Although it’s not really a surprise, recent availability of Defense documents clearly show that the Bush administration thought of the war in Iraq as a religious crusade — meant at least in part to spread Christianity in the Islamic world.
Just like the Moslems said, and just as we all feared.
People died, and still die, on both sides of this useless and possibly illegal war. Indeed, they are still using American Soldiers to spread Christian Bibles (which carries a death penalty if they get caught).
Military Religious Freedom Foundation statement on the Bagram scandal.
From Public Record, “Rights Group Uncovers Other Cases Of Military Proselytizing Christianity to Muslims.”
The lesson we should learn here is obvious: politicians should be disqualified from holding office if they place their bible above the constitution. It’s not about religious freedom, it’s about priorities — if America is not your #1 priority, then you have a conflict of interest and shouldn’t be in charge.
It’s ironic that this comes out as the LA Times published an opinion that we atheists are boring and complain a lot. I admit it does get tiresome to continually fight idiots who want to kill people for their own religious gains, but the “boring” fighting will continue until America steps up and stops electing idiots and zealots for leaders.
I wonder what the LA times would say to the families of the soldiers who went to war thinking they were defending America, but died defending Bush’s religion.
religion seems to inundate our military….its certainly in all its ceremony….
My thought is that they lied to us over either or a combination of religion and oil….
do hippocrates eventually pay the piper?
Its sad, really. They send in troops, thinking they’re fighting for they country, but really there spreading on mans beliefs. innocente people are dying becasue of one mans so called “calling to god”
From the LA Times article-
“Maybe Darwin-o-mania stems from the fact that this year marks the bicentennial of Charles Darwin’s birth in 1809, but haven’t atheists heard that many religious people (including the late Pope John Paul II) don’t have a problem with evolution but, rather, regard it as God’s way of letting his living creation unfold?”
This pretty much summarizes the opinion of the writer and of a good number of people who are clueless about or a part of the religious right. Why the LA Times is letting her write an opinion on such a thing I don’t know, but this is the equivalent of me writing about why I hate people from Wyoming because all they do is milk cows. (I’ve never met anyone – knowingly – from Wyoming)
knowing the nationalities of the fanatics that flew our planes into our buildings makes me wanna barf when I watch this video….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF5MhzFdBsU
WTF
Werent the 911 hijackers Afghans and Iraqis? isnt that why we went to war in those two countries? oh wait a minute…
It’s well past time to get out of Afghanistan.
The opinion piece appearing in the LA Times was written not by the editors or a regular commentator but rather by Charlotte Allen, a twit known for her conservative lunacy. If she were 40 years younger she would probably be competing with Ann Coulter in her attention-seeking media niche.
What cracks me up is that she writes that Atheists are boring – but she is writing about us nonetheless! It’s just her vain attempt to try to marginalize Atheists and it will only empower us. I am reminded of the following quote from Ghandi: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” Thanks for playing Charlotte!
thanks for lending your optimism what….it gets me through the holy days….
You’re welcome.
She also thinks we are complainers so she writes an opinion piece to complain about that. Clearly the LA Times is not observing Formosa’s Law with respect to Charlotte Allen. This is case of allowing someone to speak so as to “remove all doubt”.
OFF TOPIC, but somewhat related…
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/health/19well.html?_r=1&hp
The inhumanity of the bigoted right wing is absurd. How can religious folks like JCC and phreedm claim that there is no inequality and there is no need for marriage equality when there are issues like this? I would like to hear a rebuttal. And that one cardinal saying atheists are not fully human when people following his belief system are promoting bigotry such as this? Hypocrisy runs rank.
Sorry to go off-topic on the thread. I just thought this was an important news article.
A quote from the article linked by Zeus:
Very well put!
This is why we need marriage equality NOW! why the fuck are we still debating gay equality anyway? shouldnt this have been resolved about 40 years ago? FUCK. Is it any wonder that I am so angry?
Hmmmm, what does Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution say?—oh yeah: no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States. Yeah Dave, what you got there certainly can’t be construed as a religious “litmus” test.
But wait, you just said a politician cannot be free to place a higher power over a man-made document in his/her life and be qualified to hold public office. Are you advocating some kind of repeal of Article VI Section 3?
Nine states do have religious tests for public office. In nine states I cannot be governor because I do not believe in God. Arkansas is the most draconian. It bans atheists from even taking the witness stand. These provisions are in their states constitutions.
Now ar…
Does this not clearly show that our founders MUST have had a different interpretation of the First Amendment then what AA has promoted over the past 40 years?
There’s a difference between religious freedom and following the constitution.
So, what accountability, JCC? Say someone ‘hears gawd’ commanding him/her to launch a nuclear missile? What do you recommend? That we hold a religious tribunal prior to a military tribunal, to find out if said crazy person actually received an actual command from on high?
listen to jcc….”im an idiot and theres nothing you can say to disprove that im an idiot”…
exactly dolt!
I’ve had it with the evangelicals…..f those hypocrites…and when I have the personnel pleasure I will proceed with rigor in my disdain for the sort…
From AU website:”if reports by GQ and The New York Times are any indication, religion may be playing even more of an inappropriate role in the military than we thought. And it’s disturbing, to say the least.
