I’ve always held the position that the best term to describe myself is “Atheist”, arguing that there is no ambiguity in the term. I’ve stated that using terms like Secular Humanist or Freethinker just muddies the waters and allows the ignorant masses to say “well, at least he’s not an Atheist”.After the Dole commercial, I’m considering going GODLESS.Godless also has no ambiguity, and leaves no room for debate as to what I mean or how I think. It also, perhaps, has an even more negative meaning than Atheist — thereby allowing me to do more damage to other people’s thought processes by showing how nice a godless guy can be.And, while we can debate the definitions of Atheist and Agnostic all night, Godless seems a broader term, encompassing more people who don’t like the A-word, but cannot deny the G-word.Perhaps we should take our cue from the bigoted former senator. Should we take back Godless?
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There’s no reason we can’t use both words. I titled my first book “Godless in America: conversations with an atheist” and the web site I started is called “Godless in America.com.”
So I’ve been referring to myself as godless and using both “godless” and “atheist” to describe myself. I’m quite comfortable with either word.
It can be tiresome to have even overt atheists like Maher rant about how dogmatic “atheists” are. “Godless” is clearer and less likely to provoke semantic arguments. It’s a bad sign when even supporters don’t understand what the terms mean so by all means, simplify, simplify, simplify.
Godless heathens, unite!
I already use godless to refer to myself. See screenname above.
I call myself Ungodly here and on my own heathen forum. That seems logically equivalent to Godless. I do agree that Godless has a nice ring to it, and is certainly unambiguous.
I’m not exactly godless. I just prefer my gods to be ones which can actually be shown to exist, like chocolate, and cats.
I don’t mind using either term though when referring to any supernatural beliefs. I’m not sure whether “godless” is any more/less pejorative than “atheist”. Godless is pretty straight-forward, while people still don’t understand atheist. But who knows? Maybe those who misunderstand atheist also believe that godless means devil-worshiper, baby-eater, hedonist, nihilist, et al.
I’m for whatever makes the biggest impact.
I put down Godless for religion on my Facebook page a couple of weeks ago.
I like it. It works for me.
It all depends on your goals. My goal is to be seen as perfectly normal and acceptable, to encourgage those on the edge of reason to come over fully into its territory. Branding myself with a label that amounts to a direct taunt of those very people and gives the impression that I’m revelling in some sort of evil glee isn’t compatable with that goal.
So no.
The term “atheist” is unfortunate enough, without adding to it. The only reason I don’t use the perfectly accurate “agnostic” (since I don’t profess to know either way) is because it gives the impression that I also don’t have an opinion. But that opinion needn’t also be given with a thumb to my nose and a hearty cackle…
Karen, get out of my mind!
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2008/11/15/tuchman.mummy.religion.cnn?iref=videosearch
I know this is a little late from what was being discussed earlier (with public displays of superstition), but to reaffirm the point, I think this video works perfectly.
godless sodomite
But, but…it’s so comfortably disturbing in there! And I just settled down with my popcorn to watch some gay porn fantasies unfold!
Dawkin’s spectrum of probability allows one to numerically rank one’s belief as to the probability of God’s existence. The options range between 1 and 7. (1 being unquestioning belief – 2 being unquestioning disbelief)
I rate myself at 6.9 because although I know of no evidence supporting the existence of supernatural beings, I cannot be 100% certain.
So, no matter what I call myself I usually end up having to qualify the term. (atheist, non-theist, godless, naturalist, secular humanist)
Maybe I’ll just start calling myself a 69er. Hey, it could at least be a good pick-up line, opening other viable options for communion other than religious ones…hehehe
correction:
(1 being unquestioning belief – 7 being unquestioning disbelief)
Tuen
I take a different approach. Since I think the question “Do gods exist?” makes no sense I wouldn’t place myself on Dawkins spectrum. So to anybody asking me to place myself on that continuum I would just reply that the question is nonsensical and please don’t waste my time.
gay porn fantasies Karen?…speaking of sex….the righteous are trying to reclaim there grip on sex….this morning Fox & Fiends had a segment stating sex was a blessing from the lord…one texas preacher told his flock to try it seven days in a row….
Think of all the baby godbots that will be created.
I used the term atheist until I told my aunt I was an atheist and she responded, “well then, god save the queen”… I find godless is less confusing.
It’s not the terms that are confuzing. It’s fundemented propaganda that sows confuzion. As long as there are religious nuts, They are going to give pejorative connotations to anything we call ourselves.
Get used to it. Just say what’s on your mind.
