We support the separation of church and state, but do not endorse candidates or parties.The DNC Convention. Discuss
We support the separation of church and state, but do not endorse candidates or parties.The DNC Convention. Discuss
Since 1963, AMERICAN ATHEISTS has been the premier organization laboring for the civil liberties of Atheists, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion.
Copyright 2012. All materials contained on this site, whether written, audible or visual are the exclusive property of American Atheists.
SS fix? Remove the cap on income above 90k…problem solved.
SS is an illegal ponzi scheme that is destined to fail without an accelerating population growth model.
And I’m fucking tired of being ripped off for the promise of a shitty return on my investment 40+ years away. Anyone with half a brain can do better in an IRA.
+1 McCain, let’s start a tally.
MxRacer
Do you think IRAs are immune to bad investments made by the custodians of the IRA? Not when banks start going under. And the wave of financial giants failing is just getting started.
TX
Bingo!
Absolutely!!
I think I won the point TXatheist, when pressed to make a point, the troll turned into a dandelion top of sterile seeds blown into to the wind by a kindergartener. But, his type is never going away, at least until genetic mercy killing becomes legal. That’s a joke.
NeoWolfe
NeoWolfe
That was perfect. Don’t address Le Phreak directly. Just indirectly mock and ridicule it. Bravo.
What,
I am part of no conspiracy to eliminate or even discourage phreedm. The Dalai Lama thinks that the folly of man is ultimate source of humor, and I’m not sure I disagree. Phreedm is a pathetic wart, but why don’t we keep him around as a court jestor. Sometimes during moments of laughter we need a brunt, but more importantly, when we become self absorbed we need someone to pity.
NeoWolfe
NeoWolfe
It is not my goal to rid this blog of Le Phreak. If we did another would simply take his place. I suggest we just have fun at his expense.
Ok this is totally unrelated but I though I would throw it out there anyway, in one of my classes we were doing this goal setting worksheet and it asked us to rate our spiritual life, defining it as “Your personal philosophy and inner feelings about life make up a part of the spiritual portion of your life plan. Also you should think about your personal convictions in this section” then it has 5-”It couldn’t be better” all the way down to 1-”I need work” so I didn’t really know what to think of this…is it really appropriate to talk about that in public school?
cbo,
that’s nebulous enough to not warrant too much attention. Of course, the entire context must be taken into account.
What,
The market returns an average of 9% y/y, far & above what the government returns for your SS tax. Anyone close to retiring would have blended out stocks for bonds or cash & thus been immune to the latest downturn. Everyone else has enough time to ride it out.
Life isn’t sanitized, saran wrapped & heremetically sealed.
I find it hard to believe that you lack that economic understanding, so are you just making excuses for people being too lazy to learn about something as important as retirement investing?
Comment from: mxracer652
What…do I know’s arguments were used in 2001 when there was an attempt to allow people to opt out of SSI…
It would be risky to invest in the stock market was the mantra…
The Dow stood at 7500 then…from there it ran to 14,000. Only a person with no understanding of economics would claim SSI is a better investment…
But then again…”What do I know” believes Obama is his salvation…
What ever happened to self-reliance…?
TXatheist–
Um . . . . maybe I’m a financial idiot, but what does that mean?? Do you mean that any income over 90k should be taxed at an even higher rate? That doesn’t seem fair to me. I think I heard that there is a 90% income tax rate on some of the very wealthy in the UK (or it used to be that way – I’m too tired to look it up now.) Seems like taxes that high will discourage businesses.
pixel
Once you reach a certain point of income, you quit paying out on social security for the the year. I guess that line is at 90K now. We used to use the “free social security” month’s money to pay for xmas presents; it was usually October thru December. Of course, if you make 90K by April, you only pay into SS for 4 months of the year.
Mxracer
Until it doesn’t. Which is now.
The compounded average y/y (year-over-year) change in the stock market was about 5% over the past century. You may disagree with that number but here is the more important number. The range of fluctuation in y/y returns is much larger – maybe two fold. So on the average people will make money if they don’t get wiped out. SS is our societies way of telling people that they must be responsible for themselves – not the opposite as you claim. It is our societies way of telling you you that if you are going to take risks with your money our society well fine but we are going to force you to put some aside so that we don’t have to bail your sorry butt out when the inevitable happens to a large number of investors.
To a seasoned investor your proclamation of 9% y/y will sound an awful lot like “home values never decrease”. Do you have any idea what is presently happening to our economy? Do have any idea what has happened in the past?
There were at least for huge stock market crashes in the 20th century: Wall Street Crash of 1929, stock market crash of 1973?4, Black Monday of 1987, and the DotCom bubble of 2000. Lots of folks were wiped out financially. I’ll bet they are real happy they have SS regardless of how they felt about SS before their fall.
And that is what SS is for. It’s not a retirement plan.
I thought this thread was supposed to be about the Democrats.
