Hi Atheists: The Minnesota Democratic Party has just announced the creation of its Faith Caucus. http://www.dfl.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7b86F98DC0-8DFF-4263-B62E-B73BC3C2776A%7dI have called for the abolitition of the Faith Caucus. I would like someone from your organization to comment on the matter, but going to my blog and leaving a comment. http://gavinsullivan.blogspot.com/2008/08/abolish-dfl-faith-caucus.html How do you feel? Very best regards, Gavin Sullivan
Here’s how I feel.Lets invent an imaginary party, called the Davocrats. Now the Davocrats are a wonderful group of people, because they have every priority I have, think like I think, and represent my values. I think you would call me a die-hard Davocrat.Until the davocrats come out with “faith equals morality”, faith based initiatives, and faith-inspiring publicly funded programs. In other words, they say religion > nonreligion.And the Davocrats lose my vote. They’re bigots after all.
Here’s the real question…
What’s more important…your hatred or your principles?
I remember Ellen being chastised for stating last winter that she wasn’t going to vote in this election…
At least she walks the walk…
While I think it’s admirable and good that you hound your leaders to push them into supporting you, I think you’ve lost the plot when you say that this faith-based initiative will lose them your vote.
Do you understand that several of the liberal judges on the Supreme Court are going to be retiring very, very soon and the next president will get to appoint the new one? Do you understand that these judges last for decades? Do you understand that the court is so close to being dominated by repressive, faith-heads that a vote for habeus corpus of all things only passed by one vote?
There are bigger matters at stake here. With a couple more theocratic reactionaries on the bench, you will be dreaming fondly of the days of GWB.
You could always vote Libertarian, Dave. Bob Barr is a douche, but it’s not like he’s going to win.
You are so right on Tyro
I find this funny…..here’s a list of secular counties…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state
scroll to Contradictions
I feel betrayed.
But then I don’t live in Minnesota.
I think a Democrat will turn his/her back on religion when the majority of the population becomes secular. That may take a while unlike in Europe where religion is becoming the minority.
So I’m supposed to vote for Obama on the outside chance that he will uphold the constitution when it comes time to select a replacement on the court? The man who not only wants to uphold the faith based initiative but wants to let “liberals” like Rev. Wright in on the boondoggle.
Just shut up and vote for us and matbe we’ll throw you a bone.
Someday.
Vote Liberatrian if you want REAL change and an absolute and unapologetic separation of church and state.
Bob Barr ’08!
http://www.lp.org/
Thanks for posting this, Dave. I blog mainly about the race for Congress in MN3. The race has a theocratic-secularist undercurrent which may interest your members.
http://www.gavinsullivan.com
Very best wishes
Gavin
It’s all fine to push for a more democratic process, to seek more debate, to push people towards a more noble end but in the meantime, this is the world we live in. As hard as it is, the reality is that either Obama or McCain will be president and McCain has a history of supporting some of the wildest reactionaries you could think of.
You may think the president has a lot of impact, but the supreme court has the power to grant or deny abortions, habeus corpus, environmental protection, freedom of speech, freedom of dissent and the protections you take for granted. There are people on the bench already who would do away with these, Constitution or no.
Don’t forget that McCain supported a judge that wanted to restrict free speech to strictly political topics. You think religious discrimination is bad now, it can get a lot worse.
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/07/mccain_and_the_supreme_court_1.php
Dream of a better world, but vote in this one.
This is nothing to do with this article, but I want to know what you guys think about that Kansas church protesting the funeral of that Greyhound bus passenger, who was decapitated and cannibalized as “God’s way of punishing Canadians for enabling abortion and homosexuality.”
I think its the Westboro Baptist Church.
Well the good news is we can vote…..the bad news is the choice is a democrat…..It doesnt seem likely that a third party choice has no wish to be so…..and in the past dems appoint liberal judges and the thuglicans appoint disciples….
reality sure sucks some times….
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 2nd goal of the “Faith Caucus” is
“supporting, promoting, and defending the freedom of conscience and religion guaranteed in the bill of rights, and the prohibitions against religious tests in the Constitution of the United States and the Minnesota Constitution.”
The principle looks very secular in nature. I wonder what the activities of the group will include. I think we would all agree in defending the prohibition of religious testsfor public office, a practice that is no longer respected by modern media and voters.
Hate to say it but, one and only one of two men will be the next prez of America, there are no other options. Christianity is a fragile form of sanity. If you want to protest the stacked deck I suggest you pick another year to whine. We are all in trouble and what are we going to do? The more pain the Christians feel the louder they squeel. Throw the dead ideology in their lap.
So once again, it’s a choice between the nazi and not-so-nazi wings of the Republicrat party. Or else.
After trying to freeze us out of their party, the shut up or get out ultimatums, I’m not going to give up my vote so they can get their turn in the trough.
Which year are we supposed to vote our issues on issues important to us?
When the Democrats say it’s OK. When the Greens grow enough to get electoral votes?? Is the point of voting being able to brag “I voted for the winner!!” like you hit the trifecta at the track?? Or is it trying to push America back on the track to freedom.
If having a softer pillow with a mint under it in the (future) camps that important to you, go ahead, vote Democrat, but don’t expect better.
Well, for starters, get your terminology right. Refusing to waste your vote is not “whining”; it’s preferring to be a part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
There is never going to be a good” year to dump the 2-party system. 50 years ago would have been a lot better than now, but it wasn’t done. The longer we put it off, the worse it will get.
In fact, I doubt there will ever be a better year than this one. No matter which of them wins, religious freedom is going down the tubes. Voting for a qualified candidate will not stop that, and neither will voting for a democrap or a rethuglican.
I wonder, Marty and NotSoFastSo should we vote for McCain? Or a third party candidate who will not pull 1%. Should we stay home election day to really show them how dissatisfied we are with the duopoly? Now in the real world. If McCain wins he will probably take America into war on Iran. If McCain wins, he will start construction on a new batch of nuclear power plants. One of two men is going to be prez no ifs about it. Back on track to freedom? Part of the solution? What is your point?
Democrats are Republicans wearing a different underwear. We need a strong third party that would be willing to represent the American People solidly without churches getting involved. It is a good thing that this idiots are not involved in aircraft design; for that matter they will come out with an aircraft designed to fly with two wings on the right side of the fuselage.
Now that I can no longer tell the difference between the two parties on separation of church and state, they can have my vote when they pry it from my cold dead hands!!! (I’m trying to “defect” to Canada over this anyway)
Those damn dirty apes
The two party system will only meet it’s demise when Jesse Venture runs:)
If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil.
Ralph Nader
I am happy that Obama is trying to win the religious vote. For decades the GOP has been using the religious dolts to advance their big money corporate interests. They pay lip service to their issues – almost exclusively abortion – and give them nothing. It’s about time that the other 99.99% of the American people put these gullible lemmings votes to use to advance our agendas.