It worked (this time)! Look around and check it out. You may need to reset your password. If there are problems let me know!
It worked (this time)! Look around and check it out. You may need to reset your password. If there are problems let me know!
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Jcc,
Misguided humility? Humility is no longer a virtue? It is just as easy to argue that religious belief devalues human life by inventing an afterlife. It diminishes the importance of this life by effectively turning the reality of our existence in this world into some self-serving quest for divine reward. Those that do the most “good” in the name of self-interest can look forward to spending eternity in some utopian retirement home in the sky. Why value human life when it is eternal?
That’s quite the exercise in applying a slippery slope argument. Unfortunately for your argument, the Christian mindset is as guilty of only valuing life when it’s convenient as any other mindset. I’d be happy to give examples if you like?
Aside from the reality that “moral norms” vary from individual to individual (even among you Christians), this still doesn’t excuse the murder of those who haven’t yet taken part in a society. Infants for example (and your God must have killed them by the hundreds of thousands in the global flood). You still haven’t explained why you give your God a free pass when he murdered babies in the flood. By your own explanation, corporate justice wouldn’t apply to them.
You’re right. Why didn’t I see it before? Those with unique talents have no moral obligation to interact with others — who may not share said talents — in a fair manner. And you call yourself a Christian? That sounds almost like you’re trying to justify treating others as unfairly as you want, taking advantage of whatever talents they may lack. Is that what you’re saying? Is not taking advantage of the less fortunate just a matter of being nice, as you put it? I don’t think so. It’s your moral obligation to do so and EVERY Christian I know would agree with me — not you. As an atheist, I can at least take some comfort in believing that most Christians do not share your self-serving perversion of moral obligation when it comes to fairness.
Are you speaking for your God again?
This of course is contradictory to the concept that God has a “plan” for us all — or that he is omniscient. Either way, he is responsible for creating everything which also means wickedness.
Interesting. America was founded on slavery. On genocide. On allowing the individual to worship any God they choose to (a direct violation of the first commandment). So then you agree that these are all Christian values? You believe America morally devolved in abolishing slavery? We morally devolved in granting/protecting women’s rights?
Man, you’re really becoming just another example of how the religious have absolutely nothing to offer society.
Boy, I’m glad I was finally able to log in again after that first brief interlude I had with the new blog. I was missing all this jcc kerfuffel. Good job, DVanW.
DVanWechel:
Who said that? Sincere humility is a virtue, but it’s what motivates it that, in the end, will matter.
An erroneous conclusion based on a faulty or poorly understood premise – as evidenced by your next sentence:
Once again, an eternal, abundant life is the result of grace, not works.
Because Christianity is not universalism. Motives matter, and they directly affect the location in which one spends eternity.
By all means, please do.
Mores vary, morals don’t.
My apologies for failing to adequately convey my point. Let me try again. The blood of the babies killed in the flood was on their parent’s hands, not God’s. Throughout time, innocent children have suffered the consequences of their parent’s bad behavior and/or decisions. As individuals, we must all realize that everything we do will in some way either directly or indirectly affect others – especially the ones we care the most about.
That’s neither what I said nor what I meant.
Yes, I do.
No. That’s not even close to what I was saying.
You’re clearly confusing fairness with ethics.
Again, it seems I’ve failed to adequately explain my position. If I may try again… A Christian is called to love others which intrinsically means to treat them first and foremost ethically, not necessarily fairly. A Christian businessman is to treat his customers with honesty and integrity. The same principle applies to non-business associations. We are to treat others with dignity, respect and kindness. But this is not the same as treating them with fairness. No business could ever remain solvent if its proprietor treated all his customers and suppliers fairly – there could be no volume discounts; no discounts for repeat buyers; no preferred suppliers, etc. The same goes for relationships. As a father, I cannot always treat my children with what you consider to be fairness – what I give to my oldest I cannot always give to my youngest because it sometimes isn’t age appropriate despite the fierce protestations from the youngest.
Now, fairness, with regard to how individuals are seen by the law is a completely different matter. I expect fair (that is, equal) treatment in the eyes of the law. If I’m convicted of armed robbery, then I deserve, and should expect, the same punishment as anyone else guilty of the same crime under the same circumstances – because that is fair. I am morally obligated to behave ethically, but aside from matters concerning the law, I am under no such obligation for fairness.
I’m speaking for the objective reality that you and I both exist in.
No, it doesn’t. As a parent, I have a plan for providing my children with a college education; whether or not they choose to accept that plan is up to them, but like God’s plans for each of us, they can only come to fruition when we recognize them and work together toward them.
Nope. If God is good, then He cannot be the author of evil. Evil is of our doing, our free will, NOT his.
Ok, that explains why you have such difficulty understanding such rudimentary concepts.
And if you were serious about the slavery/genocide comment, then that indicates just how detached from reality your thinking has become.
And if jcc had been born in a Muslim country to Muslim parents, it is highly likely that he would be arguing fervently for Allah and His Prophet (PBUH). Likewise if he had been born to a Jainist or a Sikh or in any other religious setting.
It absolutely fascinates me to see a person with obvious intellect wielding it in defence of a position they hold because of an emotional attachment they seem unable to perceive.
For 13 billion years and more you did not exist. Nothing. Just some atoms that would briefly come together. Even now the individual atoms you were born with have mostly been replaced. All too soon you will end and soon there will be nothing to show that as an individual, you ever existed.
So, little mayfly, enjoy what you have and help others to do the same. Science is the way to learn of the wonders. Don’t waste time with warm and fuzzy lies.
DD Dropout:
Oh definitely! Just as you are unquestionably the product of a long, uninterrupted, genetically controlled lineage of committed atheists, my thoughts, like yours, are strictly dictated by my DNA. We simply had no choice in what we believe in, do we?
An “obvious intellect,” that’s unable to overcome an “emotional attachment?” That’s a very interesting choice of words, especially coming from someone who was either unwilling or unable to answer the simple question of who or what he can effectively pray to…
And yet my consciousness, my personality, my being remains unchanged… pretty amazing to think that that “evolved” in just 550 million years! And atheists think Christians are stupid for believing in the most improbable of eventualities…
Um, that’s your cry of existential angst, remember? (just ask Dave)
Really? So, how do suppose this “obvious intellect” learned all it knows?
You mean like evolution, situational ethics, post modernism, existentialism, and man-made global warming?