A 49-year-old Florida woman says her former church is threatening to reveal her sins to its congregation after learning that she is in a “sexually immoral relationship.”Rebecca Hancock told FOXNews.com that Grace Community Church, a non-denominational church in Jacksonville, Fla., was against her relationship with boyfriend Frank Young because the two were sexually active but not married.When she wasnÂ’t willing to obey the church’s orders to leave him, she decided to leave the church instead, allowing her two children to remain active members.Now, she says, church elders have given her the worst ultimatum yet: In a Dec. 8 letter, they told her she either has to meet with them and end her “immoral” relationship or she will face public humiliation.“Bottom line, on January they 4th they are going to the church publicly with my sins, and my children will be sitting in church at the time,” Hancock told FOXNews.com.Click (the link) to see a copy of the letter (pdf).A church leader wouldn’t commit to an interview when contacted Thursday by FOXNews.com. The Rev. T. Scott Christmas, pastor of the church, told the Florida Times-Union that the “process of loving accountability” is made very clear to members, and the church is doing “nothing more than following the practices of what biblical churches have done through history.”
I wonder if “loving accountability” translates to the immoral behaviors by the preacher. After all, he is supposedly there to protect the parishioners, not persecute them. Also, if I remember correctly, the penalty for adultery (according to “what the Bible teaches”) is death by stoning.A personal note to Ms. Hancock: Church leaders lie for a living. They make stuff up as they go along, in order to extend their own power. They are dishonest, immoral, and unworthy of respect. They will hurt you if they see fit, and justify their actions by pointing to the Bible/Koran/Torah/whatever. My opinion: Ms Hancock should be a lesson to all believers — religion only benefits those who profit from it, at the expense of those who believe it.I wonder what kind of car Rev Christmas drives.
Why dont they just paint a large scarlet “A” on her and be done with it?
Well, exactly. Perhaps she’ll be fitted with a scarlet W for whore, or T for tramp, or F for fornicator.
Or all three, maybe: WTF.
With love in every stitch, of course.
I have no doubt there are church members who would have her wear a scarlet A if they had a way to inforce it; then stone her.
She left her children in the church? Hard to comphrehend the thought process. Of course, perhaps I give her too much credit.
Maybe we should offer her a subscription to AA for year. Seems like she’s in a spot to finish opening her eyes to the church’s lies.
Is a church above the law? Isn’t it possible for this woman to sue the church for defamation, even if everything they said might be true? I know there is no guarantee of privacy in the Constitution that is explicitly stated, but the church is certainly infringing upon her right to pursue “happiness” so to speak. On the other hand, if more churchs took this course perhaps there would be fewer church goers and therefore less ignorance in the world.
Dave, keep up the good work. Very interesting posts.
She and her boyfriend should attend church that day, sit front row and center, and when they “Out” them, stand up , take a bow, say “we decided we don’t need this kind of betrayal in our lives”, and walk the hell out of there. Hopefully her children will have the decency to join her as she goes, and wouldn’t it be wonderful if all the other people in the church who enjoy sex (i.e, all of them) walked out with them?
Such churches usually ARE above the law in cases like these.
“Most of the time courts refuse to hear these types of cases because churches are protected by the constitutional right to free religious exercise. Some courts though do allow for the cases to be brought in and have at times sided with the ’sinners’.”
From: Shunning An Old Practice Returning To Some Protestant Evangelical Churches, http://tinyurl.com/4deda9
Church and State
Greed and Hate
Two Baboons
In One Supreme Gorilla-Person
–Aldous Huxley
“Ape and Essence”
It’s unlikely a lawsuit would be successful. More’s the pity.
However, if she wishes to pursue one, Ms. Hancock should officially leave her church. Cancel her membership. Sign a notarized document disassociating herself from the congregation. Once she has done that the church cannot defend its actions by claiming to simply be admonishing a member to abide by the rules of the fellowship.
Making a public demonstration might give her some satisfaction, but I doubt it would have much impact on the members. The self-righteous are seldom diverted by such criticism.
I wonder why her children continue to attend?
Probably for the same reason that most people attend religious services: a lifetime of fear based conditioning.
You know, this is not entirely uncommon. I was raised as a Presbyterian. And, at 14 when my mother found out I’d become sexually active, she had the Pastor come over to the house to talk to me. Then I had to go to the church and talk to the deacons (I think that’s what they were called). They tried to humiliate me. No threats were made, other than god wouldn’t approve. So, this is not uncommon. Wrong, but common.
This is a renewal of the old practice of shunning that is most often associated with the Amish or Puritans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning
sounds more like a news item from Saudi Arabia
from Free Inquiry magazine:
-Though polls show that the Christian-conservative third of the population sharply disapproves of premarital sex, surveys reveal that over 8 in 10 engage in it (or did so prior to matrimony)-
Who wants to cast the first stone?
So why isnt there a major movement among xians to outlaw divorce in order to protect the sanctity of marriage rather than focusing on us gays who want the same right that straights have?
OT
Have you all seen the new tv show “Secret Millionaire”? its a “reality” show where wealthy people pretend to be poor and befriend people who are doing good deeds in their community or are having a hard time making ends meet and then they surprise them in the end with large sums of money to help out. Ive been watching it on Hulu and crying my eyes out. You should check it out. A show like this renews my faith in humanity.
We can expect more and more aberrations from the bibliolators as they grow more and more marginalized. The world keeps getting more civilized, and they keep crawling deeper into their one & only security blanket, the Bible.
This and the Knights of Columbus story about the forbidden love are both fascinating to me.
