August 22, 2008 Fundamentalist Group Drops Public Funding Windfall After Americans United Protest Kentucky Arm Of ‘Teen Challenge’ Gives Up $50,000 Federal Grant A fundamentalist Christian group that claims to help young people overcome drug and alcohol addiction through Bible study and prayer has given up a federal grant after Americans United for Separation of Church and State protested the funding.Attorneys with Americans United wrote a letter to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) in June, noting that a $50,000 grant to Teen Challenge of Kentucky raised serious constitutional issues. The money was allocated through the Compassion Capital Fund, a special program created as part of President George W. Bush?s ?faith-based? initiative.Teen Challenge, Americans United pointed out, requires participants to take part in prayer, worship, Bible study and other religious activities. Program participants must sign a ?Civil Rights Waiver? in which each surrenders the right to ?exercis[e] the religion of my choice.?Applicants for the program are required to describe their Christian faith and agree to conduct themselves in a ?Christ-like manner.? The organization vows to offer ?deliverance from addiction through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and practical application of Biblical principles.?Public funding of such sectarian activities, Americans United asserted, would clearly violate the First Amendment.In response to Americans United?s letter, an official with HHS wrote to say that Teen Challenge ?voluntarily terminated? its participation in the program.The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, Americans United executive director, said he was pleased with the outcome but noted that Teen Challenge should never have received public funds in the first place.?Teen Challenge boasts about its program being saturated with fundamentalist Christianity and makes it clear that required participation in religious activities is key to its approach,? Lynn said. ?I cannot imagine a worse candidate for tax funding. ?Bush administration officials have claimed that they do not fund religious activities, but this grant suggests otherwise,? he continued. ?Apparently their policy is to do it until they get caught.?Lynn noted that while Teen Challenge and other fundamentalist ?faith-based? groups often claim high rates of success, no empirical data backs up the claim.?Tax funds were being funneled to this organization even though it openly boasts about its religious content, and there?s no evidence its approach even works,? Lynn said. ?This incident is a perfect example of what?s so wrong with faith-based initiatives.?AU Senior Litigation Counsel Alex Luchenitser, who handled the AU complaint about the funding, said, ?This was a clear example of unconstitutional support of religious coercion and discrimination. I?m glad we were able to bring the matter to an appropriate conclusion.?
American Atheists extends our congratulations and compliments to Americans United for your outstanding activism and bloodless victory in exposing and blocking an unconstitutional expenditure of federal funds unlawfully going to a religious organization in Kentucky.
Hardly Dave…
Who’s taking the place of “‘Teen Challenge”?
You? Barry in his ivory tower?
Just like education, you don’t care who you hurt to enforce the myth…
Tell me Dave…exactly how much money does AA give away to attempt to fix the “ills” of our society?
Truth is…it’s zero.
If you’re not part of the solution…you’re part of the problem…
phreddy:
The cats out of the bag now,” If you’re not part of the solution…you’re part of the problem…” Only a narrow minded moron thinks in such absolutes… you’re obviously President Bush.
Definitely a big victory for the unfortunately uber-christian state I call home (Kentucky). I knew the Creationism Museum is pretty much in my back door (about 8 miles away) but I didn’t know we had this Evangelical program supported by OUR tax dollars. So great job AA and Americans United for Separation of Church and State for fighting and winning on this unconditional force-fed evangelical religious program. I am just glad my tax dollars aren’t going into this anymore.
I hear about Americans United and the FFRF doing good things like this all the time. American Atheists? Not so much.
can’t sign away your civil rights.
se people don’t care if it works. “Working” is not the issue for them. It’s about trying to convert them. That’s all.
?Apparently their policy is to do it until they get caught.?
Case closed.
Oh, that’s easy. Narconon, which has a very effective program aimed at drug users.
Very effective in duping people into joining Scientology, that is. They likewise, conspire to get public money to fund their proselytizing. Theirs is a more covert approach though, where they hide their association with the programs they sell to school boards, prisons, et cetera.
There’s no reason a Christian should object to Scientology doing the same work, with about the same results, is there?
I still suspect our resident troll of being a parody carried out by an atheist. No theist would ever say the things he does, making the religious look so bad.
this sock puppet thing disturbs me….I am going to wish it were not so all day….
if this is true dave….I will still read the blog because of the great read I find from posters like Karen
suck it non taxed churches
Comment from: I’M Not A Bear!
INAB…I’m glad to see that you object to making absolute statements…
Tough to be an atheist though WITHOUT thinking in such narrow minded absolutes…
Would it matter if only one person was rescued from addiction? Two?