GQ’s Web site reveals troubling information about former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s daily top-secret briefings to former President George W. Bush. These briefings, called “Worldwide Intelligence Update,” were “a daily digest of critical military intelligence so classified that it circulated among only a handful of Pentagon leaders and the president,” according to GQ.
During the early part of the Iraq War in 2003, the covers of the briefings included photos of soldiers praying or in action in Iraq. These photos were accompanied by Bible verses.
For example, one cover sheet showed a photo of a large Baghdad monument of two crossed swords, with a tank beneath it. The quote above the image, from Isaiah 26:2, is: “Open the gates that the righteous nation may enter, the nation that keeps faith.”
Another slide depicts the cover of an April 2003 briefing. It shows images of soldiers fighting with the quote from Joshua 1:9: “Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.”
GQ has compiled a slideshow of select cover sheets to these daily briefings that Rumsfeld often delivered to the White House by hand.
This “mixing of Crusades-like messaging with war imagery…had become routine,” the GQ article said.
It’s a routine that would make anyone ask if the Bush administration saw the war in Iraq as some sort of holy war. And it wouldn’t be the first time that question had come up.”
Actually, everything I have learned indicates that the influx of christian indoctrination has come into Afghanistan through religious based charities. “Want some food for your children, then wear this cross.”
And I am reminded of the movie, “Full Metal Jacket” when the drill instructor said, “god has given you the ability to kill without hesitation, and in return for this gift, we will keep heaven stocked with fresh souls”. Religion, and the immortality of heroes in battle has always been a part of the war machine. Nothing has changed. A horror generator with no regret.
NeoWolfe
(Chuckle)JaCCoff pulls this phrase out of context:
“Hmmmm, what does Article VI, section 3 of the Constitution say?—oh yeah: no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”
But, wait, what does it say just before that? Let me quote, ” shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution.” Which means that Fred Phelps can’t be disqualified from serving in office on the basis of his religious beliefs, but, first he must swear to uphold the constitution.
Constitution trumps fundie beliefs. Game, set, match.
NeoWolfe
Mowgli:
Exactly, & well said.
ShowMe said:
“There’s a difference between religious freedom and following the constitution.”
Response: Regrettably, there is not. It was a free mason idea back to the building of the pyramids. Thomas Jefferson wrote the declaration, but the idea that all men were created equal was free mason too. Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, and John Hancock were freemasons. This country is their dream.
And while the continental congress let the christians keep abolition out of the constitution, which cost several hundred thousand lives and the suffering of blacks for several more generations, the fact is, despite their vision for equality, they still left us the religious bullshit to clean up. As for me, I think they did well with what they had to work with.
But, roll up your sleeves, the cleanup is far from over.
NeoWolfe
All very true, what I should have said was that religious freedom does not go beyond the constitution.
MENSTYLE.COM…? And THIS is your reliable source for this story?
You’ve GOT to be kidding me…
Oh…wait. You get a free “man bag” when you sign up…
http://tinyurl.com/pkoqw9
And speaking of maroons…electing idiots…
“all the cruelties large and small those of us in the Christian tradition understand to be rooted in original sin”
“it was through this service that I was brought to Christ”
“It’s beyond our capacity as human beings to know with certainty what God has planned for us…And those of us who believe must trust that His wisdom is greater then our own. And this doubt should not push us away from our faith”
“I stand here today as President”
President Obama’s speech at Notre Dame May 17, 2009
OK…any bets on exactly how long it will be before Mr Ed or Dave file a law suit? Hahahaha….not in your life.
Reminds me of the Dem’s convention…
And speaking of maroons…electing idiots…
so deliciously ironic!
Easy, pcb, the troll-in-charge doesn’t understand big words like ‘ironic’ and ‘hypocrisy’, so it won’t understand the point you are trying to make.
Phreedumb,
Obama’s public personna is a facade. Just like John McCain who, in front of a video camera, said the repeal of Roe v. Wade was a bad idea because it would endanger the health of pregnant women who desparately needed to abort the pregnancy. And in front of a video camera, called people like Jerry Falwell, “voices of intolerence”. But, as soon as he decides to run for president on a conservative platform, he appears on Falwell’s show, dressed like the pope, and then, during the debates, on Rick Warren’s stage, he pledges his administration will be pro-life.
Politics is about publicists and spin doctors. Big surprise. If you want to hit Obama where it counts, call him out on his pledge to end “don’t ask, don’t tell” in the military. He damn sure dropped that ball.
NeoWolfe
Wolfie…I did. I also pointed out how Barry lied about his plans to overturn the Defensive Marriage Act…
However, in their infinite wisdom and expression of tolerance Dave or KA deleted the post…
Obama stands on his own action and his promises, as far as I’m concerned. When he fails to meet the grade I will stand by you as accuser.
But let’s be real, you hypocrit, you don’t want gays to have any rights. So do please shut the hell up.
