In their summary of my interview the board said “We have no doubt of this young man’s sincerity, however we do not see how he can qualify as a CO”.

In 1968 I refused induction into the US Army.

In 1970 I was arrested.

In January 1971 the gummint dropped the charges and I won. It seems that in failing to give a specific reason for denying my original application they had denied me due process.

So it would seem that an atheist can be a Conscientious Objector, or at least they could under the Selective Service Act of 1967.

I ended up teaching TV and small appliance repairs at a Goodwill facility as my alternative service.

Thanks for the post. And thanks for your commitment to rationally directed behavior even though it could have or may have cost you dearly.

This deserves a thread:

http://tinyurl.com/46mzmy

In the NT, Jesus promised to do the most killing in human history and never denounced the OT kill-fest for Jehovah. Later on in the Bible, we read about Armageddon.

Maybe the judge never read the Bible…

Joe Zamecki
Austin

What about MY sincere beliefs?

Exactly what are you beliefs Dave?

I asked in an earlier thread of how one develops a moral foundation when their belief system basically says anything goes…

But instead on answering the question, the new president of AA took the easy path of character assassination and name calling…

Would one of those beliefs be killing is wrong? All killing? Why is killing wrong? Based upon what? And if it’s based upon something, why is that “something” valid?

You think I’m being argumentative, but I’m not. These are the questions I get from teenagers when we discuss the merits of being religious or non-religious…

Exactly what is the code of ethics a non-believer follows and who developed those codes?

Okay, let’s take your example to begin. You ask, essentially, if someone does not believe in a well-defined deity how would that person know killing in wrong?

Frankly it comes down to the nature of the act. Humans define killing another person (and animals in certain circumstances) as morally wrong when you voluntarily opt to prematurely end the life of another living creature.

Now morally there is some debatable wiggle room when it comes to things like coercion, assisted suicide, or self-defense, and those nuances to the question should be actively debated, but let’s remain talking about the core question for now.

Remember, killing as being morally wrong is a human construct; we created the rules of right and wrong. Other members of the animal kingdom (of which we are a part, like it or not) live in worlds of acting out of necessity absent of moral concerns (as far as we know at this time). If my studies serve me, Christians when Christianity was born were staunch pacifists, up to and including refusal to self-defend because killing was deemed wrong; however, the “wrongness” of killing was grayed during the many Crusades that came centuries later because “moral authorities” changed the rules.

There is another aspect you mentioned which also has bearing on the conversation. In my opinion, it appears that the “atheists/agnostics say anything goes” belief is inaccurately applied to the group. It has been my experience that the statement should be more like “anything goes that does not directly impact others and that does not violate the commonly agreed upon rules of our society.”

I know from experience that several of things I have written have common pitfalls and retorts, and these are general statements, but I look forward to continuing the discussion with you.

You don’t kill me and I won’t kill you is a logical and self evident first basis for a moral code that does not require any Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy.

A truly imaginative creature might realize that mutual adoption of the golden rule would be a great add-on, and Jeebus did not invent the golden rule, so don’t even go there.

Sky fairies are not required for morality, in fact they nearly always pervert it into something obscene like a religion.

Good on the soldier, but he should have thought about that more before enlisting.