I had always thought of the Girl Scouts as an all-inclusive group, as opposed to their male bigoted counterparts. I remember at the Atheists in Foxholes Event, a local chapter of the GS passed out candy bars to Atheist veterans, just to be nice.Then I got this link from a person whose daughter has been “offered the opportunity to opt out” of saying the GS pledge. The GS does specifically mention God in their pledge, although it seems to be a small g. Still, it’s very unsettling and I wonder, if they are going to be so open to let people interpret God as they see fit, why they put such a divisive statement in in the first place.http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/promise_law/
The Girl Scout Promise and Law are shared by every member of Girl Scouting. The Girl Scout Promise is the way Girl Scouts agree to act every day toward one another and other people, and the Law outlines a way to act towards one another and the world.The Girl Scout PromiseOn my honor, I will try: To serve God* and my country, To help people at all times, And to live by the Girl Scout Law.The Girl Scout LawI will do my best to be honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do,and to respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.* The word “God” can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one’s spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word “God” with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.
1st post, WooHoo! The GS was not like that when I was there (70’s). I guess they’re following somebody’s dumbass lead (BS?).
So you’re complaining about the Girl Scouts using the word god in one fo their pledges? If that’s the worst we have to worry about then things are pretty good. I wonder, do the Girl Scouts recieve taxpayer money? If not, is it really any of our business? I mean I agree that any group that recieves public funds should not be allowed to discriminate in any way, especially those damned faith based charities, however, if a group doesn’t recieve any public funds, it should be allowed to set any membership If you don’t approve, no one’s forcing you to sign your kid up. Then again, maybe we could start some sort of Atheist scouts…
It would be nice if these groups would use phrases such as “to serve my god,” instead of referring seemingly to just one, specific god by saying things like, “to serve god.” It would just be a more professional way to word their pledges, if they have to have unnecessary god-talk in them, to begin with.
Internet ate some of my post. I meant if they don’t recieve public money, they should be allowed to set any standards for membership they want.
Fosters
A grocer has the right to sell only chocolate ice cream and if the customers want strawberry they have the right to ask for it. So ask.
Fosters,
Yup. No law has been broken here, it just that the GS may not be all I thought they were. Consider yourself more informed.
D
The Girl Scouts voted in 1993 to allow changes in the promise; this was the same timeframe as atheists in the Boy Scouts. The BSA went to court to keep atheists out; the GSUSA voted (1560 to 375) to stay inclusive.
See http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE1DA1E3AF936A15753C1A965958260
The GSUSA also has to stay in good terms with the World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, which they are a member of, and which has a vague, mealy-mouthed ’spiritual’ requirement of their member organizations. The GSUSA tells WAGGGS that they have one, but they also admit atheists.
Both WAGGGS and WOSM will probably continue to run into more problems, especially in countries where:
1) scouting programs are government-run, and;
2) atheists can’t be discriminated against by the government
In reply to Fosters24: Yes, they’re perfectly within their rights (if not government funded) to only admit theists. But what is the point of doing so? It really has nothing to do with what Girl Scouting (as I understand it) is about.
In reply to SuttSteve:
“to serve my god” would be no better to me – I have no god and nor does my daughter.
Note that they say (on their website, but not on their registration form!) that “The word “God” can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one’s spiritual beliefs”, which presumes that one must have spiritual beliefs. I don’t have any spiritual beliefs and I’m pretty sure my daughter doesn’t – unless belief in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny count.
The official position is that a girl may substitute ANYTHING there, from “To Serve God” to “to honor the earth” to “To Serve Adinoi” to “respect all people” to whatever you want to say.
I am a Girl Scout Leader and I am a agnosticish person (not quite atheist). I make sure every parent in my Girl Scout troop knows that any religion, all religion or not religion is allowed. If someone is uncomfortable with saying the promise as stated, I will work with that parent to come up with something that fits what they wish to say. I generally suggest to “respect all people” as that is kind of what most people want anyway.
Really, NO BODY IS FORCED TO SAY WHAT THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN! We are far more inclusive than other groups.
Spacemom,
Thanks for making sure all feel welcomed, and yes, I absolutely agree that the GS is far more inclusive than the Bigoted Scouts of America.
Having a god-pledge forces an atheist to either say there is a god in which she believes, or out herself to her troupe, troupe leader, and her family. Lots of atheistic kids have theistic parents who would get very angry if they knew about their daughter’s beliefs, and a god-pledge forces the issue. It serves no positive purpose.
Scouting for Girls? Dave I thought you were happily married.
Dave,
I must respectfully disagree that the god-pledge serves no positive purpose. Why should atheists hide in the closet? Why can’t agnostics and atheists be proud of who we are? Any girl who chooses to say something different opens up a great discussion on how people are different and how, as Girl Scouts, we need to accept people different than ourselves.
Also, I would never out a child to their parent about anything, from birth-control, to sexual orientation to atheism. The GS are about the girls…
And, as someone pointed out, the WAGGS requires some sort of faith statement and the GS USA did their best to both address WAGGS, but leave the decision to the girls.
Spacemom
What is it?
SpaceMom:
Have you looked at the registration form? It requires signing to accept the pledge with the words “to serve god”.
Well that really depends on the troop leader and their beliefs, doesn’t it.
And yeah, how on earth does the god-pledge serve any useful purpose?
Be honest. Everybody knows that the term “inclusive” is just code for forcing people to accept things they have a right under the U.S. Constitution NOT to accept. It’s called freedom of religion and thereby freedom of association.
The Boy Scouts simply cannot be “bigoted” against Gays because being a homosexual doesn’t make a person a member of a protected class, like race. Further, as a private organization, they HAVE A RIGHT to limit membership!
Get a grip.
Tim May
They have the right and we have the right to point out their bigotry. But appears that you are not happy with this little arrangement – with our constitution.
timmy said
NOT if they are obtaining government funding (which they are) for bigotry based on religion.
IT might be a good idea that when one sees them outside of grocery stores asking for my money, one might say to them that one doesn’t support religious organizations and that they should not be in public, they should be at a church. And one might make sure their mother hears this.
One might not support the cookies anymore also. It’s sad that these parents will go to any measure to have them sign a contract with a non existing character.
FYI, they’ve cashed my registration fee check, so I’m guessing that they didn’t mind that I’d crossed out the offensive wording on the registration form! No obligation to the imaginary! Hooray!