Growing up, my father had a small car stereo business, and of course, Xmas was the busy season. We’d stay open late and work Sundays every day between Thanksgiving and Xmas.And then, every Xmas Eve, the same story: crowded in the morning, and then DEAD in the afternoon. I mean DEAD. NO customers, NO passers-by. Nothing. As I got older, I realized that Xmas Eve Afternoon was the BEST time to go shopping, because all the stores were open and all the shoppers were gone.Flash forward a decade or two. Yesterday, I went shopping at a large local mall. We waited until about 2pm to make sure all the Christians had done all their last-minute shopping and headed out to our empty-but-still-open mall.Here’s the punchline — the mall was PACKED. I’m talking driving around, looking for parking PACKED. And the mall itself– crowded to capacity, all with non-Christians. Atheists, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and everyone else was there — and this time, it was a LOT of people.Has the non-Christian population grown? Yup. They are more vocal and more obvious too. This is what the non-Christians do on Xmas — whatever they can. I”ll probably see the same crowd today at the movie theater or the Chinese restaurant.
I’m sure you will see that same crowd later today.
Sometimes, not too often, I go to the mall or Sprawl-Mart during the shopping madness. I park on the outer edge of the lot so I don’t get frustrated trying to find a spot close to the door and then I enjoy watching the human condition in the stores. Ever seen people rush to get the last of toy off the shelf before somebody else can?
Going out for Chinese makes so much sense to me, and I’ve never been Jewish, although if I were I’d be proud of that.
My lovely atheist husband attempted to go to Wal*Mart yesterday for a non-holiday related household item and said the parking lot was completely full. This was about 2PM.
Happy fictional birthday of an imaginary deity born of an allegedly virgin mommie to all, and to all a good night.
Dave,
What do you mean they were all non-Christians? Just because they were shopping late in the day on Christmas eve?
I think that’s just more of the fact that religion and capitalism have blended into one all-out holiday called Christmas. That’s just one reason why I think it’s silly to try to divide them into one thing that’s religious and another thing that’s not religious. The two angles are displayed and enjoyed by both religious and semi-religious people. But the vast majority of devout Christians seem to be doing both very reliably every year.
Greed and Christianity have always gone together. Even Jesus was greedy, in wanting so much glory for himself, while he could get it. He got a lot of it too.
My pastor used to say Jesus rode into town on a donkey, which was a great priviledge in that town, so he looked great. Just like Christians do now, at the mall.
At least that’s how it seems to me. Plus now corporations admit to being reliant on the Christmas shopping season. It’s really quite sad. lol
Joe Zamecki
Austin
According to the Pew Forums 2008 US Religious Landscape Survey 16.1% of Americans self identify as unaffiliated with any religion. This places us third after protestant and catholic xians as the largest religious affiliation group. The nonreligious are just now finding our voice and the next few years will see the nonbelievers become a force to be reckoned with.
http://religions.pewforum.org/affiliations
Joe Z made this point about Jesus’ thirst for fame:
“My pastor used to say Jesus rode into town on a donkey, which was a great priviledge in that town, so he looked great. Just like Christians do now, at the mall.”
One of the gospels relates, that just before he was executed, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on his ass, I mean mule. His followers laid palm branches along his path. This likely never happened, it was an attempt to claim fulfillment of a prophecy of Isaiah about the coming of the Messiah.
But, we can still draw modern day parallels if we want to stretch them far enough. In modern mall parking lots, the asses are not being ridden, they are doing the driving. Santa Claus finally got his Christmas wish, and the average American is as fat as he is. And that rattling bubbly sound you here in the food court of the mall, it used to be some naive innocent teenager finishing his Pepsi, but now its the sound of the greedy bastards sucking the last life out of the middle class. And now stand back and watch and see the truth, Reagan was full of shit, prosperity does not trickle down, pain trickles up. Hang on to your seat folks, this is going to be a rough ride.
NeoWolfe
Wow Dave…is this thread ever a stretch.
The proof is in some of the answers…
Dave…when you were younger, only one parent had to work. Now, thanks to mostly taxes and the belief that fulfillment of life can only occur in the work place, both parents work…
And besides…what’s wrong with believers shopping later on Christmas Eve?
You seem to argue from both sides of the fence. In a thread like this you want all to believe that Christians ruled the shopping season years ago. That non-believers were far and few between. Very low in numbers. Christmas Eve as Christmas was considered a holy day. Sure sounds like a nation running as if it were based upon Christianity.
Now, you want to claim that the secular and non-christian part of our society have grown to the point (as Alex trys to prove) that malls are overwhelmed with them, and that they are shopping on what use to be considered the beginning of the holy season of Christmas.
Either we are a religious nation or we are not. These types of threads tend to weaken the concept of the “myth”…
Alex…
Not true. Your suvey states 1.6% are atheists. 2.4% agnostic. 12.1% nothing in particular. Nothing in particular does not necessarily mean non-beleiver…
http://religions.pewforum.org/affiliations
Neo…
Comment from: neowolfe [Member]
Ah…no. Shallow studies revealing themselves again I see….