How about personal testimonies…
http://www.weatherforddemocrat.com/local/local_story_208111125.html
Come now…surely AA or Barry have an equally successful program….
Can ANYONE point to ONE program sponsored by AA…?
Truth is they take taxpayer money also…they just use the courts to steal it…
If this is true, then this program is in clear violation of the First Amendment. Even if it is not technically possible to “sign away” one’s civil rights, those entering the program are being coerced to forego whatever religious or non-religious beliefs they hold and openly subscribe only to Christianity to be allowed to participate. It seems then they go through an indoctrination process (required prayer, worship, Bible study, religious activities, and conducting oneself in a “Christ-like manner”, during which they simply trade one addiction for another.
Congratulations to AU for exposing and challenging the taxpayer support of this program and initiating an end to it. I would like to see AA involved in this kind of activity. And I would like to see AA support secular programs to end addiction. There are some out there. When you beat an addiction through behavior modification and self-reliance and better self esteem, you have a better chance against relapse, IMO, than if you rely on imaginary friends.
Dear phreedm,
You wrote:
My response:
You make it sound like there’s some shortage of treatment programs, as if the teens of Kentucky are doomed to lives of addiction and despair if it weren’t for Teen Challenge.
But even if it were the only program, how exactly is it the responsibility of American Atheists and Americans United to find a replacement?
Again, why is it the responsibility of American Atheists to fix all of society’s problems?
But it does, in fact, combat at least one major problem in the world: religion. By opposing faith, dogma, and supernaturalism in favor of reason, compassion, and open inquiry, it has done more to improve people’s lives than a billion prayers to a thousand gods has ever done.
A Christian accusing someone of hurting others to promote a myth?
You have a true gift for irony, sir.
Good work AU.
KA
Did you see this from Phreeky:
So stupid it IS funny. Do think that maybe JCC could now give Phreeky a lecture on double blind studies and placebos?
Yet another consequence of the rethuglican war against the islamobogeyman:
http://tinyurl.com/0
What:
Or maybe they could collaborate on a kid’s book: ‘The little addicts that COULD.’
The world abounds w/stories of breaking addictions using some external means, not all of them are religious.
I used Tai Chi to kick a serious meta-amphetamine addiction myself. By myself, I might add.
I don’t see why such organizations need public funding. They have GAWD, don’t they?
Seems as if–him being all powerful and everything–that he could help them out with the bucks they need. Jesus could turn water to wine, and feed the multitudes with a couple of fish or something. It’s been a good while since I had that crap pushed down my throat but it was something like that I think.
So what’s the deal? Has the magic gone and fizzled?
Comment from: castletonsnob
Dear phreedm,
Fair question…
First let me commend you on posting a thoughtful, coherent response…
What I get tired of in all walks of life are those who attack those organizations that are trying to make a difference in the world…
It’s so easy to take the road of being a critic in life…
It’s much more difficult to try and actually make a change…
How many times to I hear complaints about education in the country? Even though it’s a known fact it’s the left that controls it, AA consistently voices opposition to any plan using taxpayer dollars that might rescue kids from failing public schools…
Why? Simple. They are nothing more then a wing of the DNC…
Here’s a prediction…
AA or the ACLU won’t complain about the current events taking place in Denver…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080825/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_democrats_faith
We all know some taxpayer money has been used for the convention…
But hey…they’ll turn a blind eye as long as the Dems give them another “intellectually superior” supreme court justice like Ruth Bader Ginsburg…
Do you have proof of this statement?
And yes…a myth. Nothing more then a fund raiser at the expense of the taxpayer…
http://supreme.justia.com/us/143/457/case.html
Phreeky wants us to think that the corporatist rethuglican party is an agent for change. Maybe they are. Just not the kind of change anybody that has been paying attention wants. What a dolt!
Wrong as usual.
Why do people always find god after they do something wrong? It would almost seem as if god needed people to mess up. Or maybe a good, pious christian can explain why jesus doesn’t think that “a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”, to borrow a clich
Ha, that’s easy. That way they don’t have to take responsibility for their actions. My invisible friend understands and forgives me, so it’s all good. Hahahahaha.
Did Teen Challenge actually call it a “Civil Rights Waiver”? I mean, really? Or did AU use that name to describe what it really is.
They wouldn’t actually, blatantly, ask people to sign something called a “Civil Rights Waiver”, would they? They’d at least try to conceal the fact, right? We can’t possibly be in such a sorry state that people now feel totally comfortable asking people to openly give up their civil rights.
