Palin and Joel’s Army

Thanks to JE.

Palin’s Churches and the Third WavePart 1: http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/5/0244/84583Part 2: http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/5/03830/11602 Scary video in the second part:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K_1Eit0pxM&eurl=http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/5/03830/11602With links to other scary videos:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ4WOOceGishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVIPF_PmHuQ&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpKR0REYrnY&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7n3h0fCAYkhttp://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=964′Arming’ for ArmageddonMilitant Joel’s Army Followers Seek Theocracy By Casey Sanchez Photography by Lowell Handler Intelligence Report Fall 2008

79 Responses to “Palin and Joel’s Army”

  1.  quantum_flux says:

    Would rather be on the Christian Conservative side in this conflict than on the Communist/Islamic side. I’m not saying “Welcome to World War III” because nobody on either side really would push the button except maybe on the Islamic side of things. As a conservative atheist, plan (actively plan) for the best and prepare (actively prepare) for the worst. The Christians are the puppets for us atheists in this conflict. Atheism is a result of secular logic being applied to the natural world, but with political activism I believe that these Christian Zionists can be controlled by us.

  2.  quantum_flux says:

    Fact: No Christian is going to be raptured up into heaven.

    Fact: The Christians want to bring democracy to the Middle East (little do they realise that free trade is good for atheism and bad for religion, so they really are pushing our secular American agenda). Anyhow, a democratic republic would give reasonable oil prices if there were competing oil companies instead of unionized companies.

    Fact: Sarah Palin wants to drill for oil in Alaska which is good for American economy, so let her do it!

    Fact: You can’t destroy belief in Creationism in a classroom setting unless you first can mention it in the classroom and explain why it is wrong or controversial.

  3.  jamieguinn says:

    QF:

    On fact 1: Okay.

    Of2: They want to bring Jesus to the Middle East even more so, or (like in the Crusades) make them wish they had Jesus. The question is: Do they want a democracy? If not, are we right in forcing them to accept our political ideals?

    Of3: It’s not that simple.

    Of4: Sure you can.

  4.  quantum_flux says:

    By the way, the Holy Spirit is merely a repressed sexual urge and is a sensation of egoless zombiness due to Church Doctrines such as “Live to serve others” and “Die to the desires of your old self”…. porn may very well be a solution for these nuts ;)

  5.  quantum_flux says:

    Hey, things are as simple as they need to be, any simpler and they’d be incorrect and any more complex and they’d be wrong. I believe Einstein said something along those lines.

  6.  what says:

    Dave

    Please delete quantum-flux’s posts. He is obviously just trying to be disruptive or he is having a mental health crisis. Seriously.

  7.  quantum_flux says:

    What, I raise perfectly valid points that perfectly rational atheists can consider and then reject or accept. No need for censorship on these points.

  8.  Asemodeus says:

    Suddenly introducing democracy to a region does not prevent extremist or religious nuts.

    Since what did Iraqi’s do when they got the chance to elect their leaders? They elected religious extremists.

    They are already forcing native christian Iraq’s from the country and any other group they don’t like.

  9.  quantum_flux says:

    I’m sure they’d rather be introduced to capitalism instead of communism.

  10.  phreedm says:

    quantum_flux…you’ve most likely been around long enough to realize that “What…do I know”…is a hysterical member of this blog who can not stand up to intelligent debate…

    He along with about 3 or 4 others will sooner then later turn to “censorship” as their answer to your very thoughtful statements and questions…

    Fact: You can’t destroy belief in Creationism in a classroom setting unless you first can mention it in the classroom and explain why it is wrong or controversial.

