Two-thirds of Americans think religion is losing its influence on U.S. life, a sharp jump from just three years ago when Americans were nearly evenly split on the question, according to a new Gallup Poll.Sixty-seven percent of Americans think religious influence is waning while just 27% say it is increasing. That perspective demonstrates a continuing downward trend, Gallup said.
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It is a very good news for the world that US does’t become a theocracy.
Of course, many of those who feel that think religion is losing its influence thinks that it’s a bad thing and they are complaining about it. Personally, people seem as religious today as always and I’m in my 50’s. however, most religious folk I know are more tolerant of certain things then whan I was younger (ie: divorce, abortion, gay issues etc.)
I think the most intolerent are not increasing in number, they just are really loud.
Sadly this isn’t good news. This is just more of the Christians espousing their persecution mentality (ie not having gov’t backing of their religion is on par with throwing them into lions’ dens).
This line sums it up pretty well from the article:
“Those who regularly attend worship services are more likely to say religion is losing its influence; three out of four weekly attenders (74 percent) said religious influence is falling, compared to 24% who thought its influence is on the rise.”
This is more proof of the uphill battle we face in bringing sanity to the system when most of the people in that system are insane… and like it that way.
I think this is excellent news. If 67 percent think that religion is losing influence, then isn’t it likely those who answered the poll in this way are less influenced by religion? Persecution syndrome, aside.
dw… I suppose I’m just being a worry wart on the issue. The current theocratic movement in the Islamic world was based on encroaching western influences and fueled by religious fanaticism that framed it as an assault on Islam. With half of the country recently polled as believing the Constitution was founded as a “christian nation” and believing the Constitution established it as such…
…I start getting that proverbial “bad feeling about this” when the fanatics feel they are losing their grip on power. As with any group, such a scenario encourages more desperate measures to retain/regain power… throw in some religious fanaticism and things get scary. As has been witnessed throughout history, such conditions have a tendency of driving moderates to extremism, or tacit support of the extremists.
The fundy rabble rousers in the US have huge megaphones, and sadly the US is stocked full of rabble… my endless concern is whether religiosity in the US will fade out with a whimper, or go off like a powder keg.
This story is good news if the opinions reflect reality… it’s unsettling if it’s a reflection of persecution mentality and not based on any real loss of power/influence.
Given the cyclical nature of American politics, I’m not swayed by the recent elections as proof of loss of religious power, especially as the winning candidate went out of his way to suck up to the fundies to ensure he was seen as “american enough” to be president and the losing candidate was written off by the fundies for not being a teetotaler for them.
The post election polling by Gallup put the GOP favorites for 2012… even with self-described moderates included… with Palin, Huckabee and Romney at the top of the list and strong support overall.
The recent trends may have more to do with where the fundies are shifting their weight… and this poll may be showing a strong potential for a resurgence to protect their way of life next time around.
I’d love to be proven wrong, but right now I feel surrounded by powder kegs and talk radio minions with pyromania.
glock21 –
I think your concerns are well-founded. I tend to try to view things optimistically, even when in the back of my mind my concerns are similar to yours… but you see, if their actions are predicated on a threat to their way of life, then they are misdirected. It is not their way of life we are concerned about, it’s ours. What is threatened is believers’ power to enforce their beliefs on the rest of us. This is what they are up in arms about, Christianity throughout it’s history has, often times by force, insisted that their way, is the only way.
Well, don’t get caucky Dave, these things tend to flucuate like the stock market does, perhaps with some lag time involved. I went to a church service with my parents for christmas and the pastor was trash talking the american way and the stock market, anything to push his religious agenda (as usual). Christians like to take advantage of things like 9/11 and recessions in order to get people when they are being emotional.
What for Phreedm’s response “This is a Xtian nation add nauseam” in Three, Two, One.
“Today’s young Americans are the least theistic and most socially tolerant generation in the nation’s history, even displaying a marked decline in anti-atheist bigotry.” (Free Inquiry magazine)
Maybe we’re finally catching up with all the other first-world secular democracies. Most of the older generation has internalized their delusions so deeply they’re beyond the eloquence of change. Our greatest hope lies with a younger generation savvy to the wisdom of modern science, evolution and education.
and a truly heart-felt Thank You to George Bush. What luck we have had to have a pandering theistic moron serving as the President of the United States.
We will forever regret the damage he has done but, regarding secular, humanitarian interests, his folly has been so transparent, the entire world (and even some republicans) have taken notice. His darkness has allowed the clear light of reason to shine more brightly.
Not everyone thinks religion is bad for a society…
http://tinyurl.com/8awby2
Wow, guys, sometimes when I’m in doubt, you completely restore my faith. Following a string of really intelligent, well thought out posts, perhaps I should just say, “I think you guys did a great job”, because I’m not sure if what I would say would add or delute. But, my foot needs its regular soak in my mouth and when I don’t humor it get athletes foot.