Try Zechariah 9:9
But hey…Isaiah…Zechariah. What does it matter if one gets the facts straight…
neowolf – lol! You are awesome!
Joe Zamecki
Austin, Texas
Phreak-
I’m going to help you where you should have helped yourself.
Alex said:
You said:
Where, oh where, did Alex say that 16% were atheists? It only said unaffiliated with any religion.
His quoted numbers are dead on, whether you like it or not. A little reading comprehension is needed, me thinks.
oh phreedum, thank you. When you uttered the word myth in your last post, I almost passed a sprig of holly.
Although a majority of Americans belong to one or the other of the many Christianities practiced in this country, there’s no question the segment of the population that can be called non-Christian has grown. Whether or not the increase translates into more shoppers in the stores and malls in the afternoon on Christmas Eve is an arguable proposition.
Yup. I work part time at a cinema here in Salt Lake City (the Mormon capital of the world). 12 screens and every film was sold out until the 9pm showings. AND we had a blizzard… but going to a movie seems to be the new tradition.
I never said that 16.1% of Americans were atheists, I just stated the fact that 16.1% are unaffiliated with any religion. This number would include atheists, agnostics, the religiously indifferent, and those who have abandoned their religion for whatever reason but still have a supernatural worldview. I myself am close friends with several people who believe in a god but despise organized faith and are as concerned with the entanglement of church and state as atheists are.
phreedumb made this stinging revelation about me:
“Ah…no. Shallow studies revealing themselves again I see….
Try Zechariah 9:9
But hey…Isaiah…Zechariah. What does it matter if one gets the facts straight…”
I guess my first question would be, “who the fuck cares” which old testament prophets said it. The point was, as you always deliberately miss, and never confront, is the story of Jesus riding into Jerusalem on his ass, never happened, and was added by the writer to support the claim among the followers that he was the foretold Messiah. And as I remember, there was only one of the four gospel writers who claimed it happened. We’ll leave out the other fifty who were deleted by King James.
Bottom line, I don’t study the Bible any more, I just know what it says, and if your god created everything he also created evil. How does it feel to be the puppet of evil?
NeoWolfe
I guess I never paid attention to whether the crowds were thinner on X-mas eve. My father always did his shopping on that day and I carried on the tradition until the advent of internet shopping. What surprised me was the lack of shoppers at the mall on Friday December 26. My ABS light and check engine lights had been going on for a week so I dropped my car off at the deal and the dealer dropped me off at the mall. Practically everything was 50%-75% off. I bought so much stuff I couldn’t carry it.
As for the non-Christian population growing, it certainly has in my town. We have a large growing Muslim population in the area. We also have a growing population from Asia and India bringing Hindus and Buddhists. I have not noticed the Jewish population around here rising, it may be shrinking. It is harder to gage the non-religious population because we don’t have houses of worship to count up. I have noticed more people speaking up in the local papers though, so maybe that is a sign.
BJ…let me help YOU out…
Hmmm…let’s see. Atheist blog. Places “us” third…
Nice try. Your error is taking a sentence out of context and runnig with it. Try reading the entire paragraph…
Alex claiming “us” either means “us atheist’s” or “us gay’s”. Since this is an atheist blog, I’ll let you decide…he did however group “us” with religious groups…
Comment from: neowolfe
How do you know? Let’s see the depth of your studies. Show irrefutable evidence that it “never happened”…
Quilified experts only…not “self-proclaimed” Egyptologists as you’ve used in the past…
Now who will not deal with direct question…???
Quilified=Qualified
I agree with Joe Zamecki. I think the malls are more crowded because more people view xmas as a gift-giving holiday, more so than a religious one. Even the religious do a lot of last-minute shopping.
My bottom-line opinion about religious belief in America is that most people consider themselves believers, but have very LITTLE knowledge about their own supposed beliefs. The figure I read a few years ago was that only 1/3 of the population attend religious services on a regular basis.
People just want to fit in and say that they have supernatural beliefs, but they don’t really want to be bothered with going to services, or learning about their own religion, or doing anything their religion tells them to do (like give to the poor, etc.)
phreedumb throws down the gauntlet:
“How do you know? Let’s see the depth of your studies. Show irrefutable evidence that it “never happened”…
Quilified experts only…not “self-proclaimed” Egyptologists as you’ve used in the past.”
Well, proving something never happened is probably the most difficult type of case to confront. So, let’s do what attorneys do and crossexamine the witnesses.
Will the congregation please open their bibles to the four gospels. Now, read the narrative regarding the morning after the execution of jesus at his tomb. You will notice that each account differs as to who was there, how many angels, what was said, etc. Divinely inspired infallible text? More like a crock of shit from wannabe clergyman with an agenda of their own.
Your honor, in light of the perjury of the witnesses, I make a motion to remand the idiot (phreedumb) to a mental ward to await lobotomy.
So ordered!!
NeoWolfe
correction, should read, “three days after the execution of Jesus
silly me, I forgot about the “sign of Jonah”
Phreedumb, we’re waiting.