    Absolutely great statement…

    Even though I would debate from the opposite side, this is exactly why the vast majority of atheists want to keep the debate out of the classroom…

    The thought that any “Intelligent Designer” might be discovered, whether an alien or deity, scares them to death…even their prophet, Christopher Hitchens believes in the possibility of ID…

    Think of the results of this position. Dave and AA are able to not only use this debate as a fund raiser, this debate is also the foundational argument against school vouchers…

    The results? Dave and Barry (AA and the ACLU) are two of the main organizations who condemn inner city kids to stay in failing public schools…

    And as any world history student knows, an uneducated society is easier to control…

  11.  phreedm says:

    This thread is nothing more then another “Anti-Palin” post, poorly veiled behind the idea of “Joel’s Army”…

    Funny…I don’t remember similar threads discussing NObama’s 20 year association (AS AN ADULT) sitting in the pews of a church that teaches “Black Theology”…

  12. Tim Ren says:

    What,

    Q_F has every right to post his opinions in this forum. He just proves the old axiom, “It is better to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.”

    Phreedm,

    Even though I would debate from the opposite side, this is exactly why the vast majority of atheists want to keep the debate out of the classroom…

    I’ll make a deal with you. I will agree that creationism should be taught alongside evolution in public schools, when you agree that science should be taught (by qualified individuals) from the pulpit, in churches.

    The thought that any “Intelligent Designer” might be discovered, whether an alien or deity, scares them to death…

    I don’t know who you are talking about, but it certainly isn’t me. I want to know the truth, and only the truth, no matter where it leads me. So far, I have seen absolutly no evidence of anything supernatural. I have, on the other hand, seen tons of evidence refuting said entities. That is why I am an Atheist. No need to inject fear into the equation.

    And as any world history student knows, an uneducated society is easier to control…

    You are absolutly correct. Now tell me again why Adam and Eve were thrown out of the G.O.E.? Oh right! FOR EATING FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE!

    Funny…I don’t remember similar threads discussing NObama’s 20 year association (AS AN ADULT) sitting in the pews of a church that teaches “Black Theology”…

    Gee, Phreddy; I wonder what kind of theology YOUR church would preach if it was YOUR race that had been enslaved by our country for over 200 yrs, and then institutionally discriminated against for another 150 yrs.

    Are you even capable of placing yourself into someone else’s shoes? Might I suggest you talk to your church elders about doing some missionary work in Haiti? I believe it would open your eyes quite a bit. I know my tour in Haiti was a life altering event for me.

  13.  TXatheist says:

    Dave…OT,
    But the article is by an atheist and the rebuttal at the bottom is by Alexander( a jew) so I wondered your opinion on this.

    http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/09/09/07/0907sartwell_edit.html

  14.  Augustine says:

    Just out of curiosity, why is reverend wright’s black theology worse than Jerry Falwell’s anti-gay theology? At least wright has a historical base. I can’t name a single occurence where homosexuals have repressed others rights.

    Didn’t wasallia develop a 20 million dollar debt during palin’s leadership?

  15.  quantum_flux says:

    My opinion about Creationism being taught in schools:

    http://irrationaltheorist.blogspot.com/2008/09/go-ahead-teach-controversy.html

  16. Tim Ren says:

    quantum_flux,

    That is the most lucid thing I have heard you say in days. I would, however, like to bring up a point that you made.

    it would make for very powerful lesson plans if teachers were told to teach the controversy, but they must first be non-superstitious themselves.

    That is the crux of the problem, isn’t it? With eighty some odd percent of Americans identifying themselves as Christians, it is safe to assume that a similar percentage applies to teachers, as well. How many teachers would teach creationism as just another competing theory, and how many would teach it as fact?

  17.  Asemodeus says:

    “How many teachers would teach creationism as just another competing theory, and how many would teach it as fact?”

    That is besides the point. Teachers do NOT have the right to teach what they think they should teach. They are forced by state law to teach what the state wants them to teach.

    Which is why teachers who teach creationism are giving up their jobs by doing so. It isn’t that creationism is junk, its that they are violating state law.

    So if a state were to allow creationism into the classrooms while at the same time have actual science taught in churches, it has nothing to do with the opinions/faith of the science teachers.