I have seen early cold war propaganda films published by the Russians that made fun of America because of the way we treated our black citizens. Now, a brilliant black harvard graduate is about to become our president.
I remember when gay bashing, even murder was swept under the rug, and now, even though gays have not achieved their fair shake, at least the subject is front and center in the public eye and given serious credibility.
I have seen the Reverend Phelps video, “Santa Claus will take you to hell.” His roadsigns depicting one guy driving up another guys hershey highway, with the words, “Bush is a fag pimp”.
I saw the zealots deliberately getting arrested to give Terry Schiavo a drink of water (which she couldn’t drink without her feeding tube). I saw the policical right force a federal court to review her case over which it had no jurisdiction.
I saw John McCain declare on video that he supported the Roe vs. Wade decision, I heard him call ultra right wing fundamentalists “the voice of intolerence”, which earned him the title of “maverik”, then I watched him turn on everything he had ever stood for. Despite his appointment of the “ultra” right wing, Sarah Palin, his base remembered, and flipped him the bird on election day.
My point, for what it’s worth, is that maybe it’s not about less religious, exactly, because some would point at me and include me in the category, against my will. I think it’s more about the rise of clarity and free thought. That the really blinded fundamentalist idiots are becoming more obvious, and are even losing faith in each other. That common sense is starting to make more sense to more and more people.
Martin Luther King, called them the ” children of light”.
NeoWolfe
A Challenge to NeoWolfe
Let’s see how long you can go without including the words “free thought”, “free thinker” or minor variants thereof in your posts. On your mark. Get set. Go.
*** OFF TOPIC ***
FINALLY!!! For months leading up to the election the question was asked…Change? What change exactly…now we know.
Such leadership…Such brilliance…
http://tinyurl.com/9sy97a
Wow…talk about priorities…
Nice to see the “Prsident Elect” leans on the excuse of “there’s only one president at a time”.
Then again…this is most likely another example of an opinion being “above his pay grade”…
If Obama beats bushs record of taking the most vacation days of any presidnet ever then you can complain.
I think Tuen has it right….
There are 2 reasons for religion withering away in the US…and that is because of the youth and the information age….I understand that the sciences have put a damper on the 2000 year old story thang…but the passing of a bigoted and sexist generation coupled with the thirst for truth from a young generation on the internet will certainly end these ridiculous eggerated and unverifiable claims….
Bush will go down as the worst president ever because of 3 blunders….the response to 911 and Katrina and the economy….
suck it monotheism and get the fuck out of my public view….its embarrassing
Let’s be honest, a lot of people do need religion to not be assholes.
If church keeps people from stealing my shit, then have at it.
mxracer652 –
Prison statistics on who resides therein indicate that religion does not affect criminal tendencies. Actually, atheists are among the smallest minorities within prison walls.
dw-
That says nothing of who isn’t a criminal b/c of religion.
Like it or not, sky daddy is the equivalent of surveillance cameras. There’s studies ‘n shit, I swear.
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists#Atheists_In_Prison
Hmm. Europeans seem to control themselves nicely with less religious fanaticism than the USA.
Africa needs God?
It’s not Christianity that changes peoples’ hearts. It’s compassion, mutual respect and good will. Atheists et al are just as capable at sharing these qualities with our fellow human beings. And that’s without all the delusional baggage.
Yes, the theist punishment and reward system may inspire some to jump on board, but do we really want to fool people into being good? For over 2000 years this path has ultimately proven disastrous. The most noble thing we can give to our brothers and sisters is the truth. It may not be as charming as fairy tales but it will best serve humanity in the long run.
What said,
“Let’s see how long you can go without including the words “free thought”, “free thinker” or minor variants thereof in your posts. On your mark. Get set. Go.”
Here’s a more interesting experiment, let’s see how long it takes you to have a free thought, On your mark, get set, Sit Fido!! Anyone got a calendar I can borrow?
NeoWolfe
Tuen said,
“Atheists et al are just as capable at sharing these qualities with our fellow human beings. And that’s without all the delusional baggage.”
Very well put, religion has no ownership of moral or common sense. Closer to the truth is it all goes out the window when their own agenda of power and money is in the balance.
NeoWolfe
NeoWolfe
Tell me Neo, what is a free thought? One unguided by constraints? Like reality.
An old folk tale says, When a snake dies it’s tail doesn’t stop twitching until the sun goes down.
I think Xian fundamentalism is dead. But it’s a very large corpse, and it’s randomly thrashing tail can still do a lot of damage while it’s “sun” takes it’s own good time “going down”.
Grit your teeth, hang on tight, the worst may be yet to come, but the end is in sight.
NotSoFast
I agree. I think the damage done to the US these past eight years was in part due to the thrashing of that dying beast.