NeoWolfe
Thanks for showing your true angry colors…again…for a minute there I thought you could enter the civilized world and have a decent debate…but alas…you validate my position on ignoring you…
A- many non-religious chose Obama as the BETTER candidate- not only because he isn’t a fundamentalist and for his stance on evolution, abortion, etc., but also because of economic and foreign policy issues.
B- I have no problem with Obama being a man of faith (I doubt that he is a serious Christian, but we may never really know, and speeches like this seem to point otherwise) as long as he keeps his faith out of important decisions and doesn’t invade countries as a result of divine intervention. His stance on abortion and inclusion of all people, even if he’s only taking little steps, are enough to keep me happy from a religious point of view.
As a predator stalking its prey the religious know that many military personnel are away from home, possibly for the first time, and very alone. With promises of socialization they lure a likely prospect in. Usually it will start in the home of a military member who has arranged to invite the likely prospect. Friendship, socialization, and home-cooked food is accepted by the lonely man/woman like water on a dry sponge. The proseltyzing begins with prayer for the meals, and escalates thereafter. Whose story is this? Mine.Who was that lonely man? Me.
That was a long time ago, but I see, not only has proseltyzing continued but increased. Here we have Christians breaking military law with impunity. We also have their higher ups doing whatever they can to protect them. It would seem the military brass needs a good cleaning out.
dw…as stated above. Where is the complaint about the Commander of our Armed Forces?
I guarantee you Mr. Ed and Dave will remain silent. That should speak volumes to you…
The Commander of our Armed Forces, Obama, is now under close scrutiny on many fronts. When he walks down the corridor which figuratively contains the issues of interest to all sides, any door he might open will contain forces which try to pull him inside.
Being a political animal Obama must walk a careful line or risk alienating one or the other among his constituents. After all, no one faction can elect the man, many from each faction are required for that.
The volumes that you refer to have not been spoken yet. Obama is under the microscope. To continue the analogy, the scientist observing Obama under the microscope, is yet unsure whether Obama is the virus, or the cure.
I see Mr. Ed and Dave silent like many thoughtful individuals. Before you assess a situation you must observe the situation and accummulate the facts. Only those with a prior vendetta rush to judgement.
ON TOPIC ALERT
JERUSALEM, March 20 (Reuters) – Rabbis in the Israeli army told battlefield troops in January’s Gaza offensive they were fighting a “religious war” against gentiles, according to one army commander’s account published on Friday.
“Their message was very clear: we are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the gentiles who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land,” he said.
That’s old news what, & we discussed that 2 mos. ago.
& it’s off-topic, as the post discusses America
KA
What? And the crusades aspect of the Iraq Invasion is not old news?
Indeed it does! I see this as a discussion about the nexus of America, war and religion. Do you disagree? And where does one find that mix on display more than in the American-backed genocide committed by Israel?
KA,
It’s the old Whutthole, complete with cling-ons and dingle berries. I say again, it a great thing to reject religion, but, it’s something completely different to be a free thinker. He’s a waste of webspace. Wasted electrons.
Mowgli
Neoplasm
You seem to be suffering from a delusion of grandeur in which you are bestowed with some awesome responsibility of distributing a coveted “free thinker” distinction. As I have told you before I have no desire to be affiliated with “free thinkers” or “free thought”.
You’re KKK friends would obviously resent that.
NeoWolfe
Neoplasm
Making no sense at all seems to be passion of your’s. You could learn to argue rationally but I suppose that would be to much to ask of a free-thinker.
Heres the US Army’s Chaplain’s Corp web site….
http://www.goarmy.com/chaplain/
What:
Hoo-boy, here we go again.
For the umpteenth time, Israel is not committing genocide. Otherwise, there’d be a helluva lot less Palestinians about.
Really? Here is the legal definition of genocide as provided by the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm)
All Whutthole has to do is explain why there were no military incursions into the Fatah controlled West Bank, just in to the missile lobbing, Hamas controlled Gaza Strip. And why Hamas hides their bosses and their launch sites behind human shields, including babies. The genocide is Hamas, committed on their own people, because they deliberately provoked the Israellis until they had no choice but to respond, then hold up their dead babies and accuse Israel of genocide. I’m sure it plays well in the muslim countries, everyone else sees through it. It’s a game they’ve played to death. The world has opened it’s eyes, no one likes terrorists except terrorists. Where does that put you, Whutthole?
NeoWolfe
That’s right, Neoplasm, invade Palestinian territory, heard all the Palestinians into a tiny little region, deprive them of their property, deprive them of their mobility, deprive them of the ability to earn a living, and then blame them for fighting back from the little swatch of land upon which they have been herded – a little swatch where nobody can hide but amongst the people. Then after you have done this label those Palestinian fighters and all that see the apartheid and genocide carried out by Israel as terrorists. Where does that put you?
The neocons thank you for your support.
And the Wiki entry confirms that, & cites that exact definition.
& you know what? It talks also gives specific examples (Darfur, Sudan, Yugoslavia), but Israel is not named.