  18.  quantum_flux says:

    Students have to pass their classes. If we get rid of the teachers union and tenure (something McCain/Palin are for), then teachers will be awarded based on performance instead of seniority. Unions for teachers doesn’t make sense, dammit, it pretty much is communism! Teaching is supposed to be a vocation. I believe that creationist teachers will be upstaged by evolutionist teachers (as shown by performance) and the thing will iron itself out.

  19.  quantum_flux says:

    By the way, is there a better word to use for that besides “vocation”?

  20. Tim Ren says:

    I believe that doing away with teacher’s unions, would just open the door for McSame/Pale-in-comparison, to fire those teachers that refused to teach creationism as fact.

    And that’s a fact, Jack.

  21.  quantum_flux says:

    Firing of teachers is done by performance.

  22. Tim Ren says:

    By the way, is there a better word to use for that besides “vocation”?

    How about “profession”.

    4 a: a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation b: a principal calling, vocation, or employment c: the whole body of persons engaged in a calling

  23. Tim Ren says:

    Firing of teachers is done by performance.

    Exactly! If they don’t perform to the new standard, they will be fired.

  24.  what says:

    Ren

    Dave does delete posts. A “right” to post here does not exist. In particular Dave will delete posts that are preachy or spam-like. Quantum has definitely become a preacher. Whats more it is very difficult to tell what he is preaching about.

  25.  what says:

    Quantum

    Your solutions to “problems” always consist of string of improbable and loosely connected events. This sort of thinking, which is referred to in the medical community as loose association and tangential thinking, is typical of schizophrenics and those with schizoid personality traits. Have you been diagnosed with either? I am not taking a jab at you. I merely want to know who I am talking to so that I may gauge my reaction to your posts.

  26.  Dorky Mommy says:

    I want to know who decides when a teacher is successful. The teacher whose students pass all the standardized tests, or the teacher who inspires students to do some unconventional thinking? Some of the best teachers I have ever known were unconventional, and their best lessons were realized in late life, not in the testing sessions.

    If you consider teaching to be a vocation, you might want to consider turning over all education to nuns and other religious people, who believe they are called by god, and don’t care what their salaries are. But, then you will not have real education.

    Teaching is a JOB. A hard job. And it should be rewarded properly. Teachers’ unions are protection against arbitrary discriminatiion.

  27.  quantum_flux says:

    My standard the Richard Feynmans and Roger Penroses of the world.

  28.  quantum_flux says:

    A lot of teachers are just holding back!

  29. Tim Ren says:

    What,

    Well, I guess I had better clean up my vocabulary and start using words like coitus, penis and vagina, instead of fuck, dick and pu$$y, huh?

    Wouldn’t want to upset the children with my ‘adult’ language.

    Look, I understand what you are saying, but I am such a staunch proponent of free speech, that I don’t believe in calling for others to be censored. If Dave decides to delete a post, so be it, but that should be his call. It is his blog, afterall.

    So how are the wife and kids?

  30. Tim Ren says:

    Dorky Mommy,

    Excellent post. You might want to think about changing your handle. You’re not dorky at all.

  31. Tim Ren says:

    What,

    I have been diagnosed with tangential thoughts. Perhaps you have noticed? Sometimes it takes me a half hour to get around to my original point, by which time I have forgotten what it was I wanted to say. But I am definitely not schizophrenic, and neither is Ren.

    Oh wait… nevermind!

  32.  what says:

    Ren

    I agree that it should be or will be Dave’s call.

    Wife and kids are fine. Thanks for asking. Yours?

  33.  what says:

    Ren

    I’m about to head out on a bike ride with the kids so I will make this quick. Tangential thinking is not a diagnoses but rather I symptom. I see no evidence of it whatsoever in your posts. To the contrary your posts are well organized and fact-based as opposed to delusion-based.

  34. Tim Ren says:

    What,

    Family is doing fine. Thanks. I wasn’t even sure you had a wife and kids, I was just trying to keep my post light hearted.

