from the acting presidentAmerican Atheists in the FutureFrank R. ZindlerJust several weeks after I became Acting President of American Atheists, I discovered that the roof on the American Atheists Center in Cranford, New Jersey had been leaking for some time and water had already done considerable damage to books and other materials in our stock room. Worse yet, there were indications that the part of the roof covering the Charles E. Stevens American Atheist Library & Archives (C.E.S.A.A.L.A.) was also failing and that the special climate-controlled, fire suppression-protected rooms housing the rarest materials were in grave danger. As American Atheists officers and staff were in the very act of hiring a contractor to replace the roof, a heavy rainstorm penetrated the ceiling of the library itself, bringing down some ceiling tiles. Fortunately, prescient staff at the Center had covered the ranks of books with enormous sheets of plastic film and no serious damage was done. At the moment that I am writing this, the repair of the roof is nearly complete. The precious books, memoirs, publications, and ephemera that illuminate the path that reason has laid down over the centuries are safe ? at least from the elements. However, we will have to dip into our normally sacrosanct trust fund in order to pay the roofers the $77 thousand they will demand. Unless we can replace that money quickly, our financial future will be seriously insecure. We depend upon the earnings of the trust fund to support many if not most of the day-to-day operating expenses of the Center. Even a small reduction in that income will seriously impact our ability to function ? to do the things you need and want us to do. I ask everyone who can help to do so. Please add something extra to your normal contribution and indicate it is for the roof. With your permission, we will publish your name in an honor roll in the next few issues of American Atheist. Although the deadline for submitting applications for the position of president of American Atheists, Inc. is August 24, 2008, several absolutely excellent candidates have already applied. I can guarantee that if any one of them is chosen to be my successor in this office the future of American Atheists is more than secure ? it glows with promise. I am predicting a flowering of Atheism such as our nation has never witnessed throughout all of its history. The new president will be able to lead an organization that is less cumbersome and more efficient as a result of important projects now in full swing. Most notably, four affiliated American Atheists corporations (including C.E.S.A.A.L.A.) are being merged into the flag-ship corporation American Atheists, Inc. The reorganization will be transparent to members, but it will enormously reduce the numbers of headaches our new president will have to suffer in the line of duty. A complete overhaul of our financial procedures and an integrated computer database will save endless hours of needless effort for my successor ? hours that can better be spent representing Atheism in the world at large. American Atheists has always aspired to be a full-service organization for its members and for the cause of reason, separation of government and religion, and Atheist civil liberties. For many and good reasons, we have not always been able to deliver everything we wanted to. With your help, however, our new president will be able to depend upon a Web-site that will be state-of-the-art, a cable TV program Atheist Viewpoint that will be fully professional in its production, and a monthly journal that everyone will be proud of. My successor will, of course, continue with vigor to prosecute law suits in defense of the rights of Atheists and to maintain the wall of separation between state and church. In addition to all these things, however, the new president will preside over a fully functioning research library, where authorized scholars will be able to study the history of reason and the monuments left along the path leading to American Atheism. For too long this story has been suppressed, obfuscated, or simply consigned to oblivion. My successor will direct an expanded American Atheist Press, one that will not only be able to publish more new titles such as David Eller?s Atheism Advanced or Ren? Salm?s The Myth of Nazareth, but also finally catch up in the reprinting of Atheist classics that are perennially in demand. An educational outreach will be implemented with the aid of AAP publications. Finally, our new president will be able to depend upon the aid of a host of affiliated organizations ? organizations that in turn will look to American Atheists not only for inspiration and leadership but also for help of a more practical sort. For the future of American Atheists, the sky?s the limit. Assuming, of course, that the cost of the new roof doesn?t prevent lift-off!http://www.atheists.org/cgi-bin/membership
Did anybody else notice that atomictesting’s tirade
is the same kind of rhetoric the fundies use against people who don’t share their certainty in their dogmas?
Atomic, who died and made you the dictator of “the rules of language?