NotSoFast
Nice metaphor!
NeoWolfe,
Dam straight and Arthur C. Clarke said a mouthful with:
The greatest tragedy in mankind’s entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
“What” finally asks something civil and constructive, if you ignore the sarcasm:
“Tell me Neo, what is a free thought? One unguided by constraints? Like reality.”
Even though you have made your thoughts or lack of them obvious, implying I’m not in contact with reality, I’m going to answer your question, even though it doesn’t deserve one.
I can only define “free thought” from my point of view, and while I know this is outside your box, another “free thinker” having grown up different from me, having a better education, or none at all, might see the universe in a different way than I do, we do see things in the same way. Religion is bullshit, clear thinking is the key, not only to rising out of any hole we might find ourselves in, but, as well, preventing ourselves from falling into the next one.
Science has more or less become your new god, and I understand the intelectual underpinnings, but which chemical formula will keep another Bush from being elected?
With all due respect to all of you, the question is not whether or not god exists, its whether or not your grandchildren will.
NeoWolfe
I do not see any apparent signs of religion fading, but I do hear more complaints that people fear it is so. That is dangerous thinking because the religious want to fight back against this perceived evil and it perpetrators, us.
NeoWolfe
Your last post promised a definition of “free thinker” but did not provide one. Huh.
What said this:
“Your last post promised a definition of “free thinker” but did not provide one.”
but he obviously didn’t read this:
“Religion is bullshit, clear thinking is the key, not only to rising out of any hole we might find ourselves in, but, as well, preventing ourselves from falling into the next one”
That was a quote from my last post. But, as usual I guess I have to dumb it down a little for YOU. Freethought is seeing the world without being incumbered by social quams, irrational bias, like racism, sexism, and even patriotism, to name just a few. It’s to attempt to rationally peel back the spin and see the facts. It’s digging out those facts, and then forming reasonable opinions, based thereupon. That’s freethought. Not forming an opinion, then searching for a reason to believe it. That’s religion.
Atheism is a theory. And granted, the history and teachings of organized religion give plenty of reason to lend an intuitive suspicion that “god”, as defined by any religion, does not exist. But, it does not prove that an intelligence was not involved in the origin of the universe. But atheism assumes it to be fact. Therefore, atheism is a religion. You are what you hate, no wonder you’re all so grumpy.
NeoWolfe
NeoWolfe
Thanks for providing your definition of “free thinker”. Too bad that most religious folk would consider it to apply to themselves.
Really what phenomenon does it seek to describe and predict?
Remind me again how you “prove” that something doesn’t exist.
So, what is your definition of the word “universe”? Apparently things can exist outside of it by your definition.
How long have you been visiting this website? And you still don’t know what Athiesm is.
What, even though you are a poor student, you are at least challenging what I said:
“Thanks for providing your definition of “free thinker”. Too bad that most religious folk would consider it to apply to themselves.”
They probably would, because they are subject to a lot of self inflicted delusions. But, again you missed the point. The difference is, digging out, and to the best of your ability, finding the pure facts (always subjective, inescapable human nature, truth and the eye of the beholder), then taking those facts and forming an opinion.
As opposed to choosing what you want to believe, then searching for reasons to believe in it.
Freethought and religion have nothing in common, while atheism and religion do.
But then What asked:
“Atheism is a theory.
Really what phenomenon does it seek to describe and predict?”
A theory does not need to predict a phenomenon. It is simply a proposal about about the nature of the universe. Some scientists may blow it off as having no valid basis, others may percieve promise and set up experiments to either prove or disprove.
You propose that the universe is an accident, as well as life. I find that notion counterintuitive, but do not claim it is wrong. Lot’s of things in life are counterintuitive. They treat hyperactivity with stimulants, and depression with depressants. Go figure.
Then What said”
“So, what is your definition of the word “universe”? Apparently things can exist outside of it by your definition.”
That’s crazy. Even if dimentions and alternate universes exist that we have yet to imagine, they are all “nature”. There is no supernatural. It’s all part of the universe. Let’s call the universe, “everything”, if it makes you more comfortable.
you asked me, What, so I answered:
“How long have you been visiting this website? And you still don’t know what Athiesm is.”
I was really tempted to rag you on your spelling of atheism, but I spell like a kindergartner, therefore, dangerous territory.
I knew what an atheist was before I came here, I know what an atheist is now. I have no war with them, I just think they’re a little presumptuous. But, that doesn’t make me right, that’s just how the universe looks through my eyes. But, how I see the universe changes a little every day, because I can’t stop searching. While the pickings are very lean here, bear with me while I search for the mother lode. I’ll come back for the free thinkers when I find it.
NeoWolfe
NeoWolfe
You have been certified.
NeoWolfe
Why hasn’t your head exploded yet?