Although it’s not really a surprise, recent availability of Defense documents clearly show that the Bush administration thought of the war in Iraq as a religious crusade — meant at least in part to spread Christianity in the Islamic world.
Just like the Moslems said, and just as we all feared.
People died, and still die, on both sides of this useless and possibly illegal war. Indeed, they are still using American Soldiers to spread Christian Bibles (which carries a death penalty if they get caught).
Military Religious Freedom Foundation statement on the Bagram scandal.
From Public Record, “Rights Group Uncovers Other Cases Of Military Proselytizing Christianity to Muslims.”
The lesson we should learn here is obvious: politicians should be disqualified from holding office if they place their bible above the constitution. It’s not about religious freedom, it’s about priorities — if America is not your #1 priority, then you have a conflict of interest and shouldn’t be in charge.
It’s ironic that this comes out as the LA Times published an opinion that we atheists are boring and complain a lot. I admit it does get tiresome to continually fight idiots who want to kill people for their own religious gains, but the “boring” fighting will continue until America steps up and stops electing idiots and zealots for leaders.
I wonder what the LA times would say to the families of the soldiers who went to war thinking they were defending America, but died defending Bush’s religion.
Karen,
WTF cares? Xian troll vs Zionist troll — Don’t waste your breath asking!
Listen, maybe you’re deficient in the comprehension department – I’m not the troll here, just because I represent a differing opinion. Nor am I the 1 who hijacked the entire thread.
This ain’t your blog nor mine. So STFU.
NotSoFast
I may not agree with KA on the Israeli issue*, but I’m always interested in what he has to say, as we are fairly old friends in the blogosphere. I don’t consider him to be a troll at all. You are free to feel about him as you wish. I was asking WTF mainly because I didn’t know why I was being dragged into the fray, and could find no reference in the thread.
*I don’t necessarily disagree with him either. I’m a terrible fence-sitter on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Hey doll.
JCC’s been employing this tactic lately – if my opinion differs from someone else’s, he pounces on it immediately. Somehow, we’re all supposed to toe the party line, & if 1 of us doesn’t, well, he perceives that as a weak link of some sort, & attacks the ‘straggler’ of the herd.
Hmmm. Sounds familiar, don’t it?
Karen,
Your offer to amicably agree to disagree is noted, and appreciated.
KA,Neowolfe
What maybe on to something about israels days being numbered. i don’t want israel destroyed but that is a very unstable part of the world and i could see things getting out of control.I think more likely israel will collapse from within arab birthrate is higher than jewish birthrate.
Reason
That is one factore in the envitable demise of Israel. Try though they might, the Israel genocide machine would have to accelerate a bit to forestall the inevitable that awaits it. I give Israel ten years … tops.
While not being a point of your post, you bring up the significant Palestinian population living in Israel. Add to that the thousands who are permitted to commute into Israel each day to work. Now, you get the real picture. Whutthole’s Hamas terrorist buddies are raining random “dumb” missiles on their own people.
And given the instability of the region, and the fact that Israel was surrounded by enemies from day one, I think it far more likely that, rather than a demise of Israel in the next ten years, it will be the last man standing.
NeoWolfe
Neoplasm’s neocon and zionist buddies, after wasting military resources on the destruction Iraq and Afghanistan, will have so weakened America that Israel, a state that has never stood on it’s own two feet, will fall to its atrophied knees.
jcc:
You are forgiven, my son.
If I believed in any of those yahoos of yours, I’d say guilt by association.
Yeah, well, can’t find the thread, so moot point.
No, I’m fairly sure you began ravaging my character & didn’t address any points. In fact, I even asked you to, but you went on @ length about my (alleged) inabilities.
So…if someone gets worked up about it, it’s true? If everyone STFU about it, then it’s still true? I mean come on, you can’t be serious?
Belief in the afterlife is obviously poison.
No, it was the asshole maneuver of accusing me of ‘pining for it’, which is a substantially different animal. & the ‘ I knew you were human after all’ horseshit.
But I know you get your jollies off pissing off atheists, you sad, sad little man. It’s some form of mental masturbation w/you. & I’m kinda tired helping you get your rocks off.
KA,
Told ya. JaCCoff dodges around and never answers any tough questions about his faith. He’s a hit and run accuser.
NeoWolfe
Mmmm, how convenient. Oh well, as usual, it comes down to my memory vs. yours.
Sorry, but I’ve never “ravaged” anyone’s character here without having had mine ravaged by them first. And yeah, I’m not much for “turning the other cheek,” especially when doing so only provides a bigger target.
We seemed to have strayed from the original point there—which was your admitted desire for a Divinity. All I was trying to point out was that, regardless of how hard we try to convince ourselves otherwise, everyone will always, at some level, maintain that desire.
Belief, or desire?—and why is it poison?