On the topic of social security, I tend to agree with the supporters of the present program, as long as you recognize it for what it really is (i.e., the world’s biggest welfare program for the richest portion of Americans).
On the topic of the Democrats, I find it a bit hypocritical for a blog about atheism to be so supportive of a political party and a candidate that are so infused with religion.
Neowolfe, I don’t doubt for one second you won the point on phreedm. I’m just saying he’s not here to converse but antagonize, that’s all.
Thanks karen. Yes, after 90k no SS is collected on income. That’s the shortfall problem.
geoih,
Your point is well taken, and I share your pain when I hear politicians talk about their faith and family values, as though one has anything to do with the other.
Karen and I had a discussion about that on another thread, and I made the point that as long as the blinded majority (evangelicals and fundamentalists) retain their right to vote, because of their sheer numbers and political activism of religious organizations,politicians have no choice but to pander to their interests in order to be elected.
It may leave a bad taste in the mouth of a free thinker, but obviously, the Democratic party is less poisoned by the influence of the radical ultra right wing. What comes to mind is the congressional order to the Supreme Court to review the case of Terry Shiavo, a case over which they had no authority. It was Republican grandstanding on their “sanctity of life” platform. The real hipocrits are those that worship a god that murdered an entire planet in the flood, yet claim that every life is sacred.
NeoWolfe
TXatheist and Karen,
I think that debates on the economy are empty unless you discuss the root of the problem. Free trade agreements have pitted American businesses toe to toe with third world sweat shops. They have no EPA requiring them to invest in the technology to limit pollution and requirements for disposal of hazardous waste. They have no labor unions forcing employers to provide safe working conditions and a fair wage so that the vital working man gets his piece of the pie. No OSHA, no building codes or inspectors, all of which become overhead expenses for American business.
So who benefits from free trade? Marketing fat cats who buy lead toys in China in such bulk that they can afford to ship them to the opposit side of the planet and still net huge profits.
Free trade with countries like Canada, Britain, France is okay with me, because they have a similar standard of living, similar regulations on manufacturing, but even then, Canada bankrupted our timber industy, and France nearly destroyed our steel industry. And John McCain’s first proposal for boosting the economy was a free trade agreement with Colombia. Yeah that’ll work. What a joke!!
But the bottom line is that a good economy cures everything else. Social Security, funding higher education, maintaining infrastructure, solidarity of financial institutions and unemployment. The only thing it won’t cure is religion.
NeoWolfe
As long as the govt. insists on stealing (yeah, that is the right word – when you “borrow” money from S.S. with no intention of paying back the money it really is stealing) from S.S., the S.S. program can be made to look as though it is failing. Put the money (even without interest) back and you’ll see that S.S. is more than solvent.
PS.
Oh, yeah. You know who else benefits from free trade. Huge corporations who pack up our jobs and take them to third world countries and open their own little “sweat shops”
NeoWolfe
I cannot seem to find a single shred of common ground with you. I said that I cannot bring myself to vote for Obama, I did not say that I am voting for McCain. If the congress were controlled by the Republicans and Obama would drop the socialized medicine bullshit I would consider it. It’s not, and he won’t.
Your profession may make you feel intellectually superior to others, but it doesn’t. You cannot even read a simple statement without making assumptions and charging about like a bull that has seen red. I stated my reasons for my opinion. If you somehow think that making a total ass of yourself by swinging at windmills is going to sway me to your point of view, you are sorely mistaken.
If you are trying to do so, do so with facts and evidence to support your claims. If you are not trying to change my mind, lay off the needling already because it is seriously pissing me off.
P.S. It might help your cause to avoid being inflammatory and cease using childish neologistic terms such as “rethuglican.” It might have been cute the very first time you used it. Now it merely remains as a constant reminder to the rest of us of the level of your intellect.
Comment from: geoih
Right on target…something I’ve been saying for years…
Why hasn’t AA or the ACLU condemned the opening church service which has used public funds?
Simple…they only use the “myth” for their own advancement…it has nothing to do with “Truth”…
atomic
Hope you have plenty of kleenex – All those tears might short out your keyboard.
It appears the weak minded on this board who support censorship are merely following Obama’s tactics…
A great window on how he’d governn…
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/08/obama_campaign_confronts_wgn_r.html
Comment from: neowolfe
How little you understand…
How many jobs were imported to America?
Now, taxation and regulations wouldn’t have a thing to do with the cost of doing business in America…now would they…
I knew there was a reason that I rarely post here anymore. While I enjoy conversing with many of you, I receive this kind of treatment whenever I share opinions that some of you do not like.
Loathe as I am to admit it, I’m starting to think Phreedm is right. Maybe you are just shills for the Democratic party.
FYI, Independent.
I’m not so much pro Obama as I’m anti GOP. I personally believe any vote for anything other than dems is a vote for the GOP and I won’t go there! Was independent till I went dem so I could vote for Gatewood Galbreth (sp). I worry that if the GOP can make Max Cleland seem not patriotic enough, what’ll they do to Obama?