It irks me.It doesn’t hurt me, and it doesn’t cost me anything. It just irks me when hotels assume their patrons are Christian (or Mormon) and leave their god texts in the hotel rooms. It makes me feel — solidly second-class.The Borgata is equal-opportunity, and provides all sorts of religious reference materials on request, at the front desk, but nobody is assumed to be anything. I stay there when I can for that reason alone.Now this, from American Family Ass.
Parent company Accor Hotels decided to replace the Gideon Bibles with “intimacy kits.” For Accor, providing travelers with sexual paraphernalia is more important than the Bible. Accor Hotels owns several chains including: Motel 6, Sofitel, Pullman, Novotel, Mercure, Suitehotel, Ibis, All Seasons, Etap, Formule 1. While these chains are mostly located in Europe, Accor is expanding to many U.S. markets.
http://www.afa.net/emails/transform.asp?x=hotels_111407&m=11&y=2007&s=browserTalk it up. What do you think of Bibles in hotels. Should we try to help the trend? But how?
I’m with Reason on this one. Nobody should be removing stuff from hotel rooms unless it really wasn’t meant to be there in the first place.
If I tear down the curtains because they’re ugly and I don’t agree with them, should I be able to get away with that? Can I justify that by saying that I didn’t want the curtains there in the first place?
From what I’ve heard, the Bibles are donated by whomever and are the property of the hotel. They’re not free for the taking unless it explicitly says that somewhere.
On the other hand, putting post-it notes in there pointing out errors is a great idea. That doesn’t damage the books. The same could be said of hiding anti-religious tracts (can we call them Jack Manly tracts?) in between the first couple of pages.
The United States was also founded on slavery as well, does that mean that we should we put slaves in every room too?
Religion is no more a part of the constitution than is slavery, making women do all of the housework, or abusing the poor.
On the topic, I was amused by the comment Cynic made a few days back about bibles in hotel rooms:
If they end up in the trash can or otherwise destroyed then there is nobody to observe the rude gesture (and it is meaningless). Tossing them into the hallway roughly enough to leave the battered piece of crap for someone else to find, that’s just priceless. It sends a message: This country does not belong to you alone. Keep your preaching in your churches where people came to hear it.
The bibles are donated free of charge to the hotels by the Gideons and as such it is not legally or morally wrong to do what you wish with this unsolicited and unwanted literature. Just dont steal the towels which are hotel property.
Alatham
You appear to be suggesting that the giddy buybulls are hotel property. I have found no legal precedence or case ruling that says they are. Maybe there is such a ruling but I have not found it.
Comment from: alexatheist
Wow…
Why do blacks get to use the word nigger when talking about each other…?
Why do gays get to use the word queer when talking about each other?
Seems to me if a word is so offensive to the group it’s used to describe, then even that group wouldn’t use it…
Thanks Alex…I’ll use the word “queer” from here on out…
I’m sure you’ll sit quietly by and listen…
Hmmm…”What do I know”…
That was a tongue in cheek comment…
Comment from: VegeBrain
Duh…
However, the bibles were used in EVERY court in early America…
Vege
And don’t forget that air was breathed in every court in early America.
Yah, and slaves outside every court, as well.
I travel all the time and print out normalbobsmith.com pamphlets and put one inside every bible that I can find. They’re awesome, check’em out:
http://www.normalbobsmith.com/publicity&promotion/pamphlets.html
how many of you have the guts to go and trash a koran in a majority muslim nation or a torah in israel.
Hey…who was the village idiot who thought a gas tax holiday was a worthless idea…?
I’m sure one was “What do I know”…
Maybe his sock puppet ((tom))…
And it was legal to own another human being in early America…whats your point?
I dont mind when straights use the word queer or faggott at all so long as it isnt used in a threatning manner. Its just a word after all. Have at it phreedum.
I agree totally.
The bibles are usualy given to the hotel by the Gideons. The Gideons want you to take the bible if you wish. It says so in a Gideons bible. If they offer the bible for your use they havve no say in how you use it. Do with it as you see fit.
Well if LarryGeater is correct then there is nothing legally or morally wrong with treating the refuse any way you want. I will continue to bend, fold or mutilate it as I see fit.
Reason
Reason
How many have the guts to exercise their constitutionally guaranteed rights right here in the USA? What’s your point? It’s best to just come right out with it.
Reason
A belief is not responsible for the people that hold it?