Sorry, but the phrase “of course I do” makes one sound quite emphatic on the topic. Besides, if there weren’t a significant degree of truth to it then I seriously doubt that it would’ve engendered such a strong response.
No. I “get my jollies” by speaking the truth, and if any atheists get PO’d in the process, well…
Listen – it’s not ‘convenient’ because I distinctly recall asking to you to address the points, not come after me. I’m not making this shit up. You’d know that if you had the slightest inkling of my character (which obviously, you don’t).
You’re also retrofitting my response to your own purpose – which is no surprise. My point is, that it would be nice – justice for all, someone would come along clean up the mess – you know, all that storybook romanticism. The real crux is that the need for a supernatural source isn’t universal – we don’t ALL believe. Of course, you’ll never believe that.
Because it engenders a response in the religious. People want to save up for the afterlife, & if there isn’t 1 (mind you, that’s a big IF, not an opening for you to insert crap into), then it’s a wasted of time, energy, money, etc. Throwing good money after bad, as the adage goes.
Oh, are you fucking kidding me? Let me guess – you never get pissed when someone twists your words all out of true? Chuckle, snort. I’ve seen you do it enough times. Goose.sauce.gander.
LMAO! Yeah, you get your ‘truth’ from such reputable sources.
jcc
How can one be anything but dispassionate when one is dead? And you certainly can’t know if it is a true concept till you do die. And you’ve not yet shown the elusive “soul” to be real, either.
I don’t recall claiming to be inspired by or reveling in “the knowledge of the ultimate futility of…existence”. I don’t doubt you interpreted something I said in that way. Care to remind me what it was? If you’ve got something to say to me, why not just do it, instead of throwing my name around in conversations I’m not part of?
JaCCoff said:
“Uh, the afterlife?—You know, a concept that if true, no one could possibly be dispassionate about?—yet proud atheists (like karen), claim that they’re somehow inspired by, and even revel in, the knowledge of the ultimate futility of their existence.”
Your existence isn’t totally futile, nature is using us from the time we are born alive to do it’s bidding. As soon as you can, you start playing games and having fun with friends, which is just survival skills in training. Then nature uses hormones to convince you of a lie called, “true love”. After you mate with your fellow victim, social conscience forces you to care for the next generation until they are able to fend for themselves. Then you start to die, because you have served your purpose. And when the end comes, people you know may try to preserve a memory of you, but in the grand scheme of the millions of years that is our universe, you never existed. You were used and discarded. So have fun, JaCCoff, the clock is ticking. Embrace the day.
NeoWolfe
Krystalline Apostate says:
That’s twice you’ve repeated that lie.
YOU & NeoWolfe hijacked this thread for another Zionist rant, beginning here.
NSF:
Time for me to hand you your fucking ass again, fucktard.
What hijacked the thread right here.
See, I’m way smarter than you are. Been here way longer too. You keep talking out your ass, you lose all street cred.
Oh wait – too late.
What were you saying about reading comprehension? You’re full of projection these days. Do you ALWAYS accuse others of starting the fights you pick with them?
You keep talking to yourself, but you never listen.
KA
I did not hijack thread. As I pointed out earlier the thread is about the nexus of America, war and religion. Therefore my post in question was on-topic. You may think the thread is about something else. That’s fine. We disagree. Surprise!
The topic was specifically about handing out bibles to muslims, & politicians putting the bibble above the Constitution. Far as I know, it’s not topic-by-vague-association.
Dave’s original post is about many things. I have stated one of those. Discussions lead in many directions. Trying to keep them “on topic” is nothing short of trying to control the possible outcomes of the discussion. If you don’t like the path I or any body else is taking in a discussion then don’t follow it.
Krys:
Hey, your character (or lack thereof) speaks for itself. Here’s a smattering of it:
And that’s just on this thread. Yep, what a classy dude you are.
Unfortunately, you don’t seem to understand your own use of words. I ask if you wish there was a God—to which you respond, “of course I do,” which carries a completely different connotation than “it would be nice”—then you have the temerity to accuse me of misrepresenting what you said—maybe you should choose your words more carefully.
Do you not comprehend the words I write? I didn’t say we all believed, I said we all desire it.
Another fundamentally flawed premise. You can’t “save up” for something you can’t buy—it’s that, you know, grace thing again.
Only when it’s done out of malice.
Swearing’s not indicative of a lack of character. In fact, a large % of that is due to years of your contextomy.
Hey, I gotta lotta class. Unfortunately, all of it’s low
I’m not gonna walk on eggshells around you: it’s obvious you distort items to your own purpose. I need to explain that ‘of course I do’ is connected to my previous admission on the subject? Are you effin’ kidding me?
Ah-HA! So, that’s an absolute, & a broad generalization. Can you prove that? There are studies that show that every human DESIRES a SUPERNATURAL source?
Got proof.
That’s not how people think. Your ‘hypothetical’ afterlife – so you’re telling me people NEVER EVER shoot for improving their chances in it?
