people walking the streets of Jerusalem, but of course not one of them mentioning the spear in Jesus’ side as John did.
Read the accounts of the sepulcher each contradictory to the others, the number of women from 1 to a dozen, how was the stone moved, how many angel’s were seen and when they were seen all contradictory, all invalid. Other then Josephus taking a sentence or two to talk of some trouble maker who may or may not have been Jesus no other evidence exists to indicate that the man Jesus even existed.
I think you might do well to at least read your own bible before talking fantasies about it’s divine nature. And what is or is not fact, having scholars claiming that an obvious lie is actually a fact is about as idiotic as Bush the Son claiming to speak mouth to mouth with God, actually makes it a fact because he claimed it was so.
“First off just because Christian Scholars claim these things as facts does make them facts. A fact is this, that in every major event that is claimed of Jesus there are at least two or more conflicting stories. The records of Jesus’ birth have two completely contradictory stories one says that Jesus was spirited off to Egypt the other says that Jesus was sanctified at the temple In Jerusalem. Jesus’ trial, his crucifixion, his death, his resurrection all have contradictory stories.”
You obviously don’t know what N.T. Scholarship is. There are Atheists in N.T. Scholarship, Jews, Muslims, pantheists, and agnostics that agree on these three statements. There is not one conflict is Jesus’ birth narratives, one is taken from Mary’s geneology and the other is taken from his adopted father Joseph’s geneology. I really wish atheists would inform themselves!
“one says that Jesus was spirited off to Egypt the other says that Jesus was sanctified at the temple In Jerusalem.”
What are you talking about? The Bible clearly states that Joseph and Mary took Jesus to Egypt. What are you talking about spirited off? And there isn’t one place in the Bible that says Jesus was sanctified at the temple in Jerusalem. Do you even know what sanctified means????
“Jesus’ trial, his crucifixion, his death, his resurrection all have contradictory stories.”
They do not! You are spouting plain falsehood! Give me examples of contradictions. You are providing now evidence to your completely false claims.
“These are facts, these stories are easily read and their contradictions are obvious, these are facts. And the fact is when two or more stories are contradictory to each other and no evidence exists to support one over the other’s then all of the stories are invalid. One story of Jesus’ birth says Jesus was spirited off to Egypt until the death of Herod. The other claims that Jesus was sanctified after birth at the temple in Jerusalem and that Jesus and his parents made yearly pilgrimages to Jerusalem for Passover.”
Okay, they aren’t facts whatsoever and you fail to bring any evidence to your argument, all you are showing is your ignorance of the biblical text.
“Since there is no evidence to support the validity of one story over the other both stories are invalid.”
Show me a contradiction. And even if one did have a contradiction how would that make both of them invalid??? If you said George Washington was the first president and I said Abraham Lincoln was would they both be false because they contradict eachother?
“Compare John’s account of the crucifixion to the other three accounts, completely contradictory in nature. John claims it was a normal every day execution nothing out of the ordinary except Jesus gets a spear in his side, but the others claim magical wonders beyond belief each telling a more fantastic tale then the one before with graves opening up and dead people walking the streets of Jerusalem, but of course not one of them mentioning the spear in Jesus’ side as John did.”
Just because John mentions something the other writers didn’t in no way makes it contradictory. An argument from silence isn’t an argument at all. If two reporters are covering a story there will be different things in each column, but that doens’t mean they’re contradictory, it just means one reported picked up facts that the other reporter didnt’. How does that make sense?
“Read the accounts of the sepulcher each contradictory to the others, the number of women from 1 to a dozen”
It never says there was only one woman, it just mentions one. If there are twelve women in one place isn’t there also one woman as well? If Michelle Obama went with eleven other woman to meet the Senator of New York and one newspaper said Michelle Obama went to meet the Senator of New York and another newspaper said Michelle Obama went with eleven other women to meet the Senator of New York would they be contradicting eachother? Of course not!.