Yes, sadly, all politicians know that image is more important than substance. With some audiences, you have to talk stupid to sound intelligent. But the posters on this blog ought not to be that kind of audience. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard of intelligence.
There is only one objective rule for proper usage, and that is comprehension. When some nitpicker “corrects” your grammar without first having to ask what you meant, they tacitly admit that no correction was called for.
Speaking of which:
WTF does that mean?? Were you trying to say “borne by” or “born of”? And either way, what does your grammatical fundamentalism have to do with either steganography or xenophobia?
Back on topic:
The Murray-O’Hairs had a drenched-book disaster in Austin. And now we’ve got another in NJ.
What is it with AA and leaky roofs?
I think this might be my first post to the blog. Hi Dave!
I think everyone should capitalize the word Atheist as they choose, or not.
I find myself frowning when people take AA-organizational blog posts and change the subject.
I knew there were some structural issues at the Center, but didn’t know they were so bad. I hope the damage to archival documents isn’t too bad.
If you don’t live in New Jersey, then you probably don’t really know how much a new roof for the Center would cost (hint: it ain’t cheap).
Just as employment issues between Ellen and AA are none of AA members’ business, really, and discussion of those confidential issues could expose AA to possible legal action (and I therefore suggest AA stop using their website and this blog to try to resolve those issues with Ellen and others and use the legal and professional means available to them instead), potential candidates for the position of President should also not be disclosed outside the confines of those AA board members and staff tasked with the hiring process.
My membership in AA does not give me the right to interfere or insinuate myself into AA staff decisions. Like it or not, AA is not a democratically-run organization. AA is not required, and really should not, discuss personnel issues with the membership. It’s a violation of AA’s obligation to maintain staff privacy.
Which reminds me, this blog entry was about Frank asking us, members and supporters, to help the organization in this time of crisis. Either decide you want to support AA and help the organization move forward, or decide you don’t want to support AA, and find yourself a different organization that does everything just the way you think it should. Good luck with that.
Frank, Dave, my membership renewal and a little extra for the roof is one the way thru the tubes of the internets.
Best regards,
Lisa Ridge
NotSoFast,
Do you really want me to answer the leaking roof question?
I am very glad to hear that the roof has been fixed. However, the way Frank Zindler presents it is deceptive. Frank did not “discover” the leaky roof. Ellen Johnson was fully aware of the seriousness of the problem and was certainly not keeping it secret from the board. It was very high on her list of priorities, but there simply wasn’t enough money to accomplish it.
Frank (and Dick Hogan) are acting as if they have accomplished something that Ellen could not. In a way, they have. In their current zest for discrediting Ellen, the board almost certainly would have attacked her if SHE had even SUGGESTED taking $77,000 out of the trust fund to fix the roof.
On the other hand, THEY can do whatever they want. The board has criticized Ellen for making decisions without consulting the rest of the board. Did Dick Hogan consult the board before taking this huge sum of money out of the trust fund? Let’s hope that he did. Otherwise, this represents a serious double standard.
Many times, Ellen asked the other board members to help with fundraising efforts. She never got any help. If she had, perhaps the roof would have been fixed long ago.
In this letter and others, Frank brags about all of the things that the current staff is accomplishing at the American Atheist Center. The obvious implication is that these things could not have been accomplished with Ellen Johnson as president. First of all, none of us can be certain what has actually been accomplished and what is just bragging about things they INTEND to do.
Secondly, there is the issue of the new “Director of Operations,” Conrad Goeringer. He has been collecting a salary (comparable to Ellen’s) for many years. Over the last couple of years, Ellen had been putting increasing pressure on him to come to the Atheist Center to help her with various tasks that required his physical presence. He always refused. During the time that I worked at the Atheist Center (about 16 months), I never saw him once.
Now, Conrad has been forced to become the “Director of Operations.” He is at the Atheist Center on a regular basis (daily?). It is unclear what work he is actually doing. If he is doing so much important work at the Atheist Center, why couldn’t he have done this work while Ellen was president? He was certainly being paid enough. Ellen communicated very clearly what she needed him to do.
Why was Conrad only able to do his job AFTER Ellen’s dismissal?