Tyro wrote: “It’s a bad sign when even supporters don’t understand what the terms mean so by all means, simplify, simplify, simplify.”
Much like the word “liberal” has been poisoned, and many on the left now prefer to be called “progressive,” “atheist” has been poisoned by religious people…”godless” works for me, but so does “secular humanist” and “freethinker.”
On the other hand, the LGBT community has reclaimed “queer” and other epithets…could we do the same with “atheist?”
I saw Paul Kurtz, founder of secular humanism, speak in London last January. I like what he said about the whole topic. He said, ‘I never liked being defined by what I am not.” That is why he does not like to be defined as an atheist.
Myself, I prefer non-theist and leave it at that. I think if others want to go by ‘Godless’ then that is also fine. I don’t like it for myself because it’s too confrontational. I believe in slow, majestic, moderate movements toward progress. History has shown those are the sort that last.
thx1138
The grammar nazis will getcha. “Theist” is Greek, “non” is Latin.
And, of course, “godless” is English.
Otherwise, how and why would anybody have a preference between these three identical words?
Did he say what he thinks he is?
That’s a weird notion. Can you name some examples of these slow, moderate movements?
Not the Reformation? The French or American Revolution? The Civil War? The New Deal?
What
I recognize the limited scope of Dawkin’s approach. However, I do feel it may be useful for some levels of discussion. I find your approach interesting and will ponder your thoughts. thx
What is the value in finding one specific word to define ourselves?
Tuen
One value is:
So we can beat the politicians over the head with all 16% of us.
Not to worry. We have a common word that describes us all. Atheist.
As I said above, there are other, equivalent, terms. But who needs them?
“Atheist” is the traditional, etymologically correct form.
Tuen
I liked 1 & 2 better. Unquestioning belief of any kind, positive or negative, doesn’t deserve a high rank.
NotSoFast:
Sure can. Gandhi, MLK, the fact that drunk driving has gone from fashionable to anathema in one generation.
thx1138
So that’s what you call slow, moderate?
These were all fierce, sharp struggles and, as you said, took place in one generation.
Pioneering reformers always face barriers that have to be broken thru with some vigorous effort. Madalyn is a perfect example: If she hadn’t been the cranky, pugnacious bitch she was, we might not be here.
I dont have time for slow or moderate activism which is why I have renewed my commitment to rally for the cause of gay rights and seperation of church and state and have redoubled my activism. Im struggling for my liberty and civil rights and cant afford the luxury of slow progress. In light of Prop 8 and the other bigoted legislation that passed all options are now on the table and there is no more Mr Nice Gay.
NotSoFast:
You make some interesting points and I, too, am leaning towards “Atheist”: although I admit to using more pliable labels when circumstance requires less controversial terminology.
Ultimately and/or hopefully, people will not judge us by our name, but our actions.
At this point in history, I realize most of our adversaries will never be capable of doing so.
If enough people are allowed to properly educate their childen, the future will yield more and more towards secularism.
I am an atheist but I will never be Dogless! (3 resident and 1 foster)
Call me what you want. I think religion is stupid.
If their side is “Hate the sin ,not the sinner” would that make our side “Ignore the groundless belief and defend yourself from the well organized believer”?
My problem with the word ‘atheist’ is only that some very ordinary dictionaries found in many homes outrageously have ‘wickedness’ and/or ‘immorality’ as definitions of ‘atheism’. I got the feeling that someone nearby who almost hissed out the word ‘atheist’ in disgust had possibly read that definition and took it to heart. What a bunch of bigotted bastards those dictionary writers were (are) who put those definitions in TWO dictionaries I have at home, Webster’s New Collegiate and Random House. Maybe there is a good practical reason to find another term for ourselves given this situation? Strangely, for some reason these definitons were missing from the unabridged editions I found at my library. What could that mean?
It’s atheist ’til somebody comes up with the a tiny amount of evidence otherwise.
tomath
Right. Most dictionary editors are religious, and their bigotry shows.
Ignore the definitions. Look at the etymology. The “a-” in front of “atheist” and “agnostic” means “not”.
It does not mean “against”, “opposed”, “rejecting”, “denying”, or any of those things. It just means “not”.
ANYBODY who is not a theist is an atheist, whether they know it or not. “Atheist” is the most general and most precise term for all people who are not convinced that there is any meaningful “god”.
“Agnostic” means “not knowing”, and that sure fits me! I certainly don’t know that there is any god. And the term is doubly appropriate to people who say “I’m an agnostic, not an atheist.” That’s like saying “This is an apple, not a fruit.”