Yes, this is why we’re hated. We’re so evil sometimes. All around the world, We atheists start trouble, spew hatred, and push bigotry. Terrible.
VIJAYAWADA: Delegates at the seventh World Atheist Conference in the city adopted a declaration affirming their stance on atheism and humanism as an alternative life stance (a way of life). “We recognise that critical thinking, scientific temper and the spirit of inquiry are essential for development of society. We uphold gender equality, we demand that legislations be based on common concerns rather than religious beliefs and we demand separation of religion from politics, the State, the law and education,” said the declaration. The collective statement reiterated the leaders’ stand on secular state, secular values, environmental issues and their commitment to the cause of promoting democracy and human development.
Again, Dave, my point is made for me. As a species we stand at a crossroads. Keeping religion out of government is such an important step, but, it’s not enough. We have to take a painful look at who we are, what we have done, and use common sense and logic to solve the issues that face us. Taking “god” out of the picture eliminates so many reasons for hating each other, but, it does not address racism, greed and the unscrupulous thirst for power.
Again, let me assure you that I am not trying to diminish the value of what you are doing, but addressing the big picture is a science apart. I wish you the best of luck on what you are doing. Wish us luck on what freethinkers are doing.
NeoWolfe
Dave – Do you suppose we are seeing such an upsurge in India of nonbelief due to the increasing number of highly educated people there? A high number of medical personnel in the U.S. is from India, and I am seeing an increase of scientists from India in scientific educational fields. By the way, I am an atheist, freethinker, and though some dispute it, an otherwise really great guy.
It only sounds evil if you believe in holy rolly ghosts and heavenly jelly toasts.
dw posted this:
“By the way, I am an atheist, freethinker, and though some dispute it, an otherwise really great guy.”
I’m an agnostic, a freethinker, and though I’m outnumbered here, and no one really knows me, I’m a nice guy, too.
I read the headline, but was left wondering if the location of the forum had anything to do with the people who voted on such a freethinker breakthrough. If the predominantly Hindu populace of India, and the minority Muslims, who have been at quiet civil war for decades, came together and arrived at such a revolutionary and insightful resolution, what a landmark that would be. But to hold a convention in India is not the same thing as to represent the mindset of India. More homework is required here. I’m on it, I’ll share what I find, please do me the same favor.
NeoWolfe
Sounds like some readers think this is the first ever world Atheist conference in India. They’ve had several actually, and there’s an “Atheist Centre” there still, I believe.
Madalyn O’Hair went to India once to represent American Atheists. I think we should send someone again. Next time, I guess.
Like the US of A, India has a huge reason to organize Atheists: Religion out the wazoo. But one thing about religion in India is very special in my mind. Competition for the Christians. They have to work hard for ever convert, unlike over here, where most of that work’s already done.
I’ve also felt that we should link up with Atheist groups in Canada and Mexico for a 3 nation conference, and beyond!
Joe Zamecki
Austin, Texas
dw, dave was on the level. Just google seventh world atheist conference. Seems the Hindus have a step up on us toward achieving social freethought. Go figure.
NeoWolfe
Joe Z.
I was impressed with what I learned today. But, the resolution in India is not about atheism, it was about freethought, whether they called it by name or not. But, the word humanism was used, the realization that our fate is in our own hands. On this blog, I have been trashed for accusing atheists of being humanists, as though it was a lower rung of a philosophical ladder. I don’t agree. I think it is a more socially tolerant version of the idea we are alone with our fate.
If we want to do labels, I think that atheist, agnostics, and humanists can all be freethinkers, and share constructive ideas about the issues humanity faces. At the same time, those who may be atheists, agnostic or humanist, does not necessarily make them freethinkers. I am not trying to be elitist, I am just saying that if you want to be a part of the solution to the human condition, you have to understand what it is, and rise above it, which presupposes that you have a clue what that means, or care to find out.
NeoWolfe
neowolfe – I don’t care so much about which label they use, as long as they openly criticize religion.
I think the real opposition is out there, not among us.
Joe Zamecki
Austin
Didn’t Frank Zindler go to India a couple of
years ago? I remember reading about it in the
AA magazine.
About labels, aren’t all the agnostic, freethinker ,
bright, etc labels attempts to not be called atheists to avoid legal and social ramifications?
However you split the hair, it’s still the same thing.
Neo –
There are close-minded individuals on both sides of the aisle that prefer to let others lead them by the nose don’t you think? Thinking and investigating for yourself is such a chore, but a necessary one.
dw said:
“There are close-minded individuals on both sides of the aisle that prefer to let others lead them by the nose don’t you think? Thinking and investigating for yourself is such a chore, but a necessary one.”
You have a witness in me. The problem is you cannot trust any source to not cherry pick the facts to place a spin on reality. What’s inevitably frustrating is that when being honest with oneself, even after making your best effort to find the truth, you are still just left with your own perception of the truth, and not concrete reality. The human condition is inescapable.
Sadder still, is that when you die all the knowledge you have accumulated, and all the wisdom you might have deduced, is gone. And I chuckle when I think about the fact that if you really put together the answer to the human condition, would anybody listen?
NeoWolfe
NeoCon
The answer? What’s the question?
Neo, I think this is very profound. This is the problem humanity has and cannot surmount. In the end, on any question, you must align yourself with those who are close to the reality you have deduced, or be forever alone. 100% agreement will never occur except in the cloak of religious dogma or outright ignorance. Any thinking creature, such as a human, is complex, and when allowed to think, will develop infinite points of view.
On the point of knowledge accumulation: I have always stated that a person lives an inadequate number of years and just when an individual begins to understand how to live in this world, they die.
WhatdidIjustsay shined his emerging intellect:
“The answer? What’s the question?
You just answered your own question. The difference between freethinkers and nematods.
NeoWolfe
teammarty asked:
“About labels, aren’t all the agnostic, freethinker ,
bright, etc labels attempts to not be called atheists to avoid legal and social ramifications?
I can only speak for myself as an agnostic, and I fear no legal ramifications. But, you are probably referring to organizations who adopt any of those labels. Religion can’t have it both ways, they want to speak their minds, and it’s protected under the constitution, but so can we, the opposition, and we are as equally protected. No fear, no qualms, no doubt.
NeoWolfe
From India’s Atheist Centre Web site at http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm :
“Atheist Centre has long been among the first to arrive on the scene of the floods and other tragedies that frequently cripple various parts of southern India, and Atheist Centre’s volunteers are never afraid
to ‘get their hands dirty’ when addressing the truly ugly aspects of natural disaster, where human need transcends religious and political loyalty. On many occasions, the
Atheist Centre has shown that human compassion can likewise transcend the same boundaries.”
Soon after the tsunami, I recommended Doctors Without Borders as an international secular NGO for donations. Later, Doctors Without Borders wrote back that they had had no tsunami relief efforts in place. The Atheist Centre, though, was on the scene.
For those who are interested, Cliff Walker’s Positive Atheism web site has a section devoted to the Atheist Centre at: http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocindia.htm
The labels we use to describe ourselves can be useful markers, but they also generate confusion when overburdened.
I call myself an “atheist” because it’s an apt description of my lack of theism. I believe in no gods. I am godless.
But saying I’m an atheist tells no one anything about my moral values, political opinions, sexual proclivities or anything else. “Atheist” is one label among many that I wear. What I call myself depends very much on the context in which the label is needed.
All atheism provides, in my view, is a starting point. It is not a world view, only a perspective upon which to build one.