The following is from Carl Silverman (No relation, but a well-known atheist activist and friend). The viewes expressed herein are not the views of American Atheists — we don’t directly support political candidates, but we do urge people to make calls and complain when assholes run off at the mouth.
Friends,First let me say that, despite what you are about to read, I still encourage everyone to vote for Obama. As we all know, we must focus on the Supreme Court.Nevertheless…..My wife and I went to the “Presidential Forum” http://www.christian-life.com/calendar/forum.htmllast night (Wednesday 10/29/08) at the Christian Life Academy, a megachurch here in Camp Hill, PA, expecting to be offended by the McCain-Palin surrogates. The event was being recorded/televised, probably for podcasting on the Christian Life website, but I’m not sure. I have listed the participants at bottom of this page.I submitted a question, specifically for the McCain-Palin people. Here’s the question, as asked by the moderator, who only slightly rephrased it from the original:”With at least 8% of Pennsylvanians being atheists, agnostics, and humanists, what are the McCain-Palin campaign going to say tonight to attract any undecided voters from that group of Pennsylvanians?”McCain’s National Evangelical Director, Marlys Pompa, said that McCain was going to be a president of all the people, people “of all faiths and no faiths.” She mentioned the “wonderful melting pot” of America, and generally emphasized the inclusiveness and unity of a McCain presidency. She, of course, did not mention Palin.The moderator then proceeded to ask another question, this time directed to the Obama campaign, but the Obama representatives insisted on responding to my question first.Don Miller, an author and social conservative who delivered a prayer at the Democratic convention, said, “Senator Obama has a policy director and an advisor for many different faiths. He has nothing on atheists or agnostics. There’s not this grand effort for the Democrats to reach out to a group of pagans to try to get them to vote for Senator Obama.”D. Paul Monteiro, Obama’s National Deputy Director for Religious Affairs, then said, “Senator Obama has a twenty-year history, a twenty-year testimony” and described Obama’s support for Bush’s “faith-based partnership program” and how Obama said “no” to those who distributed flyers at the Democratic National Convention urging him, on the basis of church-state separation, to oppose public funding of faith-based initiatives.Then, referring to Sen. Obama, Monteiro proclaimed, “This is not some crazy wacko atheist trying to make sure that your children grow up to marry trees.”Yes, Obama’s aides not only gloated that they were not actively seeking the votes of atheists, agnostics, and pagans, but delivered a slur of such an egregious nature that, if targeted against Christians or Jews, would have likely been fatal to Obama’s campaign. I can’t imagine Barack himself making such a grossly insulting statement.In addition, there was a dispute over whether Obama supported or opposed discriminatory hiring by publicly funded faith-based programs. David Barton, founder of the WallBuilders organization, claimed that Obama opposed discriminatory hiring, but Obama’s National Evangelical Coordinator Shaun Casey claimed that was untrue. To my recollection, based on Obama’s past statements, Barton was correct and Casey was wrong.In the future, I think atheists and other rationalists should create their own political party, not in the hopes of winning in this “Christian nation,” but at least to act as a spoiler against any candidate who does not treat us with the same respect to which believers feel they are entitled.Again, please vote for Barack, if only because Palin must be stopped.Feel free to forward or publish this message, but only IN ITS ENTIRETY.Carl H. SilvermanCamp Hill, PA[apologies if this email is poorly formatted]Copyright 2008, Carl H. Silverman. All rights reserved, except permission is granted to forward (or publish) this message in its entirety.
Comment from: castletonsnob
For anyone who is being intellectually honest has to admit NObama has been caught in several lies over the past 6 months…
His tax ceiling is dropping by the day…
He said not accepting public financing would be a threat to our democracy…
Then he decided to opt out…(by the way). Why would a politician disengage the safety check of matching addresses to credit card numbers?
You asked the question about McCain…
Give me such examples for McCain…
Comment from: Jaydave
Hmmm…no. Entitlements are the largest expense. And if you’re truly upset over spending then there is no way you’ll vote for someone who wants to increase spending AND taxes….
Something else to think about…
Seem a NObama administration would limit those who could interview them….
http://drudgereport.com/flashopp.htm
So much for an open government…
Phreek-
Go visit http://www.politifact.com and see for yourself all the lies that have been reported on the McSame/Failin’ ticket.
And no, they aren’t some leftie group with an agenda- they’re straight down the middle.
But I’m sure you won’t see it that way.
Phreeky has a problem with his long term memory. The last 8 years … gone.
Atheism is a major threat to the Christian Socia-l-ist Doctrine, which just happens to be what the Obama/Biden campaign is thriving on. Any atheist voting for Obama is just furthering the cause of Christianity, real communist Christianity, not the secular “American Dream” Christianity like you’d be voting with Palin.
phreedm wrote:
All right, phreedm, maybe I will–but before I devote my valuable time and energy to this pursuit, let’s make it interesting: If I can cite 3 examples of McCain lying, then you will compose and post on this site a sonnet to me praising my intelligence, integrity, and good looks as far superior to your own; if I can’t, then I will attend services at a local church of your choice for 4 consecutive Sundays.