On the one hand I’d like to help any religious people who are having trouble getting along with their fellow Christians because of an irrelevant dispute that got out of hand.
On the other hand, it’s hard to be sympathetic to these grown adults after they knowingly decided to involve themselves in a church. They’re at an age where they’re set in their ways, so there’s probably no chance that they’ll leave religion. They’re victims, but they brought it on themselves.
But then I am reminded that these types of problems in American churches are the exception to the rule. Churches do need their congregants to build long-lasting families that are stable. Churches rely on that. So this is mostly a fluke.
Of course some churches consist primarily of extremely unusual family situations that are dangerous to them. So these folks are somewhat fortunate.
Also it’s a “non-denominational” church…with a name. lol Non-Denominational is a denomination, y’know. I love to inform Christians of that blatant irony. Any group of Christians that large, on their own, is a denomination, no matter how much they hate that. They also hate the label “religion.” lol
Joe Zamecki
Austin
This is really nothing new. Fundamentalist religions have been employing this tactic for generations, for some, and hundreds of years for others.
This is how their seize ownership of their members, by first discouraging forming liasons or friendships outside the church. They encourage marrying “in the faith” thereby engulfing entire family units. Then, you are left in a position of either conforming to the church’s ideas, or be “shunned”, therefore losing, not only your “god crutch”, but all your friends and family in one fell swoop.
So, when people like phreedumb and jcc make irritating irrational statements, consider with a little bit of sympathy that they are undoubtedly is such a position themselves, and are desperately trying to convince themselves that they still own their own mind, against all evidence, and are acting on faith and free will. As the Apostle Paul said, “If there is no resurrection, we (Christians) are the most to be pitied.” Couldn’t have said it better myself.
NeoWolfe
I think that fuckwad reverand is just jealous because she’s at home banging the hell out of her boyfriend and having wild sex, while he’s at home with Rosie and her five friends.
This story is now the 1,363,965th reason why I think religion is ridiculous and worthless.
I may have lost count, though.
I think “Church leaders lie for a living. They make stuff up as they go along” is best demonstrated by this fellas blog about his time spent with a bunch of Christians (see url above)
What I don’t understand is that in the article it mentions that the woman thought the conversations with her church mentor were confidential. By law, aren’t they? Isn’t this akin to when a person who commits a crime makes confession and the priest is not allowed to divulge the contents of that confession?
muchsarcasm
I’m not sure there’s any law to that effect. Catholic priests are restrained by the Church rules; secular professionals (doctors, lawyers, psychologists) are prohibited by the ethical codes of their professions, and the law does not require them to testify in court under most circumstances.
Someone in that woman’s position certainly ought to talk to a lawyer and find out just what remedies are open to them.
nathy pathy,
Does that represent your deepest probe into fundamentalist religion? Just a suggestion, how about a little historical tour of Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. If you like your news a little more recent, check out Rev. Phelps and his new musical, “Santa Claus will take you to hell.”
NeoWolfe
Zamechi said:
“On the other hand, it’s hard to be sympathetic to these grown adults after they knowingly decided to involve themselves in a church. They’re at an age where they’re set in their ways, so there’s probably no chance that they’ll leave religion. They’re victims, but they brought it on themselves. “
That was a kinda disjointed line of reason, but I guess I see where you are coming from. My father became a fundamentalist so he could fuck my mom, and I’ve seen pictures, she was HOT!! But, he became a fundamentalist too, in order to continue fucking her, and as a child that didn’t work out well for me. He convinced himself he believed that shit and then forced it on all his children.
We are almost all victims of the childhood brainwash. Only twelve percent of Americans are atheists. Is there an excuse for us, whether we choose the comfort of the brainwash, or the pain and challenge of separation? I say it’s a question answered one case at a time, and generalities are inappropriate.
But by saying that, I just stated another generality. That was inappropriate, and I should be severely punished. Girls, put on your leather and grab your whips. Don’t peek while I’m undressing.
NeoWolfe
They say: be fruitful and multiply? Yeah, but only by our terms.
We will tell you how, why, who and when you can fuck somebody…..otherwise, sex is so dirty and disgusting, you shall surely suffer the wrath of God…
The wrath of God? No. The wrath of his delusional, paranoid, dysfunctional, hypocritical and hateful latter day saints.
I feel the saying, “There are none so blind as those who refuse to see” is at play here. I can understand the brainwash of religion, but can’t she find another church? There’s one on every block around here. I’ll bet she could even find one closer to her home and be green while she wastes her time praying. And why would anyone subject her children to such ridicule? ‘Tis a sin I say.
cry4turtles understandably made this statement:
“I’ll bet she could even find one closer to her home and be green while she wastes her time praying. And why would anyone subject her children to such ridicule? ‘Tis a sin I say.”
You might understand if you read my earlier post regarding the strategy of religion to , not only possess members, but their entire family units. To leave a church, you sacrifice your god, your friends, and most importantly your family. It is not a sin, it is an oversimplication of a human disaster that anyone faces when they reject their religion.
NeoWolfe
If the church does publicly reprise her, especially with the children present, you all know it will be a blow to the faith of all present. I think it’s great when the church disciplines because it always drives away more than it compells. What a victory for us, and let’s hope those (grown) children are there.
father ralph,
You hypothesized:
“If the church does publicly reprise her, especially with the children present, you all know it will be a blow to the faith of all present”
That would be true about someone who is seriously considering separation anyway. But, to the rest of the congregation, those who have built their lives around their faith, it is a clear reminder that they are all one false step away from losing everything they hold valuable in their lives. They wouldn’t use this tool if it didn’t work very well.
NeoWolfe