    I believe you when you say it is a symptom and not a disorder in and of itself. You can credit better living through chemistry for not being able to notice it in my posts, but boy, you should hear me talk when I get excited/agitated:-(

  35.  charlie says:

    I cant believe atheist are considering giving religion more credulity…..

    so how does 6th grade science class go….

    well jimmy…god created eve from adam’s rib…

    how about we focus more on what we know…..like the earth is a hunk of cooling metal on an axis in an orbit around a glowing ball of hydrogen….

    The Gall that people have telling me about the likes and dislikes of thier supernatural friends….

  36.  karen says:

    Ren

    Even my tangential thoughts have tangential thoughts have tangential thoughts have tangential thoughts have tangential thoughts…

  37. Tim Ren says:

    Karen,

    And so it goes. How ’bout them NY Giants? Did I tell you I have a dog? My favorite color is blue…

  38.  karen says:

    DorkyMommy

    I agree with Ren-great post!

    And it’s hardly fair if teachers are being assessed by student progress alone, when one teacher may be given a class of AG students and another teacher may have a class of repeaters, with BED, ESL, and BMH mixed in. AYP (Accepted Yearly Progress) is a joke, because all schools are not held to the same guidelines. If a school does not have a certain number of ESL kids in the school, then that subset of growth is not measured for that school, for example.

    Student and parental responsibility has to be taken into account. It is very difficult for a teacher to impress upon a student the value of learning if the parents don’t reinforce that in the home. And a teacher who has to constantly discipline students who don’t know how to or refuse to behave in a classroom setting, there is little time for teaching.

  39.  karen says:

    Ren

    Blasphemer! How many times must I tell you? STEELERS!!!!!!! Yellow and Gold. Terrible Towel. I need to do laundry…

  40.  quantum_flux says:

    6th grade science class consists of explaining why creationism is incorrect and why evolution is correct, why faith in God is superstitious and how secular science can explain reality much better. Kids ought to be able to explain the basic principles of newtonian gravity and electromagnetism by that level, know something about waves and the different types of waves. Kids should be able experiment with telescopes and microscopes by the 6th grade and have a basic understanding of celestial mechanics and germ theory. An atheist professor should expect no less!

  41.  quantum_flux says:

    With computer aided learning and Wikipedia these days, kids should be able to explain things people learn in college these days

  42.  charlie says:

    quantum_flux

    what god fearing “science” teacher is going to explain why faith in God is superstitious….

  43.  karen says:

    I’ve googled 6th grade science curriculum and it barely touches on evolution, and varies by state. Georgia’s mentions the Big Bang, but I didn’t see evolution. In states where evolution was present, it was in the 7th, and last competency goal. If teachers go in order, they may not even get to it, but they don’t necessarily have to go through the book in order. Still, it wasn’t a highly developed unit, mostly vaguely introductory. How much gets taught will be very dependent upon whether the state will be doing standardized testing in science or not.

    Here’s the NC Standard as an example:
    http://www.ncpublicschools.org/curriculum/science/scos/2004/19grade6

  44.  quantum_flux says:

    Any science teacher that is paid on a performance basis would not necessarily make it if they turn their lectures into a theology lesson.

  45.  mxracer652 says:

    Karen – Stillers!

  46. Tim Ren says:

    Any science teacher that is paid on a performance basis would not necessarily make it if they turn their lectures into a theology lesson.

    Unless of course, we end up with a Theologian in Chief.

  47.  quantum_flux says:

    Even if we have a “Theologian in Chief” as you like to call John McCain and Sarah Palin, that does not amount to Monarchy. Nobody has to suck the pope’s dick here. Teaching science will not ever revert back to the dark ages.

  48. Tim Ren says:

    Teaching science will not ever revert back to the dark ages.

    Famous last words. I sure hope you are right.

  49.  mxracer652 says:

    Eh, it probably will go back to the dark ages. Fuck it, open a beer & enjoy the show. You’ve got a front row seat here in the US!

  50.  quantum_flux says:

    I know I am right :)