And in fact, the Int’l Association of Genocide Scholars doesn’t even NAME Israel as a culprit:
http://www.genocidescholars.org/resolutionsstatements.html
So that takes care of that (he said, brushing his palms together, 1, 2, 3 times).
I’ve answered it before, Whutthole, but, I will answer it again, mushroom.
History shows that not a single Palestinian was forced off their land. But the Palestinian powers that be were convinced they could drive the Jews into the sea, and warned any Palestinian who stayed and registered their land claim with the new government would share their fate. Many abandoned their land and moved into refugee camps in the west bank and relinquished their legal claim. Opting for war rather than be ruled by Jews. Didn’t work out well for them.
The Palestinians who stayed are part of a thriving democracy with full citizenship. And their children get blown up as well while your Hamas friends execute their religious agenda. In fact, thousands of Palestinians are allowed past the checkpoints to work in Israel every day. If it weren’t for your heroes, Hamas, there probably would be no check point.
You make me sick, Whutthole, not because you are an atheist, but because you pretend to be a freethinker while you are a pathetic bigot.
NeoWolfe
Neoplasm
Nice Zionist spew. To bad it is total nonsense from end to end.
Israel’s days are numbered. And every Israel knows it!
KA
Gee, you do realize that examples are not complete lists right? Do you realize what examples are used for? – to illustrate the specific from the general. The fact is that what is happening in Israel easily fits the definition. KA down for the count … 8 9 10. KO’d.
to illustarte the specific from the general -> to illustrate the general by the specific.
And I’m STILL awaiting JCC’s response: if a politician/soldier/CO commits a war crime, & claims that some supernatural vision/visitor told him/her to commit it, does a religious tribunal ascertain the source is supernatural, or do we just sent it straight to military tribunal & judge it via materialistic means?
Of course it’s the latter, because people who believe in the supernatural are crazy, in varying degrees according to their pathology.
Is the “god made me do it” excuse any more defensible than “the devil made me do it”? No, nor should it be. Both indicate schizophrenic behavior, hearing voices that instruct them to do things they did not consciously plan. But, there is only one voice you can hear inside your head, and that is your own.
NeoWolfe
That explains a few things. Got ears?
Krys’s question:
…and Krys’s answer:
Who needs a discussion when you have all the answers to begin with?
Sorta like people ask rhetorical questions then answer themselves in the same post… Hmmmm, I wonder if he talks to himself on the subway…
So…what’s your answer? How do you ascertain if this is your ‘gawd’s’ will? Answer the question.
Yeesh, guys, I wanted to hear JCC’s explanation. Let him answer the challenge.
That is, if he’s not too busy hunting around for older threads near closure, so no 1 can respond to his craziness.
JaCCoff doesn’t answer questions.
All he does is take statements out of context and make some simplistic smartass retort. You reply with a followup, ignored. Old pattern.
NeoWolfe
What for? You already have your answer.
Whhhaaaaaaaaa!!! Oh you poor, poor baby—just couldn’t have the last word for once. How hysterical—like I knew Silverman was gonna set an expiration date on that thread when he did…that cinches it; you’re clinically paranoid.
Listen, bozo, you’ve gotten up my nose again w/the ‘pining for an afterlife’ crack – it’s like saying ‘Gee, I like chocolate ice cream’ & you saying ‘oh hey, you’re absolutely JONESING for it’.
Jackass.
KA,
Told ya. The amoeba doesn’t do debates. Just accusations.
NeoWolfe
why don’t you actually answer the question? If I were a theist I’d be embarrassed to be lumped in the same group as you. Sad.
phreedm says:
Our Founding Fathers are as dead as your religion.
What:
Oh, do stop w/the histrionics. If they’re so deprived, how is it they can afford guns & bombs? Or copies of Mein Kampf? There’s no apartheid, & no genocide going on.
Israel’s the only liberal democracy in the ME. They support women’s rights, gay rights, allow Palis to be elected into government – your rhetoric is straight outta a comic book. & way out in left field and WAY off topic.
My turn KA,
Spot on, and well said.
NeoWolfe
You’re the one that brought it off topic, spewing out this Zionist garbage. Shut up and grow a brain.
No I didn’t, & fuck you.
KA
How can they afford guns and bombs? How much does a gun cost in the ME? How much do the crapping little “missiles” of Palis cost? Very little. Would you be happy with a few guns and bombs as a substitute for life and human rights?
South Africa was a democracy too. Just for white people though. Get the picture?
You have made some pretty weak arguments but those were pathetic.
I would be happy if their side learned the fine art of compromise.
We’ve been thru this rhetoric before – Palis get elected to the Knesset, Bantustans never got elected to ANY office in SA.
Oh, spare me your brainwashed blather.
Name me 1 Arab nation that’s allowed a gay pride parade. Did you not SEE my post about the Genocide Scholars?
Oh, that’s right. The facts don’t really matter to a religious person, do they?
KA
And I would be happy if Israelis learned the fine art decency.
Did I say that there is a one-to-one correspondence between the two countries? The fact that there are differences does not negate the fact that the Palis are living under an apartheid.
Israel’s days are numbered and every Israel knows it.