“how was the stone moved”
The only explanation is that an angel moved it, nowhere in any of the other gospels does it say it was moved in another way, what are you talking about?
“how many angel’s were seen and when they were seen all contradictory, all invalid.”
Again, if there were two angels then someone only reporting about one angel isn’t contradictory. He was just saying “An angel was there.” And the other Gospel writer said “Two angels were there.” Again, it never said only one angel was there so it’s not contradictory.
“Other then Josephus taking a sentence or two to talk of some trouble maker who may or may not have been Jesus no other evidence exists to indicate that the man Jesus even existed.”
Okay, you are empiracally misinformed!Cornelius Tacitus (A.D. 55-120) who was a Roman Historian mentions Him and the persecution of Christians by the hand of Nero because they believed Jesus was God and rose from the dead. Lucian Samosata who lived in the late A.D. 100′s mentions Jesus and the fact that Christians in Rome were worshipping Him as God. Seutonius, another Roman historian talks about Christ and the Jews making “constant disturbances at the instigation of Christ,” in his work Life of Claudius, who by the way is mentioned by Luke in Acts 18:2. And Suetonius writes about Nero blaming Christians for a fire that Nero himself started. Pliny the Younger, the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor in A.D. 112 talks about Jesus and the fact that in the face of death Christians wouldn’t denounce Jesus as God. Then you have Thallus, who arote around A.D. 52, mentioning Christ and also the darkness that fell upon the land during Christ’s crucifixion. Then you have Phlegon who also confirms that darkness came upon the earth at Jesus’ crucifixion. Then you have Mara Bar-Serapion who was a Syrian and Stoic Philosopher in A.D. 70 who talks about the crucifixion of Jesus and the fact that Christians were worshipping Jesus as God. And the Babylonian Talmud talks about Jesus being crucified, that He was an excorsisor of demons, and that people worshipped Him as God. You also have to Testimonies of Josephus, who was a Jewish Historian living in Rome. Then you have Clement of Rome, Ignatius, Quadratus, Aristides, Justin Martyr, Hegesippus, the Roman Emperor Trajan, the Roman Emperor Hadrian, the Roman emperor Antoninus Pius, Marcus Aurelius, the Roman satirist Juvenal, you have Seneca, and Hierocles all stating Jesus existed and that people worshipped Him as God. So again, you need to inform yourself on real history before making false claims.
“I think you might do well to at least read your own bible before talking fantasies about it’s divine nature.”
First of all, i never once stated that the Bible has divine nature, i do believe it does but i never said anything about that. Second, i wish you would read the Bible and see for yourself that you are fallaciously misinformed.
“And what is or is not fact, having scholars claiming that an obvious lie is actually a fact is about as idiotic as Bush the Son claiming to speak mouth to mouth with God, actually makes it a fact because he claimed it was so.”
Show me how it is an obvious lie, you still haven’t proved anything. So again, modern N.T. Scholarship agrees upon the empty tomb, the post-mortem appearances, and the origin of the disciples faith. Based upon the evidence the best explanation is that Jesus rose from the dead which validated His claim to be God. But first of all, you have to show why God doesn’t exist in order to say that miracles can’t happen. So, give me some reasons why God doesn’t exist.
Here’s a list of biblical contradictions, that is if you have the stomach for it (or the honesty):
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
More on the wholly bibble:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The evil bible:
http://www.evilbible.com/
First off I do not claim that God or Gods do not exist. I believe that at least one does, and make no attempt to prove that other Gods do not exist. God or Gods have no relevance in the physical world except on a personal or individual basis. Other then that it does not matter whether they exist or not. I will correct myself concerning the word sanctified, they presented Jesus to the lord at the temple in Jerusalem. C/P’s from my book.
