We support the separation of church and state, but do not endorse candidates or parties.The DNC Convention. Discuss
We support the separation of church and state, but do not endorse candidates or parties.The DNC Convention. Discuss
Since 1963, AMERICAN ATHEISTS has been the premier organization laboring for the civil liberties of Atheists, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion.
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What,
I give up. You either don’t read what I type or fail to comprehend it.
Atomic
Atomic
Your problem conversing here is that you can’t seem to follow the guidelines you set for others. But even more importantly you have no authority to set any guidelines.
Now that is a perfect example. You demand that others support their claims with facts yet you absolutely refuse to do so yourself. Here’s a prime example of that:
You have repeatedly stated here that Obama advocates for socialized medicine. This is grossly incorrect and I have pointed that out to you numerous times. There is a big difference between socialized medicine and socialized medical insurance. Either you do not understand the basic facts in this regard or you are intentionally trying to mislead. Is there a third possibility? You tell me.
As far as insulting my intelligence goes. I get a kick out of it.
foot152
I here ya. I was an independent until BushCo was elected.
phreedumb,
Enlighten me on how many jobs have come to America due to free trade.
Taxation and regulation have everything to do with the cost of doing business in America. That was exactly my point. I guess the students on the short bus need a little more time get the message.
NeoWolfe
As far as the Dems pandering to the religious nuts: Folks it is the oldest trick in warfare – divide and concur. If the Dems are successful in splitting the religious vote and thereby rendering them irrelevant then fantastic.
Obama just voted to give $300 billion to big agribusiness for marketing, tax breaks for race horse owners, and the ethanol scam among others.
I don’t see how much more of a whore he could be towards corporations & the rich than anyone else?
Time to pull the wool back folks.
Tangentially related to the thread:
Elizabeth Dole Attacks Senate Opponent for Meeting with Atheists
As a result of this press release, people who never heard of Kay Hagan and who don’t even live in NC are sending donations to her campaign. Read the comments in the link below at Hemant’s blog for some very well-written responses to Liddy Dole.
http://friendlyatheist.com/4229/elizabeth-dole-attacks-senate-opponent-for-meeting-with-atheists/
Uh, yeah, when I am talking about what is needed to sway my opinion about something I really do get to set the rules you presumptuous douche.
The only difference is in your own head if you actually believe that.
No matter how you slice it the goal is exactly the same. It’s to force everyone to pay into everyone else’s medical costs. I am sorry, but I don’t give a shit about a majority of people’s health problems because many of them are self inflicted. The obese, chain-smoking, beer-swilling liver-killing public is not my concern. If you want to subsidize their unhealthy lifestyle, convince your state government to create the program and tax its citizens. If I am unlucky enough to share the same state with you after your success at this, I’ll move.
Creating a system of “insurance” where nobody is turned down, nobody can opt out of, everyone pays for, and all medical expenses are paid is identical to socalized medicine in every respect. Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.
Karen…
That article is mirroring the Obama’s campaign tactics…
What’s wrong with pointing out who our politicians associate with?
You can’t deny that those who are throwing the fund raiser are on the fringe…
Comment from: mxracer652
MXR…careful. What-do I know will resort to childish antics and insults…
atomictesticles,
I have yet to hear any coherent arguments to support your objection, either to socialized practice of medicine, or socialized medical insurance. Canada has it, and so does Britain, and even the medical community has rated their medical care equal to ours. Yes, they pay for it in taxes, but what do you want to do, pay four hundred bucks a month per person in your household to a greedy ass insurance company you have to take to court to make them pay up, or to the government with no argument. But wait, maybe it takes Canadian doctors a little longer to pay off that third Lambourghini. And maybe there is no motivation anymore for hospitals to hold medicare patients in order to keep their beds full.
The system is broken dude, and you are freaking out about the POSSIBILITY that someone wants to fix it. Don’t you understand that there are thousands of people here in our country dying because they can’t afford the heath care that they need. Those people are beloved fathers and mothers and children. This is real tragedy happening every day so rich people can get richer.
My father was fifty two when he died of colon cancer. He never smoked a cigarette in his life, barely drank at all. He had medical insurance, and what they didn’t pay forced my mother to sell the house where I grew up, sell my grandparents trailerhouse (my grandmother had to move in with my uncle)and go live with her brother.
So much for your self induced tragedy theory. I think you might be right about your connection with phreedumb. You’re like two penises in a pod. Fred Phelps is to Christianity as you idiots are to free thought.
NeoWolfe
NeoWolfe
hello..this is williams.as far i know obama politics are very cruel.
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NeoWolfe
Atomic and I have been at it before over the medical insurance issue. He simply does not understand the basics and refuses to learn. He is a very ideological chap. He insists he doesn’t want to pay for others medical care but doesn’t understand that he already is and always will be. The only question that remains is how to do it efficiently and robustly – two specifications which are almost always at odds.
Notice…Obama isn’t saying anything…
Lot’s of fluff…and no substance…
The DNC “closing benediction” is just another thing I can tack onto my list of why I’m not voting.
Spinfusor
Splitting the evangelical vote makes them politically irrelevant = good thing!
Closing benediction = divide and conquer.
Lots of memorable and insightful lines from Obama’s speech. Here’s a few of my favorites.
and
and
and
and
and
I wonder how many theists will be asking if gawd is trying to tell the rethuglicans something. From The Washington Post:
Gov. Palin for VP?