Why has the board been so unwilling to take responsibility for fundraising efforts? Will they suddenly become interested, now that they have raided the trust fund?
Dick Hogan, Frank Zindler, Conrad Goeringer (and others) need to resign from the board. Their recent misdeeds outweigh any good work they have contributed to American Atheists in the past. They are a disgrace. Frank makes numerous references to all of the grand things that his successor will do. I find that very disingenuous. I still say that the unjustified dismissal of Ellen Johnson was an extremely irresponsible act. Moreover, even if her dismissal had been justified, it still would have been irresponsible to fire her without FIRST finding a replacement. As with everything else these guys say, we have no way of knowing if they really have any good candidates.
Frank: I see that you are no longer making allegations about missing diaries. I?m glad that you realized your mistake. Now, you need to issue a public apology.
Dave: Are you going to block my access to the blog (and delete my account) again? You’ve done it twice already. If you guys aren’t doing anything wrong, why are you so afraid to let me post on the blog?
Arthur Brenner
brenner7@stny.rr.com
I see many of you know as much about “christian rock” as you pretend to know about the bible…
OK “What do I know”…
What christian bands are you familiar with…?
Sir Frank…you can chime in with your vast knowledge also…
Hi Lisa, Thanks for joining in!
She’s right, we won’t be releasing the names of applicants — But I’ve seen them, and the pickins are excellent.
The American Atheist Center is a pretty big building and houses the Library. If you’d like, you can come to see it (and our new roof) at the open house in December.
I am not sure what all of this means.
What is certain is, the board had the power to fix this roof problem, a long time ago. Wouldn’t it have been to their credit to have shown they would work with the previous president?
It doesn’t show that any future one will have any more luck at moving them forward, because their history discredits them.
Dog, The president runs the center and the operations. The board sets the direction of the company, the president runs the show. The board has little input in the day-to-day operations.
I know it’s tough to sort out. We’re still sorting things out too. Just remember your sources. I urge you all to come to the next convention, which we will be announcing soon (hint: really really good donuts) and meet the people who will take this movement forward with gusto.
Arthur, even if Johnson was an effective president (which I am in no way convinced of), what reasoning can you put forth that justifies why she (or anyone else) should get to be president-for-life? 10+ years is plenty long enough for one president to head up any organization and if the board is smart, they will set term limits for the next president. Having long-term presidents without term limits sets the stage for stagnation and lack of vision and I think there’s more than enough evidence to indicate AA was stagnating under the last few years of Johnson’s leadership. The last convention I attended before leaving AA was nothing but a Madalyn O’Hair love-fest and had NOTHING to do with modern activism. Under Johnson, it would have been just more of the same, year after year.
Chet
Dave
Ahhhh! This must be part of that transparency Frank spoke of.
Lisa
Your not going to persuade anybody here with the shut-up-and-go-along angle – except the xian trolls.
After my co-worker asked me to give her my thoughts on xian rock I asked for her to get back to me in five minutes. She did and this is what I said to the lunch group.
“Rock is a hard and edgy music. Christian rock uses rock as a template and then files off all the hard edges so that thin-skinned Christians don’t get hurt.”
as a member i am glad the roof issue will be addressed.i see no need for us to keep pointing fingers at each other there are more important issues facing us an the world.
i do 2nd the notion that term limits for president an board are useful to prevent burnout and to allowed for a controlled venting on personal disagreements.regarding terms limits i suggest you be able to serve as many as you get elected too.also what about 6 yr terms with board members serving staggered terms so every 2 yrs someone is up for election.
LisaR – I agree. It’s time to move on, regardless of our wounds.
We should all remember that in New Jersey, flat roofs have to be really really strong, because for at least a month each winter, that roof is going to be covered by a few feet of snow and ice. Sometimes for months at a time. So it’s not a simple roofing job. It’s not a small building. This is important, and we need to get this done, and move on.
LisaR, I’m glad you’re sending in your membership dues with a donation for the roof job. AA is still a very worthy investment, in that respect. We DO have a bright future.