What:
The fact is, the Genocide scholars don’t list anything about Israel, & you’ve yet to respond to that. In fact, you just cherry-picked 1 item & caricatured it. That’s a strawman, mein freund. But, pretty standard for a religious zealot.
So…not even close to being ‘K’O'd’.
That is the lamest argument you have come up with yet. The reason I didn’t address your Genocide scholars post is because they are incompetent and cowardly. The definition of genocide, which the Genocide scholars accepts, clearly applies to what the Israelis are doing to the Palis yet the “Genocide scholars” can’t seem to see that.
Do you accept the definition of genocide that I provided? And does the Israelis behavior fit the definition are the questions. Your “argument from authority” is just lame.
And what’s up with this crap:
and
Who is the religious zealot or religious person that you are referring to. You are losing it guy.
KA,
You speak to Whutthole like you are addressing a person with an open mind. That is what I try to do as well, but, you must at least be beginning to suspect that you are speaking to a fundie who doesn’t believe in god. He has said it himself on this thread alone that he rejects freethought. He doesn’t believe in god, but he does believe in racism. No convincing evidence will reach him, no argument will persuade him, he’s a terrorist sympathizer. If you are having fun making a fool of this asshole, by all means continue, but, if you are trying to make a convert, don’t waste your time. Lost cause.
NeoWolfe
Interesting tidbit from the Israeli Declaration of Independence, I might add:
I’m pretty sure that the apartheid regime had no such clause in ANY of its governmental documents.
What is now searching for the rhetorical mouth-guard that was knocked across the ring…
KA
Lots of countries have constitutions with nice language yet their bad behavior persists. In the final analysis it is always the deeds not the words that matter.
Stop hurting yourself. Remember the rules of Fight Club.
Israel is suppose to be a dumping ground for jews.It has instead become a burden on american taxpayers.You can’t compare white south africa to israel because south africa had to rule savages.South africa was our ally in two wars while israel has attacked us in the past and spies on us.Israel should be treated like russia or china a trade partner and nothing more.
“Trade partner” would be nice, if they’d give us buying credits in the amount of all those billions in aid we’ve sent them. . . .
They attacked ONE SHIP 60 years ago. Yeesh. As to the spying, everyone spies on everyone else. What are you, 12?
KA
What on earth are you responding to in my post. I asked you who are these “religious zealots” that you mentioned in an earlier post which also made no sense to me. Are you
conflating posts? What’s going on?
What:
That’s 100% correct. Thus far, the Israelis don’t honor kill their women, strap bombs onto their children, allow gay pride parades, & actually make the effort to be civilized.
That’s because that’s not happening. If you were 1/2 the rationalist you claim to be, you’d look @ the population numbers from 1948 as compared to 2009. That would shut the ‘genocide’ argument right the fuck up.
Along w/your poison the well tactic – so we’re even, I’d guess.
I’m referring to you. You’re the religious zealot. You blaze in here, hijack the entire thread for your bully pulpit, & repeat your tired old Hamas rhetoric like a broken fucking record.
None of my arguments are ‘lame’ (which is an ad hominem, BTW).
In fact, you’re so full of moonbat guano, your eyes have probably turned green.
KA
It’s interesting that after all your ranting you have still not answered the question that I asked of you. Do you you think the definition that I provided is a good one? If not then offer your own. Arguing rationally shouldn’t be this difficult but you seem to prefer it to be so.
Oh and calling me a religious zealot … do you realize how silly that makes you sound?
Also calling your argumnet “lame” is not an ad hominem. Look up the definition of “ad hominem”. Words mean something.
Krys:
If by “war crime” you mean the unspeakable experiments, mutilations, and real torture the Nazis did to the inmates of their concentration camps, or the kinds of real torture the Japanese did to GI POWs, then this question is fundamentally flawed in its premise—God would never “tell” someone to do such things, making a “religious tribunal” (whatever that would be) unnecessary.
Yep, I’m the one who goes on unprovoked attacks here… still waiting for you to point those out…
Hmmmm. So there is a middle ground there? Still, I bet karen’ll be deeply disappointed in you when she learns you haven’t manned-up to proudly (even gladly) accepting your eminent demise.
Yeah, I know, I deserve these personal attacks…
“God would never “tell” someone to do such things, making a “religious tribunal” (whatever that would be) unnecessary.”
Science will never match the convenient flexibility of God.
Huh?
People conveniently decide for themselves what they want to hear from God. There are plenty of people who have done terrible things because they honestly felt that God had spoken to them, yet the faithful just write it off with ‘well surely God would never tell them to do such a thing.’
God can be whatever the individual wants
I’m talking about any kind of war crime. Stop putting words in my mouth (PTUI!).
Besides which, didn’t your deity torture Job? Send wasps after the Canaanites? Have bears slaughter children for an epithet? There’s PILES of war crimes in your book. Honkey, please.
Since they changed the blog, I’m having serious problems finding a lot of threads. I do recall you attacking me personally when I addressed your points WITHOUT recourse to personal attacks on a thread where you claimed that black holes were the glue that held the universe together. Either that 1, or when we discussed DNA, & you were ignoring valid points about how sloppy the design of it is.
