I wrote that new poll because I was reminded of a discussion I’ve heard/overheard many times: attending a religious event being thrown by friends or relatives.I’m not only talking about “services” (weddings, confirmations, etc.), but also Christmas parties – where they really get into the religion. Do you go?I do. I figure it’s OK to go to someone else’s house from time to time. I won’t participate in any prayer or hide my atheism (of course), but I would have missed many important moments with my friends and family if I had skipped out on all those Bar Mitzvas, weddings, and yes, funerals. Some atheists refuse to go. They say that going, in and of itself, implies acceptance or inclusion. In fact, when I tell them I disagree, they look at me with a sense of disappointment or betrayal. But that’s bunk. Friends and family are important, and as long as you are not breaking any of your own personal rules or closeting yourself, I say go and try to have a good time. After all, sometimes, people come to your house too.
DW…here’s a hint. It’s not in the bible…
You’d be surprised what the rational mind can come up with when it ignores reality and lives in fantasy. It can live with and rationalize away all manner of contradictions in order to support a fantasy version of reality. It is how the Egyptians built the gigantic ceremonial pyramids based on faith in non-existant gods.
Just for specification here phreedm, yes, my brother and sister-in-law both have their faith in gods. They both have different beliefs though (Evolutionary Creationism vs Young Earth Creation), in fact all religious people have different beliefs whenever it comes down to the details. That is not very scientific, there is no evidence to support those views, merely about 6 billion different religious hypothesis and they are all falsified by virtue of contradictions with each other. There can only be one truth, phreedm, and it can’t be arrived by mere speculation but by virtue of rigorous testing of the specific details.
Phreedm,
You never, ever learn.
You asked if it’s that atheist’s perception of reality that’s wrong. You seriously asked that question. You even asked it and stated beforehand that you weren’t trying to be sarcastic.
Yet, there is no evidence of your god.
So for you to ask a silly question like that to an atheist makes you look completely ridiculous. What kind of response are you looking for? Do you *REALLY* expect an atheist to say: “Hrm… yea, I guess I could be wrong… you’re right, I shouldn’t call you wrong, just because you have no evidence. I’m going to respect your beliefs, even though they do not have any evidence whatsoever. You win.”
You’re a complete idiot.
phreedom –
2 Corinthians 6:14-17 (NIV):
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.â€Â
“Therefore come out from them
and be separate, says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.â€Â
Also, 1 Cor. 15:33 (NIV) says, “Do not be misled: ‘Bad company corrupts good character.’â€Â
Yet Luke 15 1-2 says: Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
So, at one point the Bible says not to associate with sinners yet the example Jesus gives is one of associating to save.
phreedm – no, not as a commandment. But it is said that you are not to mix with others of other believes. Please don’t respond to my comments, unless you have something constructive to say. thanks.
Phreedm – Whoops. I didn’t know you were a believer, if I had known that I wouldn’t have responded to you at all. I have made myself a rule not to respond to those who are “under the influence.”
Slightlysouthofsane – Hey, thanks for that. You shot him down for me.
tony miller made this quote”
“Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?”
And there are so many other quotes like, “bad associations spoil useful habits”. This is exactly the point that I made on another thread about how religions come to own the lives of their followers. They seperate you from your friends outside your religion, pressure you to marry inside the church, and suddenly your entire life is the property of you friendly neighborhood Jim Jones. And now you stay in the church and do as you are told, or lose everything.
NeoWolfe
If we visit a home and find the occupants engaging in ritual religious lunacy we, as quietly as they have allowed for, leave. Sometimes we leave for another room and sometimes we just leave the home altogether. It all depends upon the situation.
When others come to our home and express dissatisfaction with the absence of ritual religious lunacy we take them aside and inform them of the house-rules. There have been times when certain individuals, possessed by an obsessive compulsive religiosity, have not been able to abide by the house-rules. They are not invited back.
From the town idiot:
Our phreedm is masochistic.
Hey…Tony,
Nice try…but you must stick with the original comment before you attempt to answer…
DW (who has bailed on backing up his claim. A true sign weakness)..made the following comment…
You’re quoting Corinthians, while refreshing that someone on this board actually knows something about the bible, is discussing an entirely different idea. It doesn’t tell us to “avoid others”, it tells us not to be “yoked” together. Be it marriage or business. I’m sure you’d agree with that concept…
And you’re final comment…
This is in just as much error as DW’s original comment. It never says “do not associate”…it says do not be “yoked together”…huge difference.