Kudos to the AA Center staff!
Joe Zamecki
Austin
Chet,
It’s not that simple. I never said that Ellen Johnson should have been president for life, but the board’s ill-advised and impulsive dismissal of her will almost certainly be a huge setback for American Atheists.
Ellen was not perfect but she was very dedicated to her job. Losing her means losing 13 years of valuable experience and losing an established public representative. With her gone, the atheist perspective will be heard much less in the news media.
If you want to know Ellen’s value to American Atheists, just look at the job advertisements on the website. The board is advertising for both a president AND a magazine editor. In fact, they are also wanting to hire a “Director of Operations” (the position that Conrad Goeringer is filling temporarily and reluctantly). In other words, their plan is to hire THREE PEOPLE to do what Ellen did on her own.
Ellen had vision. What she didn’t have was support. The takeover by Frank, Dick, and Conrad does not bring any new vision to American Atheists. Frank has occasionally tried to list his goals for the organization. Unfortunately, the goals he describes are usually rather vague (or they are goals that Ellen and the rest of us were already working on). They have nothing new. They have no vision.
Their only excuse for this lack of vision seems to be that they are searching for three new visionary people to replace Ellen. Frank claims to have “several absolutely excellent candidates.” We are supposed to take his word for it.
That is simply unacceptable. Firing an experienced and dedicated president was not going to improve American Atheists unless they had an even better replacement AND a plan that would allow for an organized and civilized transition.
Let’s not forget that the firing of Ellen Johnson was impulsive and NOT planned out. It was a coup. It represents a tremendous LACK of vision.
Also, don’t forget that the board has reneged on their promise to provide Ellen with a severance package. Not only have they seriously damaged American Atheists, they have also done damage to Ellen. She poured her whole life into American Atheists. Not only has the board taken away the career that she loved, they have left her in a position where her future job prospects are seriously limited. They are completely oblivious to the fact that being president of American Atheists for 13 years is a career path to nowhere. Their impulsive decision to fire her was mindless and heartless.
I just don’t see it that way. American Atheists is stagnating under Frank, Dick, and Conrad. They are spending all of their energy looking for big (and easy) projects (like the roof repair) that will make it look like they are doing something. Ellen’s accomplishments were the result of hard work, not big spending. She saved money by combining the newsletter and the magazine. When she took over editing of the magazine from Frank in April 2006, she made the magazine much more lively and relevant to the average atheist. She has been doing an excellent job of planning conventions that will give attendees the kind of activities they want. This year’s convention was a huge success and Ellen deserves a tremendous amount of credit for her hard work that led to that success.
Dick Hogan, Frank Zindler, and Conrad Goeringer should immediately resign from the board of directors. They are a disgrace to the organization.
Dave Silverman should also resign from the board. He has been an unquestioning mouthpiece for Frank and Dick. The word “toady” comes to mind.
It is NOT time to “move on” and accept this takeover of American Atheists. It is time for Frank, Dick, Conrad, and Dave to move on.
A.r.t.h.u.r B.r.e.n.n.e.r (Dave has made my name a “disallowed term” on the blog. I’m sorry, but that’s just WEIRD!)
brenner7@stny.rr.com
Arthur, you keep saying that you are “banned” from the board and yet I keep seeing your posts all over this board. Your claim of censorship lacks credibility.
And I don’t know Conrad, Frank, or Dick and what I know of Dave comes from this board and his TV appearances, but Dave doesn’t seem to be a “toady” to me. Dave is out there as a public activist, working on the TV show and making public appearances and such whereas I don’t see you out there doing anything but post to this board. When you’re out there publically doing as much as Dave for the atheist cause, then maybe you will have the standing to make demands, but for now, you are just a keyboard commando with a grudge and I’m not buying into your claims.
You may have other people on this board convinced you are in-the-know but I’m not convinced you aren’t anything other than a disgruntled low-level employee who’s pissed about getting canned when the leadership changed. And if Ellen Johnson can’t earn a living now because she was relying on living off AA for the rest of her life, then that’s her own doing. If she had just had the sense to step down after a reasonable term, she wouldn’t be in the situation she is now.