Sound good?
Castletonsnob
My guess is that he will just not respond at all to your post. But, having said that, he probably will respond just to prove me wrong. And if he responds he will either withdraw his initial claim while committing to another lie or he will take you up on the bet but not pay up when he loses. He’s a pillar of character.
OK BJ…I did…
First post on their site today…
They claim that stating that NObama wants to experiment with socia1ism is a lie…
I’m sure you’ll agree it is, but that’s being intellectually dishonest…
When the government decides who makes to much of anything, that’s the beginning of socia1ism…
That’s not exactly a lie, but a disagreement in definitions…
Have you paid attention to the tax ceiling changing this week? Two months ago…250,000. In his own infomercial it dropped to 200,000. Biden stated 150,000 last week before the NObama campaign put a muzzle on him. Yesterday Bill Richardson made that number 120,000.
Do you honestly believe that when you give a politician the authority to tax a separate class within our society, that when they need more money, that they won’t eventually come after you? If you do, you haven’t paid attention to the way government works…
Do you believe that those who don’t want to pay taxes are being “selfish’?
Or do you believe those who WANT to pay taxes are being more patriotic then those that don’t…?
What a warped way of looking at America…
Cnob…I made a similar agreement with Alex once…in the end he backed out of his responsibility for loosing…so, nah, I’m not interested in playing your little game…
OK…for the 6 posters left on this site. Those of you who support the “messiah”…please tell me why you believe NObama will take care of you when his past actions prove differently…?
Obama’s aunt living in U.S. illegally
56-year-old residing in Boston slum ignored judge’s order 4 years ago
How can a guy worth millions fail to take care of his own family…?
Some conservative “intelligence” at a McCain rally:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagD-4AH4Vc
phreedm wrote:
Can you substantiate this claim?
I think it’s much more likely that you realize it’s not wise to bet on the complete honesty of any politician, even the one you support, which was my original point.
Obeah
Wow. I think I need to go wash my brain after watching that video. Wonder what all those folks are going to do if Obama wins? Secessionist Alaska is looking more and more possible all the time!
Castlesnob
I think the bet phreedm is referring to ended with both parties claiming a win. But I don’t recall the particulars.
Karen,
I am really worried that that level of political discourse could lead to violence. The stupidity is painful.
I continue to be highly amused at phreeky’s desperation. Who was it who claimed giddiness over Palin’s entry?
from karen:
I suppose both sides claiming victory is a real possibility, unfortunately. It would make sense, then, to leave the the final determination to a third party agreed upon in advance by both participants.
Would you like to be that third party, karen?
Obeah
That worries me too. Aside from the threats to Obama himself, this election may trigger another civil war. Maybe not a full-fledged one, as in the 19th century, but the polarization is disturbing.
Castlesnob
I doubt phreedm would accept me as an unbiased third party. I don’t think he would hold up his end of the bargain if found to be the loser of the bet. And the whole semantic battle of what would constitute a lie on the part of McCain (in phreedm’s eyes) tires me just thinking about it. So, no, I’m not very interested in being the arbiter.
Karen, your reluctance is completely understandable. We would probably have to find someone outside of this site to be the judge. And if one of us agrees to abide by the findings of that judge and refuses to do so, he should be banned for life from this site.
Perhaps we could enlist an actual legal court judge to do it.
But I’m getting ahead of myself, of course. Phreedm has already stated he isn’t interested. Pity. Could be a wonderful opportunity to stick it to the atheist, phreedm, show me up as a godless dunce.
Isn’t it just a little tempting?
mxracer652:
Correct…our new deal was a disaster… However many European countries attempted their own “new deals” after WW1, and most were very successful.
castletonsnob,
Save your effort. Here is a video with three McCain lies in the first sixty seconds, straight from the horses ass… er, uhm, mouth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&NR=1
Ahem, Ren–
Ix-nay the Ain-Mccay ies-lay ideos-vay. Ou’ll-yay ook-spay eedom-phray!
Anks-thay, uddy-bay!
castletonsnob,
o-nay roblem-pay. y-may ad-bay!
oodles-tay
Oy vey! John “Keating Five” McCain lied?
The fact is that Obama has waged the cleanest and most serious minded campaign I can recall. McSame’s has been dirty and prank-like with new gimmicks daily.
It’l be a cold day in hell when any presidential candidate in this country caters to atheists. Since hell exists only between the ears of religious folk, that’s gonna be a long,long time.
Obama did include “non believers” and “those with no faith” in a couple of his speeches when describing citizens.
That’s probably about all we can expect from any politician running for office.
He got my vote, and I wish him luck with fixing the mess he is inheriting.