If you trash the bible or throw it away, few will know of your opposition. I say lay the offensive thing outside your door, so that all who pass by not only know of your rejection of religion, but some of your courage to go against the grain may rub off on them.
Or they’ll burn you door down and lynch you.
Oh come on people, the law is very clear:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_(law)
Once the gift is transferred to the grantee, legal ownership is transferred as well. Taking Bibles out of hotels is theft. There is no way around that. If you want to take the Bibles, just ask at the hotel desk, I’d bet most of them would let you have it.
The argument that the Gideon Bible is OK to take because the Gideons want you to have one would not hold up in court. Once legal ownership has passed from the Gideons to the hotel, the Gideons wishes are no longer relevant.
Remember the book Steal This Book? It certainly isn’t legal to take that one without consent of the bookstore or library either.
I’m all for criticizing religion, but I can’t stand back and let you folks commit misdemeanors without realizing it. Sure, stealing Bibles out of hotels isn’t going to hurt the hotel (and probably won’t put much of a dent in the Gideons bank accounts either), but it’s still illegal.
I spoke a bit too quickly, but my older post still stands. I need to add this, however:
If the Gideons specifically say that their Bibles are not legal gifts to the hotel then it’s ok to take them.
In that case, the Bibles are the legal property of the Gideons and the hotel is merely holding the Bibles, as such, the Gideon’s wishes that the Bibles be freely taken should be considered acceptable.
At this point, we need to know more about how the hotels have come to possess the Bibles. In the absence of a statement like “this is not a legal gift”, I assume-I’m no lawyer-that legally the ownership of the Bibles would be with the hotel. However, it could be different from hotel to hotel depending on the circumstances. The only safe assumption is that it is illegal to take them from hotel rooms without the hotel’s consent.
Alatham
If LarryGeater is correct then the gift is to the room occupant not the hotel. If this gift stays in the hotel for a certain amount of time then the hotel could possibly choose to take ownership under the law. But I think they would need to establish that they have made that choice. This would be especially the case if the Giddies have an agreement with the hotel which states that the hotel will simply allow them Giddies to distribute their “gift” to patrons and in no way implies hotel ownership. This would appear to be what the agreement is since as Larry has stated the Giddy Buybulls do encourage you to take them with you if you like.
Again, it would be nice to have a legal scholar weigh-in and, more importantly, obtain some case law on the matter.
Bend, fold, mutilate, kick to the curb.
I think that bibles and hotels were both in the United States when it became the United States.
What,
I’m only the son of a lawyer, so my analysis has a good chance of being at least partly flawed, but I feel that I’m reading this law correctly.
This is not how the law is spelled out. Once the Gideons give the Bibles to the hotels and the hotels accept them, ownership transfers immediately. At that point, the opinion of the Gideons about whether or not you can take them becomes irrelevant.
If I were to legally obtain a Gideon Bible you couldn’t take it from me unless I gave you permission, regardless of what the Gideons have to say about it. In normal cases, it’s no different with a hotel.
However:
I agree here. This would constitute a special case and the hotel could not claim ownership of the Bibles. Ownership remains with the Gideons and their position is that anyone can take them (though their website is vague on this). But I’m not certain that just putting a message inside the Bibles would lead to this special case. I think it’s beholden on anyone wishing to take a Bible that they ask the hotel if this special case exists.
Where’s that Rusty character? Somebody get him on the phone.
Alatham
If the hotel knows of the “message” and agrees to allow the Giddies to put them in rooms with said message then the hotel is stating that they claim no property right. If the hotel has not agreed then the buybulls would become discarded items of previous tenets. I do not think the reasonable person (in the abstract legal sense) is obligated to exercise any care in the handling of items willfully discarded.
Bend, fold, mutilate, kick to the curb, then recycle.
I doubt any hotel chain is calling up the Gideons asking for a few dozen more. Those bibles like any piece of religious literature laid about are public domain and have no legal status. Those Gideon bibles in that top drawer next to my pillow is a childish desire to enter my dreams. That offends me, that represents mild insanity. You Christians have to imagine what it would be like to find a Koran in your room after driving down the highway looking at billboards of Islamic text and listening to references to Allah on the radio. It is the invasive nature of all organized religion which necessitates its demise. Keep your religion in your churches where it will die and be buried. The bible is not moral, there is nothing positive in the bad book. The hucksters pushing the bad book give you guilt, fear and sorrow only so they can then sell you salvation. The pope is a sleazy pimp in a silly costume.
thx1138 That’s not what I’ve heard from hotels after I’ve asked them about their Bibles. They all said the same thing: It’s like toilet paper. It’s there for the use, and if it’s not there when you leave, that’s okay, it was there for the use, and you used it. So okay.