Chet
Art-hur-Bren-ner wrote:
I do wonder if the membership really thinks the library is a high priority.
An archive where these books and papers are stored for safe keeping? Yes, that makes sense. But a lending library where a few atheist hobbiests can research books and articles that almost no one reads? If I was going to be a member of AA after the end of this month, I wouldn’t consider that the best use of limited resources.
…
WTF? I was blocked from post this message until I mangled Arthur’s name. You guys at AA have really lost it (assuming you ever had it). Grow up already.
I agree with most of what Art-hur Bren-ner had to say in his last post. Some of you may say that “What is done is done”. I say that “What is done will be done again.” The boards action against Ellen was deplorable and has damaged AA terribly. What confidence could they possibly inspire in present and former members? The best thing to do would be to fire the board and give members a democratic voice in AA.
Dave
Grow up! Blocking posts with Arthur’s name in it is juvenile. More confidence inspiring behavior?
I love Frank Zindler’s brand of transparency.
http://symbiotry.com/img/ngb-ab.jpg
Odd. Arthur is blocked; phreedm is not.
What is it Dave, do you want to give the illusion that all is well in AA Land? We know we have warts. What more can Arthur say, anyway? I think most folks here will take his words with a grain of salt.
As to the list of job candidates, I agree that there is no need to make them public. We should respect the privacy of the candidates themselves. Unfortunately, we have to trust the Board to pick the best candidate. At this juncture, giving the Board my trust is a difficult task.
I don’t know why Frank offers up a “Save the Books!” tale of woe to justify the new roof. From what I recall reading, the roof has been in need of repair for years. An intact roof is critical to the integrity of a building. It should have been fixed long ago.
Haven’t made up my mind yet on sending donations. Money’s real tight right now. Tight-tight.
Karen:
True, though I tend to agree with most of his opinions.
The really fascinating parts of Arthur’s posts have been the memos and draft resolutions which are the words of (some of) the board members. Since no board members have come in and refuted their authenticity (and they’ve had ample time to do that), I’m assuming those memos are real.
To me the most fascinating point is that the board was aware that Ellen planned to (or at least threatened to) resign if the board didn’t back the freedom walk. So why on earth did they fire her during the walk? Why not wait until she was done and see if she resigned or not? I admit I’m biased but I can’t think of any reasons that reflect positively on the board.
Arthur wrote:
I think Ellen deserves a decent severance package, and AA should just pay it because it’s the right thing to do. If there’s proof that the board promised her a severance package, and they fired her a couple weeks prior to the time she was going to resign – they may be paying for the severance package, legal fees and punative damages before it’s all over.
Chet,
I originally registered on the blog as “Art.hur Brenner.” Dave deleted that account. Then, I registered for a second account as “Art.hur_Brenner.” Dave deleted that account. I guess he has decided not to delete my third account, “Art.hurBrenner.” Dave could stop me from creating new accounts, but only by screening all new accounts. He obviously doesn’t want to work that hard.
Dave and/or Ed Gauci also set up a redirect (based on my IP address). Every time I tried to go to the NoGodBlog website, the National Enquirer website would come up on my screen instead. I’m sure they thought they were being really clever. The ironic thing is that Frank’s post about Ellen and the diaries was much more appropriate for the National Enquirer than anything I have ever posted.
So, I found a way to change my IP address and posted another message on the blog. They responded by redirecting my new IP address (also to National Enquirer). So, I just started using free proxy server websites to access the blog and post more messages.
For further evidence of censorship, please check out my message about the board’s Forgiveness Resolution:
http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/index.php/2008/06/28/an_open_letter_to_ellen_johnson#c91630
I posted this message. Then, Dave deleted it in its entirety. Before he could delete my account, I posted the message again. That’s why there is a message ABOVE mine that refers to my message. The fact that it says “Visitor” next to my message (instead of “Member”) is evidence that the account used to post that message was eventually deleted.
Then, of course, there was the “disallowed term” silliness.