Contradictions contained in the Bible
The Birth of Christ
According to Luke (2:4 to 2:7)(2:21, 2:22)(2:39 to 2:41) Joseph and Mary lived in Nazareth and journeyed to Bethlehem to be taxed. While in Bethlehem Mary gives birth to Jesus in a manger because there was no room in the inn. Afterwards they journeyed to Jerusalem and presented Jesus to the Lord and returned to Nazareth. They then Journeyed to Jerusalem every year for pass over.
According to Matthew (2:1, 2:2, 2:9)(2:11, 2:13,14)(2:15, 2:20 thru 2:23) Jesus was born in Bethlehem because that is where Joseph and Mary lived as 2:11 shows. An angel tells Joseph to take Jesus and Mary to Egypt because Herod wants to kill Jesus. An angel tells Joseph that Herod is dead and he is to return to Israel with Jesus and Mary.
Joseph is afraid of Archelaus who is the Son of Hared, and rules from Jerusalem, and decides to live in Nazareth instead of returning to Bethlehem, Where their house was that the wise men had entered when honoring Jesus.
Two completely different stories. It is not a matter of interpretations or finding the hidden meanings. Two Men whom the Priesthood claims had divine knowledge, and who supposedly knew the infallible
truths of God, tell two completely different versions of the birth of Christ.
The Crucifixion
According to Matthew (27:35 to 27:38)(27:45 to 27:54) Christ is Crucified, the Centurions cast lots over his garments which Matthew claims full fills a prophecy (Psalms 22:12)(Psalms 22:11 to 22) (Joshua 12:4) (Deut 3:1) (Num 21:33) clearly shows that the casting of lots was not a prophecy. That from the sixth hour to the ninth hour there was darkness. Christ calls out, My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me, which makes no since if Christ was God in physical form, and is a direct copy from (Psalms 22:1) Christ did not say this, David did. And Christ dies soon after. At his death the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom, there was an earth quake and rocks were broken, graves were opened and dead saints arose and appeared to many in Jerusalem. A Centurion watching all of these miracles says, Truly this was the Son of God.
According to John (19:18 to 19:24) (19:28 to 19:37) Christ is Crucified, the Centurions cast lots over Christ’s clothing which is once again claimed to full fill a prophecy. Christ knowing that all things were accomplished, said It is finished then bowed his head and died. John is the only apostle that mentions anything about broken legs or a spear in the side. Psalms 34:20 says He keepeth all of his bones: not one of them is broken, this is not a prophecy but if it was then Psalms 34:21 which says, Evil shall slay the wicked would also have to be a prophecy which would mean that Christ was wicked. Which of course he is not.
As for “They shall look on him whom they pierced” is contained in Zech 12:8 to 12:12. This Prophecy cannot be full filled until after the House of David becomes as God, and God himself will destroy all nations that come against Israel. I do not believe that has happened yet so the prophecy is still unfulfilled.
This is known as the Negative proof fallacy. No, you’re the 1 making extravagant claims here. You think some invisible sky daddy waved a magic wand & poofed! everything into existence.
& the ‘evidence’ you’ve provided thus far is weak.
Matthew says that. However, Luke says they went to Bethlehem for a census.
No, he’s right, & I provided a link.
You…can’t be serious? Not only is that a stupid example, but your fairy tales should synchronize up.
Lame excuse. Mark’s right – you have 2 synoptics that talk about the virgin birth, 2 that don’t, 2 of them can’t get the genealogies right , 1 says they went to Egypt, the other says they went to Bethlehem, 2 of them don’t mention the ‘darkness’ (nobody on earth mentions that darkness too, go figure), only 1 mentions extra zombies & accuses the Jews of spreading rumors (& taking the death on their heads – Matthew).
Leaving out 11 other people is pretty much bad story telling.
That’s incredibly stupid.
No he isn’t. There are no contemporary multiple external attestations. You have 40 Roman historians, not a murmur. Philo Judeus, nary a word. All these other people got their info 2nd hand. Thallus sure as hell doesn’t count for anything. Suetonius mentions ‘Chrestians’, Phlegon didn’t live until the 2nd CE (& really, honestly, not 1 civilization on earth reported this alleged ‘darkness).