I’d have to do a LOT of drugs (and I don’t do any) before I signed a “Civil Rights Waiver”. Guess that’s how it works, huh?
Ain?t it amazing what can be accomplished when the immaterial will is determined to overcome the material that it had previously conditioned?
mdetrano
Yes they do. Google ?Civil Rights Waiver? (use the quotes) and you will see a pdf file of that “waiver”.
I need a big comeback here after trashing karen for saying something JCC said.
Wish me luck.
The Bush administration was the big champion of the “faith based initiative” which would basically entitle all religious charitable organization to the same federal funding as secular charities. What is totally absent is any checks and balances on how the money is spent. What the practices they use to administer benefits to recipients, nor any rules on hiring members of their church to man the operation.
Not long ago a member initiated a thread regarding the use of crosses for marking the sites of fallen law enforcement personell. I thought maybe we should reconsider, and pick and choose our battlegrounds where we can win hearts and minds, and not offend the public at large. I got trashed, and everybody who responded to my post felt like we as free thinkers must dig in at every point that religion attempts to make inroads. Maybe they are right, and I am wrong.
But, of this I am firmly convinced: This faith based initiative is definitely a line where we need to draw the line and stand until the last appeal is exhausted. I know that Obama is just pandering to the right when he hints that under certain circumstances and federal rules he can conceive of a modified faith based initiative. But, this is the federal government, which already grants taxfree status to these perpetraters of mass consumer faud, federal money, our money to supplement their interests and political clout.
Now, to address JCC. You say you used Thai Chi to rise above your meth addiction. Good for you, that stuff is bad luck in crystal form. But your fundamentalist friends will crucify you if they discover you have been practicing pagan rituals.
I went to NA, they told me to admit I was powerless. I said “no I’m not, and if I were I would also be hopeless, and I am not ready to admit that.” They said to throw my burden on the higher power. I said, “Why the hell would I want to replace one mental crutch with another?” They said to take one day at a time, and I said, “Screw that, I’m done being the slave of something that doesn’t even have a brain.” So I quit because I loved my family. That simple. No ooga booga required.
NeoWolfe
Ah…no. It was Bill Clinton…
So exactly where were you or AA or the ACLU when Clinton signed the “Charitable Choice” into law…?
Or when Gore promised to expand “faith based initiatives” if elected president…?
You’re proving my point…
My dear neowolfe,
You have not been cured of footinmouth disease.
You have the wrong person again.
You are not reading the larger name.
Um….Neo, hon, I hate to break it to you, but it wasn’t jcc who used Tai Chi to break his addiction, it was KA.(Krystalline Apostate)
Maybe you should keep a little notepad with you beside the computer to mark down who said what?
Congrats on breaking free of your addiction and for refusing to say you were powerless. Good for you! If you ever do need a higher power, you can always throw your burden on the cube. For verily, it is a higher power than the square.
The thread about the crosses honoring the fallen law officers is an old issue, actually. I don’t remember why it was brought up again; new ruling on the matter? Anyway, the thing is, the crosses are like 10 or 12 feet tall and along the side of a public road. The dead guys (I assume) have their own proper headstones on their graves where they are buried. But the people pushing the crosses want the places where the men died in the line of duty to be marked also. Well, can we erect 10 foot crosses in the middle of a city block? Inside a bank? As I think someone said, in front of someone’s house if a firefighter died there? It’s just nonsense. And I think you said something about cemeteries, maybe even Arlington, because of all the crosses. We’re not disputing that. It’s the religious display on public property or property maintained by taxpayer funding. See?
I agree that the faith-based initiatives constitute a battle that we must fight. I hope Obama is as much a panderer for votes as he seems and not a true believer. The turning of the DNC into a prayer fest with the deliberate snubbing of non-believers has sickened me. Once Obama achieves the office, maybe the religiosity will quiet down and he will employ reason. Maybe.
Comment from: karen
So let me get this straight…let’s hope Obama is lying now, so we can trust him later…?
So why isn’t there the same outrage as the original thread? Over 13 million taxpayer dollars have been spent on the Democratic National Convention…
And yet, not a whisper from the ACLU, AA, Barry or Dave…
So why does everyone on this board with such high morals support the party who constantly lies to them, constantly forgets them, and constantly throws them under the bus…?
phreedm
everyone on this board does not support the democrats.why do you want to hand out money to every tom dick an harry who claims to believe in jesus.how do you know they really believe it could be just a scam besides where in the constitution does it give the federal gov’t the right to take our money and spend it on folks who broke our drug laws.