I just got off the phone with KDKA in Pittsburgh (thanks for having me on), where the polite Christian hosts asked be some standard questions, the last of which I now put to you.
Do you get offended when someone says “I’ll pray for you”?
While I understand that 1) their praying for me does nothing but waste their own time and 2) they are trying do what they think is good, I replied that yes, I DO take offense.
I’ve been married to a theist for 18 years and have never tried to convert her. My daughter is an atheist, not from my drumming it into her, but through thought and contemplation. There is no need or desire for me to try to change anyone against their wishes.
But when someone prays for me, they are trying to change me against my wishes. Yes, of course it will fail, but as the old saying goes “it’s the thought that counts”, and this thought is negative. They are trying to convince their god to “open my heart” or whatever other metaphor they wish to use for “convert by force using your supernatural powers”.
Indeed, praying for someone is an act of religious intolerance.
I second neowolfe’s claim. phreedm, the intervention of Christianity into politics was a major cause for the so-called “Dark Ages”. I just took a class on Byzantium at the world’s top public university with a MacArthur Genius award winning professor, and believe me, you can’t deny that religion played an integral part in causing the “Dark Ages” because religion basically pervaded every aspect of life. There really is no other explanation. I welcome your attempt to convince me of one.
Someone said:
Twas no compliment. I said seem, but from your reply, I guess not. It was an observation that you have been more or less hypnotized by your faith. Like the man who when commanded to “bark like a dog” barks, you bark where ever religion is involved. Without reason, without thought, just a conditioned impulse, a reflexive knee-jerk reaction is all you can manage where religion is concerned. A hopeless case indeed.
She like me was probably rendered speechless. Your abstract comment having no meaning. Another case of reversal, which I indicated earlier, is easily spotted, and rejected. Reversing a comment back upon the commentor is a common tactic used by dogma entrenched believers who have run out of ammunition.
I prayed this morn…but that sick, demented, twisted, perverted,sadistic judeo-christian,islamic,god too was busy to respond cause he was “designing” more creatures whose primary method of survival was killing, slaughtering and consuming other creatures.
god=love(of slaughter)
THe “Dark Ages” had many parents, not the least of which was the control by the Unholy matrimony of church and state of the access to knowledge.
During that time a proverb emerged that exemplified the lack of acccess to knowledge:” Tis only a fool who lends a book.But a greater fool returns it.”
When the Gutenberg removable type printing press and other technological advancemnents began to break the church/state monopoly of the dissemnation of knowledge, an age of “enlightenment” began to emerge , which led directly to the framing of the USA’s SECULAR constitution, throwing off the yoke of political religious tyranny by the unholy matrimony of church and state that had corrupted and debased humanity for 1600 years.
“What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.” [Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]
“Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. [James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]“
Neowolfe said:
I too would like to hear this. I have my own thoughts on this as well.
Maybe it’s possible that God could be said to be comparable to the superego of Freuds old theories of the mind. The Devil would be the Id, and of course, we are the ego, twisted this way and that by the other two. It’s (religion) all in the head so God, the Devil, and the human are one. Usually either God, or Devil are expressed, which would be viewed as a duality of the mind which many people have hinted at. When you ask “should I do this” who are you talking to type questions.
onesself!
Me myself and I?
“…Gutenberg MOVABLE…” I should have typed.
I am, sayeth the Lord?
Si, por supesto…m/m/i
“I am” sayeth THIS Yahweh(not yours or anyone’s “lord”)
Si, por supesto…m/m/i ?
“Si, por supesto…m/m/i” =
“yes, of course, me/myself/I”
neowolfe says:
May 9, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Your god is really the devil, they are both the same imaginary person, and I can use history and your bible to prove it.
I cannot conceive a way to go about proving such a thing with the use of the Bible, but I have always maintained that Christianity has at least 4 gods, and probably 5 or more with the way that Catholics treat Mary. The trinity has always been a convenient cover for polytheism, but it is really no different. The devil must be a god as well, or else how would he have any power to corrupt in the face of the three other Gods in heaven. We could also make the argument that, with the current state of the world and all the times God had to spread his wrath on earth, that Satan is more powerful and been winning the war of good and evil.
Keep up the good work gods.
“Thus sayeth the Lord”… “Thus sayeth Yahweh”….
Yes, just as you both sayed.
eat shit fuck sleep….gobble nipple chew
Phreedumb quoted me then said:
Your god is really the devil, they are both the same imaginary person, and I can use history and your bible to prove it.
OK…please do
dw got interested and said:
“I too would like to hear this. I have my own thoughts on this as well.”
It’s really not so complicated. God creates angels. God is perfect therefore all his creations are perfect. Theists will argue that god gave them free will, but, how does a perfect creature make an imperfect decision? He loves and admires himself and covets god’s throne, more than he desires god’s intended plan. Okay, he deceived Eve, who deceived him? Serious hardwire issues. He thinks he can replace god? Does he think he can kill god? LOL. Take over the territory? Perfection my ass.
The only explanation for Satan is an intentional antagonist on which you could blame all suffering. Unfortunately that angel was the creation of the perfect god.
Can I rest my case now? I can go on in much more detail about Yahweh the Murdering Monster.
NeoWolfe
I always thought that the reason why the devil was allowed to continue to exist was that he made too good of a scapegoat. Without him around the church would actually have to look inward, which is definitely something they wanted to avoid at all costs.
Plus you know, it is mighty effective at scaring children, which is always a plus when it comes to religion.
reason:
A. Wasn’t working @ the polls, &
B. He was a US citizen.
Atheist: I am an Atheist.
Theist: I will pray for you.
Atheist: I guess that’s better than preying upon me.
“I will pray for you” is theist for “fuck you”.
When someone says they will pray for me, I take it that they are just wishing me their best in the way they think (of course it is a weird idea to me). Everyone I know, knows my beliefs and realize I don’t think their prayers have any magical power over me. However, if I am going through something difficult, it is nice to know people are thinking about me and wishing me the best. I think there is some psychological benefit to it (placebo effect). I am in a family with varying degrees of religious belief. When everyone says they are praying for someone who is going through difficult time, I tell the person, I am thinking about them and if there were a god, it would accept my thoughts as prayers. We are trying to support each other and I think me offering my thoughts offers some psychological support to the person. I don’t think we benefit from being in the face of people we love when they need support. That is one reason when I ordered solstice cards a few years ago from American Atheists, I did not send them out. The message on the back about the mythical god is IMO inappropriate when sending friends holiday wishes. There is a time for discussion and debate. Sending a card during the Christmas season to friends and pointing out that their beliefs are silly, is a way to lose friends. I think we need to lighten up sometimes.