You couldn’t prove that nonsense in a court of law. You’ve got no witnesses, & any evidence is tattered papyri from the 2nd century.
Either you’re a moron, or very, very young.
To: Krystalline Apostate
One of the other things that I love about Christian beliefs is that they claim that Jesus full filled hundreds of O/T prophecies, and yet when you read the prophecy in full that they reference as being full filled, it turns out to be either not a prophecy or a 30 + verse prophecy where they take one or two verses that can be warped to indicate Jesus and claim Jesus full filled it, when the other 28 or 29 verses prove that Jesus could not have full filled it.
One of the few prophecies that I found in the bible that I believe directly relates to Jesus shows that Jesus died the death of a false prophet, and that all of his apostles who died, died the deaths of false prophets. Knowing the Bible and what it says is the best way to counter religious fanatics. They have to be challenged on their perceived authority and perceived righteousness. I would love to see someone standing on a street corner with signs saying Bible Burning Day or Bible Shredding Day, and doing just that.
The virgin birth prophesy quoted by an apostle to show that Jesus was born of a virgin could not have been full filled by Jesus. That prophecy should have been full filled at least 500 years before the very normal birth of Jesus occurred (If it occurred) and non of the conditions set forth by the prophecy to validate the virgin birth occurred during Jesus’ life.
That is the main reason I so love the Christian Bible it is the best weapon to use against Christian zealots, fundamentalists and evangelicals. The only way to challenge these Christian zealots and their perceived righteousness and authority is to challenge the foundation of their authority which is of course their bible. Like I have said before Atheists challenge the Christians right to impose their beliefs through the secular world.
But so long as they believe they are righteous in imposing their beliefs upon others there can be no stopping them. The only way to challenge them is to challenge their righteousness, their authority. And the only way to do that is to directly challenge the Bible and its authority.
And before signing off for the night, I just want you to know that I do not as you asked.
LMAO! You raise sheep or something?
Nope I have done many things in my life but I have never been into husbandry of any kind.
I hope that pure dumb luck grants you a pleasant and full filling life, and grants you a life of peace. And this is a sincere hope.
Yeah, until you provide a citation, I call shenanigans.
Here Mark, let me demonstrate what the fundies & zealots hear, using the above pargraph:
That is the main reason I so love the Christian Bible blah blah Christian blah, fundamentalists and evangelicals. Blah-de-blah-blah Christian zealots and their blah righteousness and authority is blah de blah foundation of their authority blah de blah bible.
The ‘blahs’ & ‘blah de blahs’ illustrate the selectivity of the hearing (or reading) filter they employ. That’s why I disagree about using the bibble to argue w/them. Better to challenge them to defend WITHOUT the ‘holy texts’ – it makes it more difficult, & doesn’t validate them.
That was an attempted joke, as you used the word ‘shear’ instead of ‘sheer’
Don’t believe in luck, either. Thanks anyways.
To Krystalline Apostate:
There is nothing contradictory to my posts. God or Gods are only relevant when they are applied individually and personally. The moment that God or Gods are applied generally or universally they become invalid. Personal beliefs are valid general or universal beliefs are invalid.
The Bible Code, Mayan Calendar, I Ching I consider valid to me. This does not mean that they are valid in reality or to anyone else. I speak only to things that I believe but the things that I believe in may not be things that others believe in. So I do not speak contradictions.
As for the verification of the prophecies showing that Jesus died the death of a false prophet they are in in following sorry for the length it is a c/p from my book. And please remember that when I wrote the book I still considered myself a Christian, it was not until later that I simply became a Theist.
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mr 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Christ said in Mark 9:1 that some of the people listening to him would not die but would live to see the coming of Gods kingdom with power. did this happen, no.