I’ve disposed of dozens of hotel Bibles, and never once has anyone at any hotel ever complained or even mentioned it.
The Bible is like toilet paper, legally. I like that.
Joe Zamecki
Austin
reason – You asked: “how many of you have the guts to go and trash a koran in a majority muslim nation or a torah in israel.”
I have the guts, just not the money. Of course those other holy books were never forced on me. Only the Bible.
It strikes me as bizarre and laughable that a Bible would be considered sacred to anyone. Not just because I’ve read it, but also because it’s still forced on innocent people.
It’s ironic that some Freethinkers would never want us to burn Bibles by the hundreds, knowing that’s exactly what so many Christians have done to legitimate books. The difference ought to be that we actually read the Bible, and most Bible pushers simply don’t.
For the good of the future of humanity, all Bibles should be burned, and forgotten forever.
Joe Zamecki
Austin
Bend, fold, mutilate, kick to the curb, recycle, then wipe.
It seems to me that the Bible is not being forced on to you when you are in a hotel. I have never heard of anyone being forced to read the Bible when they check in. Hotels/motels are private businesses and are fully entitled to have any thing that is legal displayed. I am personally offended that certain programming are available on the T.V set. The deal is this, I don’t throw away the T.V. set when I enter the room. I, instead ask the Hotel to block all access to all channels that may offend me. If the Bible offends you so much, simply ask the someone to remove the bible when you make a reservation, or check in.
You know, Jesus Lover makes a damn good suggestion: requesting the bible be removed from my room when I make a reservation. Make them take it out for me.
I kinda really like that idea.
Some of you have some serious issues. A book sitting on a table is not being forced on you…it is AVAILABLE for you. If the housekeeper comes in and reads it to you without your request, or if there is a P.A. speaker above your bed reciting verses throughout the night, THAT would be being forced on you. It being in your presence is not it being forced on you
uoflcard
What!? Not being forced on me? It was forced into my room for which I am paying 200 bucks a night!
They Giddies say it’s a gift. So I will do what I want with my gift. Thank you very much.
JeebusLover
The Buybulls are not like hotel TV sets. They are gifts to us from the Giddies. If you freaks start passing out free TVs just let me know where I can pick a couple up. I would like to trash of few of those too.
uoflcard
If you leased a car and found that the giddies left a buybull in it would you feel obligated to leave it in the car?
What-
Your right, it is a gift. Do with it , whatever you want. It seems to me your complaint should be focused on the hotels, not the Gidians. as far as I know, the Gidians don’t force the Bibles on the hotels. They’re just marketing their “product”. Just call it a free sample! There are alot of things that are pushed or given to us that we may not like. It is what it is.
I wonder… Joe’s comparison of the bible to toilet paper got me thinking: Would a business be able to sustain itself recycling bibles donated to them by hotel patrons (the same way the Gideons donated the bibles to the patrons) into toilet paper?
Could said toilet paper be made cheap enough to sell for use on a regular basis?
An enterprising atheist might make a pretty penny collecting these giddy buybulls at drop-off locations and recycling them into toilet paper. The promotional ads could be hilarious.
joe and what
i don’t doubt you two have the guts to trash a koran in mecca but that would not be any more right than trashing a bible that is not yours.the issue here is property rights no more or less.taking or destroying state property in soviet union was a crime were soviets bad atheists of course not.public or private we must respect property rights.
Reason
I doubt you have the guts to exercise your constitutionally guaranteed rights right here in the USA. So who is the bigger wuss?
The buybulls are gifts to the hotel patrons. The property is mine once I take possession.
Got it? This isn’t Quantum Field Theory
What
the bible in your hotel room is not a gift.as for being a wuss i didn’t call you or joe one and could care less if you call me one.if you can’t see that this society is full of bigmouth spoiled brats then you are blind.
We call them republicans.
tear out a few pages. use them for toilet paper. then put them back.
If you find religious material in your room, simply put it out in the hall just like you would do with a used room-service tray.
That way, it’s perfectly clear that you don’t want it in your room. Other non-religious people who see it will know what they can do with theirs, too. I think this simple measure would suffice if it caught on.
Hotel cleaning staff probably won’t want to store bibles and cart them around. When replacing the bibles becomes too much trouble, they’ll be given away or thrown out.
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