Just watch the feminists attack her…
And “feminists” come in all genders…
Don’t they “What…do I know”?
Atomic, What, mxracer, neowolfe, others…
Even though I don’t wish the insults would continue I appreciate the discussion on insurance/healthcare. Can anyone else confirm medicare only spends half of what privatized healthcare does in admin costs? I read that the other day. Please don’t insult me
both parties are funded by the same sources so how does one think there is going to be any major change.
TX,
You are probably right, I am quick on the trigger, and don’t mind trading paint with mental midgets. That’s not always a constructive choice.
Reason,
Major change happens in a lot of different ways. If you were Polish or French, major change came when Nazi Germany invaded your country. That’s not a good thing.
Major change also comes when tsunamis stike like it did in Thailand and Malaysia. That’s not good either.
But, major change also happens when a dynamic leader comes along who rallies the hearts and minds of his people to work as a team to reach a goal. This may be a poor example, and I will probably get trashed for this, but, Jesus was a visionary that changed the perception his people had of god from “Jehovah of Armies” to a father figure of love and forgiveness. He was promptly rewarded by the ruling religious class with death by slow torture, but he changed the face of the planet forever, or at least until man is extinct.
My point is, that while ample reason exists to be synical about future possibilities, we have two choices, to have hopes and dreams and fight to make them come true, or quit.
NeoWolfe
TXatheist,
They lied. What the Govt. does in that case is shift much of the administrative overhead to the hospitals. They do this to bolster their own numbers in a way that is harder to prove.
This has been discussed ad nauseum. Take a look at this thread:
http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/index.php/2007/10/05/unchristian
neowolfe,
I understand that several posters on the blog recently ripped you a new one. Contributing to the hostile attitude by picking on the nerdy guy with the glasses in order to make a few friends is a bit low. Are we in High School, or are (some of us) educated adults? My beef is with What. He is right that we have all been over this before.
The pompous “I’m a doctor so I know better than you and you just need to learn the basics” attitude is exactly the same as the “I’m a Christian so I know better than you and you just need to see the light!” attitude. I have educated myself quite well on this topic. Also, What makes it painfully obvious that being an M.D. clearly confers no special understanding of medical insurance (or anything else).
What,
The statement…
…makes it rather clear that you have no intention of trying to actually support your position that there is functional difference between out-and-out socialized medicine and socialized medical insurance. This statement appears to be conceding the point. Good on you. Doesn’t it feel better to just come out with it that your position is based on your personal feelings and not on evidence?
It was a sneaky duck indeed, but I flushed the little fellow out into the open. Now, let’s see if you can concede this point too: Since the government has mandated automobile insurance in almost every state the costs have continually gone up. The government created a situation where they have handed the insurance companies our balls and the government is entirely to blame.
I’d like you to do a little homework and find evidence that the government runs programs better and cheaper than the businesses they replace. I’d also like to see a little bit of evidence that the government can do no wrong and that they are less open to corruption than said buisnesses.
You seem to have gotten this notion that there is a magical conferrence of divine purity to the actions of our federal government as long as Democrats are in charge. I suppose when fiscal conservatives (yes, they are hard to find in this day and age) are in charge they’re under the influence of Satan.
There are corollaries to be found between dogmatic political ideology and dogmatic religious ideology. In this country I am the heretic, on both accounts, and a lot of libertarians are atheists. Try and figure out why that is and get back to me.
TX
Medicare spends around 2% of its funds on admin whereas private insurers spend around 15%. This along with the fact that there is universal agreement that anybody should have access to emergent medical are the two most important pieces of the puzzle.
Atomic
I will address your propaganda this evening. For now you could take a look at the widely respected report on medical costs in the US called the McKinsey report.
Doesn’t anybody here work!?
http://tinyurl.com/ara5g
“We often hear that Medicare and Medicaid are efficient. The government says Medicaid only spends about 2 percent of its budget on administration. But that ignores all the costs that are shifted to doctors and hospitals. When you incorporate
all those costs, it turns out that actually Medicare is not very efficient at all.”
Was all said and quoted before. I still have not seen a single refutation.
Way to disrespect points with a dismissive attitude. I used to be more civil. Anyone would get a little bit pissed when others shovel shit on them all day.
You got me. I actually support government social programs because I live off them. Thanks for paying all my bills so that I can complain about the state of society paying all my bills.
It would be nice to see points debated without personal insults slung at those who disagree.
Is it Ok to post something about the convemtion? Or will that interrupt your conversation??
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/sally_quinn/2008/08/atheists_the_last_political_ou.html
Idon’t know how to make a link here but type that in and you’ll see just how welcome we are in the “big tent”
“(Bob) Tierman says he just couldn’t stand it anymore. “I stood up (at the intrefaith gathering) and said “I am a Democrat but I’m not a person of faith.” I said ” This looks like a church service to me and I never thought I’d see to Democrats do this type of thing.” At this point, the police came and escorted Tierman from the Hall.”…
Don’t even tell them that you don’t believe or else they’ll have the cops throw you out.
So this is why I’m supposed to vote for Obama??
Teammarty,
Great find. I, too, would love an answer to your question.
One thing I could not help but notice was the title of the article: “Atheists: The Last Political Outcasts”
This makes me sad, in a way, because we truly are political outcasts. The thing that I do look up a bit more about is the idea that we are “the last.” This is an indicator that if we keep up the fight, we’ll eventually be accorded a place at the table. That is an encouraging thought!