God said in De 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken,
And in De 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Christ claimed to speak with the authority of God and said that the kingdom of God would return two thousand years ago, it did not happen and according to De 18:22 this makes Christ a false prophet and the punishment for a false prophet is contained in De 18:20 and the punishment is death. Christ was crucified by the religious leaders for being a heretic which fulfills this prophecy to a tee.
Of all the prophecies quoted by the so called Saints so far this is the only one that I believe truly deals with Christ and I have no doubt has truly been fulfilled. As far as the prophecy contained in Acts 3:22 and 3:23 is concerned the author rewrote it to give it a different meaning than the actual prophecy and he did so with the intent to deceive the reader.
I would also point out that based on what this prophecy says, the so called Saints died not because they were righteous men of God who spoke on his authority. They died because God judged them to be false prophets and the penalty for a false prophet is death. If the so called Saints truly spoke on the authority of God then I would not be able to document the lies, deceptions and manipulation of information and events that they used to gain their authority, prestige and vanity that I have documented.
I believe that Christ is the Prophet that is talked about in this prophecy, I believe the teachings that Christ taught while he was alive and I copied from Luke in my first book were spoken on the authority of God. I believe that following those teachings is necessary to receive Gods redemption through Christ.
I do not believe that Christ was God in physical form, I do not believe that Christ held claim to Gods infallibility, perfection or glory.
For God said in Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:.
Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; Is 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. Is 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Is 42:9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
When Moses and Aaron called forth water out of a rock on their authority they took from God his Glory and put it upon themselves. For this sin God sentenced them both to death. Aaron died at the time and Moses died before entering the promised land thirty years later. When Christ forgave sin on his authority, when he healed people on his authority he took from God his Glory, and for that God sentenced him to death.
Matthew 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Mt 9:3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth. Mt 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
Matthew 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk? Mt 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. Mt 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
And like Moses, Christ took from Our Father his Glory by saying that it was on his authority that sins could be forgiven and the sick healed.
As for the 2012 prophecy’s, The Ice Caps North and South are melting at an astonishing rate. The movement of the magnetic north has been documented over the decades since the cold war. The solar activity is maxed during the 2012 year. Yellow Stone National Park which is a super volcano. There are dozens of natural disasters that could account of the end times. There are far to many natural cataclysms that can occur on or near the 2012 time table let alone the disasters that could occur from outside the earths influence. Just in the last decade we have had at least two cases of near impacts.
One was a 3 mile diameter asteroid passing between the earth and moon that could have destroyed all civilizations on the earth we missed this destiny by 4 hours. Another was just a few months ago that was equivalent to the impact crater in AZ which would have dug us a new arse hole but not destroyed all civilizations. But it to passed between the earth and the moon. Our reality is very fragile it can be destroyed in a myriad of ways. As the realities of past civilization have been destroyed many times.
Super volcano’s, impacts, ice ages, heat ages, anyone who says that these things will not happen, are people who have no clue as to world history. While the people who say that if it happens it happens and if it does not happen it will not happen are right, I prefer to hope that it does. But if 2012 does not happen then it does not happen. If it does happen then great hopefully the human race may advance into it’s next faze of growth. Hopefully homo sapiens while become homo superior.
I’ll take this in separate steps.
When you say “I’m not saying that god or gods is valid” & you turn around & say “but they’re valid TO ME”, that’s contradictory.
Not a catastrophe:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2005/Dec05/magneticnorth.htm
Solar Max will likely hit 2010-2011.
If you do a little research, you’ll find that’s not a critical worry.
Dude, this doomsaying has been going on for CENTURIES. We’ve had ice ages, super volcanos, etc. This is old news.
Does your ‘prophecy’ account for leap years, BTW?
“It’s not over till it’s over” – Yogi Berra. Really, do you proof any of this stuff?
Dude, you can’t tailor reality to your whims. Don’t work that way.
Seriously, how much pot do you smoke? Do you realize how stoner that sounds? Or how oblivious?
Actually I can tailor my perceptions of reality to me.