Can you imgine the outcry had I posted a few verses from the bible…?
you’re=your
phreedm, where’s my response you piece of shit?
mushinronjya asked phreedumb this:
“phreedm, where’s my response you piece of shit?”
Temper tantrums are MY trademark. Stop working my side of the street!! (Smile) Get used to it, these guys don’t answer relevent questions, they just vibrate around taking things out of context and deliberately missing the point. They ARE, in personality, exactly what they represent, self blinded, self deluded, and they have chosen their mental crutch because they needed one. As part of their pathology, they come here, not to change our minds, but to hang on to the thread of their own fragile eroding belief system. Sanity is always looming on the horizon for them, and it threatens to destroy their delusion. They have no choice but to fight, because admitting defeat will force them to come to grips with the fact that they have wasted their lives supporting something that continues to drag humanity toward extinction. Weak minds don’t cope well with that sort of realization. They sit in the dark, by choice, and there they will stay.
NeoWolfe
Through confidence and empathy, stand firm on your beliefs. Hop on board the human merry-go-round and use the opportunity to show the unique blend of reason and compassion most privy to the free thinker.
A peaceful presence offers the greatest collateral for what you do and say.
Be neither a recluse or spectator. Be progressive. Participate in life and make a difference.
nice post, Tuen.
NeoWolfe
wood catholic statues
As catholic social services new york related topics continue to increase in popularity, there will be many more locations to learn more about this weighty theme.
This post is dedicated to Phreedumb and his fellow nematods. A freethinker string of pearls thrown into the pig sty:
Comment from: dw
Just as Christians avoid all others, not only as a commandment of their religion
DW…I missed the commandment. Would you mind showing it to me…?
Phreedolt, you know exactly what he’s talking about, “do not become unevenly yolked with the unbeliever,” and “bad association spoils useful habits”, you’re a squirming little snake, avoiding the point deliberately. Churches separate you from your unbelieving friends and aquaintences, pressure you to marry in the church, now your family is hostage and the church owns your balls and your mind. Sucks to be you.
But this just phreeks me out:
“”"Joe…great comment.
I think there should be a section on the AA website dedicated to discussing the act of escaping religion. Many of us Atheists are Atheists because of religion, because we had to be religious against our will. We got out of that, and life is great now, and I’d like to put it out there that not only is it great to be free, but that particular freedom is still just a dream for millions of people.
Exactly how is your freedom different from others…?”"”
How naive is that? Let me explain the difference so that even a preschooler could understand. Freethinkers look at facts and then draw conclusions from them. Religious zealots draw conclusions, then search for facts they can spin to validate their delusions.
Freethinkers watch the news and read books to fill in the holes in their view of the world, Religious zealots read fairytales and then search for reasons to believe in them.
Freethinkers weigh what is known and proven and freely decide what they believe, Religious zealots sit in pews and let other people tell them how to interpret fairy tales. Is the difference starting to become clear to you, phreedork? Of course it isn’t, because Satan has blinded the eyes of the believer. Before you balk on that quote, remember who created Satan. If you want to believe in fairy tales, why would you assume that you have not been duped into worshipping the wrong side? Look at the record of organized religion, the crusades, Spanish inquisitions,
Salem witch trials, what would lead to believe you are not worshipping the Devil?
You are what you do. And so far, your god has been “Jehovah (Yahweh) of Armies”, paraphrased, Jehovah the marauding genocidal sociopath, do you pray to someone who loves you and your family, or do you cower before someone you fear will wipe away the insulation you try to protect between you and and your inevitable mortality.
On a new strain, jcc, accused Dave of exposing his doubt about his eventuality with fear of death. I didn’t answer then, so I will now, our freedom is that we do not hide behind fairytales because we cannot stomach the reality of our own mortality. You do. NOW, do you see the difference?
NeoWolfe
To Phreedm:
You probably already know of these quotes from the King James Version, you can find them at
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/index.htm:
2 John, 1:9
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. “Whosoever … abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.”
2 John, 1:10:
“If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.”
So its not just atheists that are to be rejected but anybody that doesn’t have both a belief in god and a belief in Jesus.
- It’s not a secret that most churches and christians practice a form of “disfellowship” that calls on practioners to disassociate with anyone not of their faith.
I think it disingenuous of you to pretend that there is no such biblical directive so that you can try and make some obscure point.
As for the original topic…
I firmly try and avoid parties of those I know to be religious, but will attend ANY family function even when I know how much they’ll be pushing their religion on me. The only time I balk at family parties is if they try to push their religion on my children. But, that seldom happens anymore, they were too embarassed by my last outburst…
Fernando