WTF are you talking about? (The word’s imminent, BTW.)
Indeed, WTF are you talking about?
Word to the wise, KA, swine may eat pearls, but they can’t digest them. Save the ones you have left for those who can appreciate them.
NeoWolfe
Oh right. Please forgive my paranoia of political correctness and completely unnecessary compulsion to qualify that phrase…
Now, how did I know you’d come back with something like that?—Actually, no, Satan was the one responsible for the boils, etc. (and I thought you’d read it all
)
Hmmm… and if my memory is correct, 1) it was you who initially insulted me for my assertion on black holes, and 2) that assertion was the amply substantiated theory that black holes were the “glue” that held galaxies together—not the universe.
Huh? So ignoring your so-called valid points constitutes a personal attack?
Uh, the afterlife?—You know, a concept that if true, no one could possibly be dispassionate about?—yet proud atheists (like karen), claim that they’re somehow inspired by, and even revel in, the knowledge of the ultimate futility of their existence.
Thanks, I’ll remember that the next time you indulge your racist demons and call me honky again.
Hey Karen.
Well apparently my laissez faire admission that it’d be nice if there were a supreme being got
taken out of contextkidnapped out of context and held hostage @ gunpoint. I’m glad I haven’t divulged any of my secrets: JCC’s not to be trusted.Lessee, I asked point-blank:
to which your verbatim reply was:
…and that was “taken out of context; kidnapped out of context and held hostage @ gunpoint?” Oh boy, yet another supporting data point that makes my case for your being clinically paranoid.
Oh yeah. I’m a devious, deceitful, malicious prevaricator, I am.
KA
Just to be clear, my WTF was directed at jcc. I looked all through the thread and couldn’t find anything even remotely relating to what he said. I see now that he is digging up an old body to thrash.
Karen,
WTF cares? Xian troll vs Zionist troll — Don’t waste your breath asking!
Listen, maybe you’re deficient in the comprehension department – I’m not the troll here, just because I represent a differing opinion. Nor am I the 1 who hijacked the entire thread.
This ain’t your blog nor mine. So STFU.
NotSoFast
I may not agree with KA on the Israeli issue*, but I’m always interested in what he has to say, as we are fairly old friends in the blogosphere. I don’t consider him to be a troll at all. You are free to feel about him as you wish. I was asking WTF mainly because I didn’t know why I was being dragged into the fray, and could find no reference in the thread.
*I don’t necessarily disagree with him either. I’m a terrible fence-sitter on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Hey doll.
JCC’s been employing this tactic lately – if my opinion differs from someone else’s, he pounces on it immediately. Somehow, we’re all supposed to toe the party line, & if 1 of us doesn’t, well, he perceives that as a weak link of some sort, & attacks the ’straggler’ of the herd.
Hmmm. Sounds familiar, don’t it?
Karen,
Your offer to amicably agree to disagree is noted, and appreciated.
KA,Neowolfe
What maybe on to something about israels days being numbered. i don’t want israel destroyed but that is a very unstable part of the world and i could see things getting out of control.I think more likely israel will collapse from within arab birthrate is higher than jewish birthrate.
Reason
That is one factore in the envitable demise of Israel. Try though they might, the Israel genocide machine would have to accelerate a bit to forestall the inevitable that awaits it. I give Israel ten years … tops.
While not being a point of your post, you bring up the significant Palestinian population living in Israel. Add to that the thousands who are permitted to commute into Israel each day to work. Now, you get the real picture. Whutthole’s Hamas terrorist buddies are raining random “dumb” missiles on their own people.
And given the instability of the region, and the fact that Israel was surrounded by enemies from day one, I think it far more likely that, rather than a demise of Israel in the next ten years, it will be the last man standing.
NeoWolfe
Neoplasm’s neocon and zionist buddies, after wasting military resources on the destruction Iraq and Afghanistan, will have so weakened America that Israel, a state that has never stood on it’s own two feet, will fall to its atrophied knees.
jcc:
You are forgiven, my son.
If I believed in any of those yahoos of yours, I’d say guilt by association.
Yeah, well, can’t find the thread, so moot point.
No, I’m fairly sure you began ravaging my character & didn’t address any points. In fact, I even asked you to, but you went on @ length about my (alleged) inabilities.
So…if someone gets worked up about it, it’s true? If everyone STFU about it, then it’s still true? I mean come on, you can’t be serious?
Belief in the afterlife is obviously poison.
No, it was the asshole maneuver of accusing me of ‘pining for it’, which is a substantially different animal. & the ‘ I knew you were human after all’ horseshit.
But I know you get your jollies off pissing off atheists, you sad, sad little man. It’s some form of mental masturbation w/you. & I’m kinda tired helping you get your rocks off.
KA,
Told ya. JaCCoff dodges around and never answers any tough questions about his faith. He’s a hit and run accuser.
NeoWolfe
Mmmm, how convenient. Oh well, as usual, it comes down to my memory vs. yours.