Well then…does that extend to your own personal opinion, or also to opinions you value?
JCC
I don’t. Therefore you are wrong.
Imsofast:
Are you fucking kidding me? I don’t start these donnybrooks: I point out where I think the opinion is wrong, & the discussion ensues from there.
& in fact, LICK MY SKIDMARKS. You’re the dipfuck who wanders in & starts calling me names like some middle school dropout. In fact, the FIRST time I inserted a contrary opinion, you asked me if I was brain-damaged. Remember that? On this thread, you called me a Zionist troll as well as a liar.
We all know you’re What’s butt boy, but you don’t have to be so blatant about it.
Try using some actual logic & evidence, instead of peer pressure for a change, like an adult would.
… like an adult would.
Further proof of hypocrisy.
Freethinkers,
Have you ever wondered why we waste our time arguing with amoebas? Are we just that bored? I have a better idea. I just met up with an atheist group last Sunday. Nicest bunch of guys I can ever remember meeting. Not a Whutthole in the whole group. Let’s all freethinkers hook up with a local group. And don’t give the agnostics and the humanists any grief, because we all agree on one idea, “no deity guides the affairs of humanity, and therefore the fate of humanity is our own hands”.
NeoWolfe
Neoplasm
There are few free thinkers here. Most of us constrain our thinking with facts and valid theory. You add nothing to this blog.
Last I heard from you, you reject freethought. And judging from your collective profile, you are a NeoNazi, and you are telling me that I add nothing to this blog? You are an embarrassment to freethinkers. And I guess that’s unavoidable, because if freethinkers adopt a set of beliefs that filter out amoebas like you, they just become another religion. We’re stuck with you Whutthole, no matter how embarrassing you become.
NeoWolfe
The exchange Krystalline Apostate refers to above runs from here to here, Krystalline Apostate posting under the name “reluctantatheist “.
I’d advise you let go of your hurt feelings, junior.
& yeah, I started that 1. Of course, you can’t hear both sides of an argument, & I have the history that you don’t w/both of those guys.
I wasn’t addressing you – you decided to stick your nose into something that really didn’t concern you.
I didn’t post under that name – the S/W was haywire @ the time. But from what I can tell, you don’t have an irony meter, & you’re mindlessly parroting talking tricks because you ain’t too damn good @ debate.
Polly wanna cracker?
Oh hey wait – that was ANOTHER thread what hijacked w/his Hamas rhetoric. Wasn’t even ABOUT Israel. So thanks! You just proved my point – again.
KA
I didn’t hijack this or any other thread. Threads simply can’t be expected to lead in only the direction you would like them to.
The Zionist troll continues it’s onesided pissing “contest”:
That’s a very old one.
KA,
You can lead a horse’s ass to water, but you can’t make him think.
NeoWolfe
KA,
You are debating with the Ku Klux Klan here. If you are having fun, by all means continue. If you are trying make converts, you are wasting your time. It’s about the difference between believing there is no god, and being a freethinker. Face it, some atheists are just amoebas. They can’t be reasoned with. You can’t confuse them with the facts because their spinal ganglia is made up.
NeoWolfe
This is a little late, but I just ran across this wonderful response to the Charlotte Allen LA Times article: http://tinyurl.com/qfgosb
What:
That’s very true. & it works both ways. The burning question is why you feel the constant need to divert threads on your favorite topic on a regular basis.
IMTOOFAST:
I’m not the troll sonny: I’ve been a valued member of this blog since 2006. In fact, prior to the S/W update, I had administrative rights. NTM that I’m also on the blogroll. NTM I’m a team member of God Is 4 Suckers!
& since your reading comprehension is so poor, the definition of troll is:
As a rule, I usually tend to disagree, & I usually don’t start the name-calling.
‘It’s’ should be ‘its’, thereby demonstrating a tenuous grasp of the language.
& I’m a guy, not an ‘it’, which is more substandard mentality.
Yes, I think I do finally see a point in there. You think “winning a debate” means having the last word. So you can start one anytime, and “win” just by persistently making an ass of yourself until “the other side” realizes you’re not worth their attention.
Thanks for teaching me that about yourself. I won’t forget.
Wrong again. Do you ever tire of being wrong? FYI – I’ve lost debates here. In actuality, it was here that I was challenged about my anti-Israel views. It caused me to take a profound look @ a subject I’d only had a cursory knowledge of.
So, faced w/the reality of the situation, I changed my mind. It was tough eating crow, but hey, being a rational thinker also consists of admitting 1 is wrong.
So now I get called names, where once I jeered.
Life’s funny, ain’t it?
KA,
I think maybe you just bitch slapped an amoeba. A little wake up call for those who think that the answers to the human condition can be learned at a KKK hate rally. I have acquired a new respect for you, for what little that might be worth.
NeoWolfe