Another person who will be attending the convention is John Lombard, and I am very eager to hear what he has to say. He was involved with the first organization in Beijing that promoted Critical Thinking.As most know, Atheism is nearly mandated (there… better?) in China, as it was in the USSR. People often compare us to communists for that reason (a nod to American Communists, who are also atheists, but do not support forced atheism). Here’s the rub — when given even the slightest bit of religious freedom, the people of China will cling to any mythology onto which they can grasp their hands. They were not trained in critical thinking, but merely to follow orders. This makes them very open to Voodoo or ancient mythologies, and Christianity (same thing) when it is presented to them.Atheism needs to be the result of critical thinking (in fact, it is an inevitable result), not an order from a higher power (government). One can draw clear and scary parallels between China and America, where critical thinking is simply not enough of a priority in the school system.
rainbows4dinosaurs:
Rant? Here’s a thought; how ’bout criticizing my ideas rather than me personally?
Yeah? One that teaches by example to slander those with whom you disagree???–that’s the slime.
So you boast of your profanity and disrespect of others to your kids?
Yes, you’ve worn my patience thin again, but have I lowered the tone of the conversation?
Not quite. If we didn’t care, we’d leave you alone…
I would if you had any.
Your lack of self-awareness is… well, I guess it’s hardly surprising.
Uh… yes you have, “Sherlock.” I’m not sure I’d be so proud of this method you’ve cultivated of replacing explicatives with silly phrases like “doesn’t know his lower orifice from a hole in the ground.” Oh… you’re soooooo pure. I guess you’ve at least proven that eating soap doesn’t stop a person from being a jerk. In fact, it only makes you a self-righteous jerk. Congrats.
Now go berate your liberal coworkers like a good dittohead. El Rushbo commands you!
No need for acronyms here: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Your penchant for double-standards is now public record.
rainbows4dinosaurs:
You know, you’re right. I could’ve just as easily made my argument without the gratuitous remark referencing a perceived inability of yours. It added nothing and did lower the tone of the discussion, and for that I apologize. Like you, I am not perfect and when my patience runs short I let my base reactions get the better of me. I will strive not to do so in the future.
Hmm… how about forced xtianity?
http://tinyurl.com/bwr5wy
I hate to, but I feel compelled. What chided this inteligent input:
” I can’t wait for my NeoWolfe decoder ring.”
Response: I can’t wait for my official Hamas necklace made of baby teeth of official martyr human shields. My god you’re pathetic.
Now, It’s my turn, JCC said this:
“Rant? Here’s a thought; how ’bout criticizing my ideas rather than me personally?”
Response: The old wisdom is that you are what you do. Talking is something that you DO. Talking is an expression of your ideas and beliefs which dictate the traits of your personality. Therefore, this question is fundamentally idiotic. Your ideas ARE your personality.
Now, JCC, you have already admitted that you don’t believe that the story of the flood is literal. Will you pick and choose which parts of your (Iliad of Homer) that are literal and which are divinely inspired truth? Again, you don’t have to throw away your doubts and intuition in order to shed the ancient gods and heroes. Just take a razor sharp, honest look at the sanity of what you find yourself believing. You will find that they have used your fear of death, a natural function of survival, as a weapon to manipulate your mind. Do you have the courage to really look in the mirror?
NeoWolfe
neowolfe:
That “wisdom” only applies to those who regard themselves as existentialists — existence precedes essence, you know.
Only from your point of view.
Wow! Now that’s a stretch. So, does that mean that every time I change my ideas, my personality must change as well? If so, what causes this change? — my personality (which according to you is a manifestation of what I do) couldn’t have done it since it apparently can only react to external stimuli. Seems you’ve posited quite a logical pretzel there.
I did? When? Where? All I’ve said on the matter is that I literally believe that it was a regional flood, not a global one.
No, I regard all of the Bible as being true.
Did that. And the Bible withstood the scrutiny.
No “they” didn’t. I went searching for the truth and I found it.
Yes. I have, do you?