Sorry, but I’ve never “ravaged” anyone’s character here without having had mine ravaged by them first. And yeah, I’m not much for “turning the other cheek,” especially when doing so only provides a bigger target.
We seemed to have strayed from the original point there—which was your admitted desire for a Divinity. All I was trying to point out was that, regardless of how hard we try to convince ourselves otherwise, everyone will always, at some level, maintain that desire.
Belief, or desire?—and why is it poison?
Sorry, but the phrase “of course I do” makes one sound quite emphatic on the topic. Besides, if there weren’t a significant degree of truth to it then I seriously doubt that it would’ve engendered such a strong response.
No. I “get my jollies” by speaking the truth, and if any atheists get PO’d in the process, well…
Listen – it’s not ‘convenient’ because I distinctly recall asking to you to address the points, not come after me. I’m not making this shit up. You’d know that if you had the slightest inkling of my character (which obviously, you don’t).
You’re also retrofitting my response to your own purpose – which is no surprise. My point is, that it would be nice – justice for all, someone would come along clean up the mess – you know, all that storybook romanticism. The real crux is that the need for a supernatural source isn’t universal – we don’t ALL believe. Of course, you’ll never believe that.
Because it engenders a response in the religious. People want to save up for the afterlife, & if there isn’t 1 (mind you, that’s a big IF, not an opening for you to insert crap into), then it’s a wasted of time, energy, money, etc. Throwing good money after bad, as the adage goes.
Oh, are you fucking kidding me? Let me guess – you never get pissed when someone twists your words all out of true? Chuckle, snort. I’ve seen you do it enough times. Goose.sauce.gander.
LMAO! Yeah, you get your ‘truth’ from such reputable sources.
jcc
How can one be anything but dispassionate when one is dead? And you certainly can’t know if it is a true concept till you do die. And you’ve not yet shown the elusive “soul” to be real, either.
I don’t recall claiming to be inspired by or reveling in “the knowledge of the ultimate futility of…existence”. I don’t doubt you interpreted something I said in that way. Care to remind me what it was? If you’ve got something to say to me, why not just do it, instead of throwing my name around in conversations I’m not part of?
JaCCoff said:
“Uh, the afterlife?—You know, a concept that if true, no one could possibly be dispassionate about?—yet proud atheists (like karen), claim that they’re somehow inspired by, and even revel in, the knowledge of the ultimate futility of their existence.”
Your existence isn’t totally futile, nature is using us from the time we are born alive to do it’s bidding. As soon as you can, you start playing games and having fun with friends, which is just survival skills in training. Then nature uses hormones to convince you of a lie called, “true love”. After you mate with your fellow victim, social conscience forces you to care for the next generation until they are able to fend for themselves. Then you start to die, because you have served your purpose. And when the end comes, people you know may try to preserve a memory of you, but in the grand scheme of the millions of years that is our universe, you never existed. You were used and discarded. So have fun, JaCCoff, the clock is ticking. Embrace the day.
NeoWolfe
Krystalline Apostate says:
That’s twice you’ve repeated that lie.
YOU & NeoWolfe hijacked this thread for another Zionist rant, beginning here.
NSF:
Time for me to hand you your fucking ass again, fucktard.
What hijacked the thread right here.
See, I’m way smarter than you are. Been here way longer too. You keep talking out your ass, you lose all street cred.
Oh wait – too late.
What were you saying about reading comprehension? You’re full of projection these days. Do you ALWAYS accuse others of starting the fights you pick with them?
You keep talking to yourself, but you never listen.
KA
I did not hijack thread. As I pointed out earlier the thread is about the nexus of America, war and religion. Therefore my post in question was on-topic. You may think the thread is about something else. That’s fine. We disagree. Surprise!
The topic was specifically about handing out bibles to muslims, & politicians putting the bibble above the Constitution. Far as I know, it’s not topic-by-vague-association.
Dave’s original post is about many things. I have stated one of those. Discussions lead in many directions. Trying to keep them “on topic” is nothing short of trying to control the possible outcomes of the discussion. If you don’t like the path I or any body else is taking in a discussion then don’t follow it.
Krys:
Hey, your character (or lack thereof) speaks for itself. Here’s a smattering of it:
And that’s just on this thread. Yep, what a classy dude you are.
Unfortunately, you don’t seem to understand your own use of words. I ask if you wish there was a God—to which you respond, “of course I do,” which carries a completely different connotation than “it would be nice”—then you have the temerity to accuse me of misrepresenting what you said—maybe you should choose your words more carefully.
Do you not comprehend the words I write? I didn’t say we all believed, I said we all desire it.
Another fundamentally flawed premise. You can’t “save up” for something you can’t buy—it’s that, you know, grace thing again.
Only when it’s done out of malice.
Swearing’s not indicative of a lack of character. In fact, a large % of that is due to years of your contextomy.
Hey, I gotta lotta class. Unfortunately, all of it’s low
I’m not gonna walk on eggshells around you: it’s obvious you distort items to your own purpose. I need to explain that ‘of course I do’ is connected to my previous admission on the subject? Are you effin’ kidding me?