And please, please learn to use blockquotes…
Jcc…You are a complete idiot. Your idea’s, thoughts, expressions, these are ALL part of you, Yes when you change a thought your personality (Whether small or large) changes as well. You say you take all the bible as true, but the flood was a regional flood..wait..the bible says the flood was a globe flooding, what is true? If the bible were true wouldnt it say something along the lines of so and so nation flooded or hilalala village flooded, neo was completely right, you pick and choose what is right, yet say it withstood your judgement. If that withstands your judgement than truly you are a misguided and sad man. All you have is a twisted logic, you twist words and make it appear as if your thoughts were something meaningful. You live a sad life, and i say your life has become this way due to the bible you so worship. Honestly, you believe some wizard up in the sky cast magic on earth and controls everything? I strongly suggest you seek help with that one.
teop_suoiciv:
No. They’re manifestations of my mind; they do not define me, I define them, and when I’ve determined that they are no longer valid, I change them without undergoing a corresponding personality change.
Given what you just said regarding thoughts and personality, you might want to reconsider the target of that assertion.
I’m sorry; I don’t recall ever having met you.
Done that. And may I suggest that you would benefit greatly from some interpersonal skills counseling?
This is a letter to JCC,
I know that in the past, I have been derisive, dismissive and insulting. While I feel no need to retract anything I’ve said, I have a new feeling about you and Phreedumb and a new curiosity what pathology brings you here.
While contributers here call you idiots, as I have done as well, the content of your posts, while being more obstructionist in nature, rather than pointing to an intelligent conclusion, do exhibit an fairly high order of intelligence. I am not surprised. My parents were JW’s, and while neither of them were stupid, they believed stupid things. But let’s boil it down now, because there is no going back, you said in resonse to my statement:
“JCC, you have already admitted that you don’t believe that the story of the flood is literal.”
This deception, tantemount to hellworthy lie:
“I did? When? Where? All I’ve said on the matter is that I literally believe that it was a regional flood, not a global one.”
Do I need to quote you further on how you have put your beliefs to the test and found that the bible is divinely inspired? I can, and you know I can, and you, as a fairly inteligent person realize that you have entrapped yourself in a position where you must admit that a paradox exists in your head. Did King James select exactly all the divinely inspired texts and throw away the rest so that we can be sure that every word in today’s bible is the word of god, OR….. can we pick and choose what is truth or not. Or is it the third option, it’s all bullshit, interesting reading if you have nothing better to do.
You blinked JCC. You admitted that the flood account is bullshit, but, you still want to say the bible is divinely inspired truth. Too late. And if it’s not, and obviously it’s not, where do YOU decide what to believe and not believe?
Agnostism is a place where unresolved doubts are okay, but idiotic denial is unwelcome. Go look at that mirror again and this time open your fucking eyes.
NeoWolfe
neowolfe:
Like you, I “feel no need to retract anything I’ve said” regarding that, so go right ahead if you think that will help satisfy your newfound curiosity about me and phreedm.
No, I haven’t, and no, I don’t. Why do you keep saying things like that? If you believe you’re psychic, you’re wrong. You obviously don’t know how I think.
With the exception of Noah and his family, the Genesis flood wiped out all of mankind — i.e. the entire world — which at the time could have quite possibly resided entirely within the region of Mesopotamia. No paradox, no equivocating. No global flood required.
No, the Canon had been closed for well over a millennium.
No, we can’t. The truth is the truth whether we believe it is or not.
That’s certainly your prerogative to believe.
No I didn’t. If anyone blinked, it was you with your fallacious assertion about personality and thoughts.
I DID NOT. I applied a textual criticism to the Hebrew account and found, in light of the geologic evidence of the area, that it withstood my scrutiny.
Because I have yet to be able to determine otherwise.
Again, that’s your opinion of it.
The same place you do: by virtue of free will.
I disagree. I’ve found it to be a place of intellectual laziness; a cowardly resort for those lacking the fortitude to confront the truth and all its consequences.
Do you really think that will actually inspire me in any way?
And hey, using blockquotes is fun and easy. It’s as simple as surrounding your quote with tags like this:
<blockquote>text to be blockquoted</blockquote>
which will look like this when posted:
In the beginning there was this void….
Then it got a bit muddled….
Central message of the Bible
God created everything (including himself presumably)
But neglected to go into much detail leaving his audience to pretty well make it up and guess.
(This was to become a bit of a problem; when a few people began to figure out just how big and old it all is. After all we were made in his image and we were getting smaller and smaller in the scheme of things).
Jews kept God in a box, only a few were allowed to see it and then very rarely, then they lost it
Then found a guy pretending to be God (Well his son)
And hung him
Then his followers wrote another book and attached it to the Old one. (the one with all the made up stories)
His claim to fame…….
Christmas joy, It’s a boy
Virgin Mary’s not so coy.
Five feet nine he’s divine,
Changes water into wine.
He’s no fool, keeps real cool,
Walks across ‘the swimming pool’.
Bread and fish what a dish,
Fed five thousand ‘piece of piss’.
It’s a lark after dark,
Kissing Judas in the park.
Long white robes Jewish nose,
Hangs about with the Holy Ghost.
It’s too bad, and quite sad,
Having to die, to see your dad.
He’s not frail, but went quite pale
They crossed his legs to save a nail.
Then 1500 years later some followers thought for themselves and fell out with the bosses.
Lots of bloodletting and killing later we had two churches.
During the next five hundred years or so the churches were to split again and again and again, lots more killing and ethnic cleansing.
Then most countries became Democracies and became secular (The rulers owing their allegiances to the people rather than a church in another country)
Then we had the technology explosion Radio, TV and the Internet
Freedom at last…… Well no
Then we had freedom from religious intolerance and an explosion of new age religions ALL claiming the same rights as the old ones, i.e. TAX BREAKS.
The Older religions caught on and learned to use the power of propaganda rather than the Stake or sword and found that it was more efficient to bribe and coerce people into staying inline through the power of money.
Then politicians became aware of the power of the churches i.e. Money and votes.
So where are we now…. Well we have multi millionaire TV Evangelists living lives of luxury….. Telling the same old stories.
Keeping their followers in the dark and feeding them the same old shit.
no JCC, an argument that all humanity lived in mesopatamia is a ridiculous distraction:
” 8:21 And the Lord smelled the soothing aroma and said to himself, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, even though the inclination of their minds is evil from childhood on. I will never again destroy everything that lives, as I have just done. 22 “While the earth continues to exist, planting time and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, and day and night will not cease.â€Â
Your loving forgiving god just confessed to killing everything that lives. Done yet? Or must I remind you of Armegedon when he promises to do it again. Nice guy, I wonder why I pity you instead of praising him? Republican style spin doesn’t work with free thinkers.
When I explained to you that I feel that it is not a mental weakness, from my point of view to not exclude the idea of an intelligent influence in creation, I was rewarded with this ignorant reprisal:
“I disagree. I’ve found it to be a place of intellectual laziness; a cowardly resort for those lacking the fortitude to confront the truth and all its consequences.”
What kind of lightning bolt from whichever of your imaginary angels or charubs would shock you into understanding the difference between leaping to an unsubstantiated and apparently ridiculous conclusion, and a finding that you are an idiot, but doubts about intelligent design are inconclusive. There, are you satified, I confronted the truth, you ARE an idiot.
Satisfied? Now answer the other questions about your murderous loving forgiving genocidal god, and you can move on to evolution. Coward.
NeoWolfe
Neo
Addendum, JCC, and you Phreedumb, Dave once opened a forum at my request where both of you could come and defend your ridiculous stories or gods, prophets, and heroes. Neither of you showed up. You are both pathetic cowards afraid of defending your pathetic beliefs. You have built, and yes, wasted your lives, devoted to ancient mythological ideas. You can’t admit it because you can’t face your mortality nor can you face the fact that you have imposed the same mindless idiocy upon your children. Step up. Or in JCC’s words, man up, and face me. Defend your fairy tales. And I’m not the only recovered christian here, face us all you cowering wannabe’s.
This time,Dave, I request that you give JCC, and Phreedunce a thread. Block them on every other thread until they answer all charges. Let the pathetic cowards defend their beliefs.
Then, Dave, let’s you and me debate evolution, two people with their eyes open.
NeoWolfe
Atheism should not be forced on anyone, however neither should religion, On of the ways to combat the religious lobby is to insist on the historical truth about religions. Christianity for example has been the most murderous throughout the ages. Culminating in their collusion with the Nazis during WW2. So dont let them rewite history.