Ah-HA! So, that’s an absolute, & a broad generalization. Can you prove that? There are studies that show that every human DESIRES a SUPERNATURAL source?
Got proof.
That’s not how people think. Your ‘hypothetical’ afterlife – so you’re telling me people NEVER EVER shoot for improving their chances in it?
Well then…does that extend to your own personal opinion, or also to opinions you value?
JCC
I don’t. Therefore you are wrong.
Imsofast:
Are you fucking kidding me? I don’t start these donnybrooks: I point out where I think the opinion is wrong, & the discussion ensues from there.
& in fact, LICK MY SKIDMARKS. You’re the dipfuck who wanders in & starts calling me names like some middle school dropout. In fact, the FIRST time I inserted a contrary opinion, you asked me if I was brain-damaged. Remember that? On this thread, you called me a Zionist troll as well as a liar.
We all know you’re What’s butt boy, but you don’t have to be so blatant about it.
Try using some actual logic & evidence, instead of peer pressure for a change, like an adult would.
… like an adult would.
Further proof of hypocrisy.
Freethinkers,
Have you ever wondered why we waste our time arguing with amoebas? Are we just that bored? I have a better idea. I just met up with an atheist group last Sunday. Nicest bunch of guys I can ever remember meeting. Not a Whutthole in the whole group. Let’s all freethinkers hook up with a local group. And don’t give the agnostics and the humanists any grief, because we all agree on one idea, “no deity guides the affairs of humanity, and therefore the fate of humanity is our own hands”.
NeoWolfe
Neoplasm
There are few free thinkers here. Most of us constrain our thinking with facts and valid theory. You add nothing to this blog.
Last I heard from you, you reject freethought. And judging from your collective profile, you are a NeoNazi, and you are telling me that I add nothing to this blog? You are an embarrassment to freethinkers. And I guess that’s unavoidable, because if freethinkers adopt a set of beliefs that filter out amoebas like you, they just become another religion. We’re stuck with you Whutthole, no matter how embarrassing you become.
NeoWolfe
The exchange Krystalline Apostate refers to above runs from here to here, Krystalline Apostate posting under the name “reluctantatheist “.
I’d advise you let go of your hurt feelings, junior.
& yeah, I started that 1. Of course, you can’t hear both sides of an argument, & I have the history that you don’t w/both of those guys.
I wasn’t addressing you – you decided to stick your nose into something that really didn’t concern you.
I didn’t post under that name – the S/W was haywire @ the time. But from what I can tell, you don’t have an irony meter, & you’re mindlessly parroting talking tricks because you ain’t too damn good @ debate.
Polly wanna cracker?
Oh hey wait – that was ANOTHER thread what hijacked w/his Hamas rhetoric. Wasn’t even ABOUT Israel. So thanks! You just proved my point – again.
KA
I didn’t hijack this or any other thread. Threads simply can’t be expected to lead in only the direction you would like them to.
The Zionist troll continues it’s onesided pissing “contest”:
That’s a very old one.
KA,
You can lead a horse’s ass to water, but you can’t make him think.
NeoWolfe
KA,
You are debating with the Ku Klux Klan here. If you are having fun, by all means continue. If you are trying make converts, you are wasting your time. It’s about the difference between believing there is no god, and being a freethinker. Face it, some atheists are just amoebas. They can’t be reasoned with. You can’t confuse them with the facts because their spinal ganglia is made up.
NeoWolfe
This is a little late, but I just ran across this wonderful response to the Charlotte Allen LA Times article: http://tinyurl.com/qfgosb
What:
That’s very true. & it works both ways. The burning question is why you feel the constant need to divert threads on your favorite topic on a regular basis.
IMTOOFAST:
I’m not the troll sonny: I’ve been a valued member of this blog since 2006. In fact, prior to the S/W update, I had administrative rights. NTM that I’m also on the blogroll. NTM I’m a team member of God Is 4 Suckers!
& since your reading comprehension is so poor, the definition of troll is:
As a rule, I usually tend to disagree, & I usually don’t start the name-calling.
‘It’s’ should be ‘its’, thereby demonstrating a tenuous grasp of the language.
& I’m a guy, not an ‘it’, which is more substandard mentality.
Yes, I think I do finally see a point in there. You think “winning a debate” means having the last word. So you can start one anytime, and “win” just by persistently making an ass of yourself until “the other side” realizes you’re not worth their attention.
Thanks for teaching me that about yourself. I won’t forget.
Wrong again. Do you ever tire of being wrong? FYI – I’ve lost debates here. In actuality, it was here that I was challenged about my anti-Israel views. It caused me to take a profound look @ a subject I’d only had a cursory knowledge of.
So, faced w/the reality of the situation, I changed my mind. It was tough eating crow, but hey, being a rational thinker also consists of admitting 1 is wrong.
So now I get called names, where once I jeered.
Life’s funny, ain’t it?
KA,
I think maybe you just bitch slapped an amoeba. A little wake up call for those who think that the answers to the human condition can be learned at a KKK hate rally. I have acquired a new respect for you, for what little that might be worth.
NeoWolfe