Do you still think that my claim of censorship lacks credibility?
Art.hur Brenner
brenner7@stny.rr.com
Oops!
Let’s try putting that link on two lines:
http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/index.php/2008
/06/28/an_open_letter_to_ellen_johnson#c91630
Art.hur Brenner
brenner7@stny.rr.com
In yesterday’s message, I wrote:
Ellen says:
Art.hur Brenner
brenner7@stny.rr.com
fixing the roof is more important than walking the backroads of dixie.
i wish Ellen well she gave alot to AA but it is not realistic to think she is going to be president again.so yes it is time to move on.
Karen, Not at all that complicated here. Arthur is a troll all the time. Phreedm is a Christian all the time, and troll sometimes. Phreedm has been warned, but has behaved and therefore not blocked.
Others have been blocked, more will be blocked. I reserve that right. I always have. I’ve not deleted his posts unless they contain sensitive information, which they rarely have since Arthur had no real access to anything as a part-time employee for a year or so.
But have it your way! I’ve released the ban on Arthur Brenner. I’d rather not get in a pissing fight with a skunk. Not worth my time. Enjoy the rants. Just don’t complain to me when you get tired of them.
As for me, Arthur, I’m sorry you’re so angry, but please get over it. You should try to make yourself a positive force for the cause, not a negative one.
If you choose to hate me, again, get in line. You and Chad and Larry can make a “We hate Dave” club. Hold meetings about me without me. Have punch and pie. Throw darts at my picture. Enjoy.
OR you can try to be constructive, truthful, and honest about yourself and your intentions, and whether those intentions will every really happen. And you can move on.
BUT I do ask one thing: Let Ellen speak on her own. She’s always been invited. I’ve asked her to comment. But mini realys from her former part-time office guy are not exactly trustworthy. We have no idea if they come from her or if you are just MAKING IT UP. Are you still even in communications with Ellen? How do we know?
She knows her logon and password. If she doesn’t I’ll resend them to her on request. Let’s hear what she has to say — from HER ID. Otherwise it’s just high-school.
Oh and for the record, I hear you loud and clear RE: presidential terms.
There are a few things I?d like to say.
On the subject of the roof.
It?s been leaking for years and needed to be replaced. I was on the roof myself years ago and saw that first hand. Over the last winter I?ve replaced numerous interior ceiling tiles that collapsed from water damage. Everyone knew that the entire roof needed to be replaced. What was probably a surprise was the damaged inventory in the stock room. That inventory was lost. Another surprise was the sticker shock from the price of the roof repair. Things aren?t cheap in Jersey. Or most other cities for that matter.
It?s not Ellen?s fault the roof was not fully repaired during her tenure. She hired several contractors to perform isolated repairs over the years and they fixed some of the leaks. But new leaks would just occur afterword’s. Some of the same leaks would occur several times. The condition of the roof was such that the entire roof needed to be replaced. A complete roof repair for this large building was a complicated job and Ellen needed some help with arranging that. It was on the to-do list.
On the subject of the three people needed to perform Ellen?s old job.
Ellen explained many times to many people how many different hats she put on. From cleaning the toilets to appearing on media to having the building repaired to editing the magazine to arranging every aspect of the conventions to trying to run the office to paying the bills. Everyone knows this and has heard that several times from Ellen herself.
There was just too much to do. It was apparent to many people that Ellen could not cover all those bases. This is not to say that Ellen was not trying. She worked harder than anyone I?ve seen in this movement. She was dedicated to a point that sets the standard. No one would have worked as hard as she did. No one could have. But when you have too many pots on the stove, something always gets burned.
The conventions were a priority as was the magazine. In my opinion, Ellen?s performance with both of those areas was outstanding. Especially the last convention. Ellen was very good at media appearances. In my opinion she represented American Atheists viewpoint on the issues very well. The GAMOW was the best Atheist event I?ve seen yet and that was mostly Ellen?s doing.
But anyone in Ellen?s situation would have had problems doing everything she did. If there was one thing I would have done differently if I were in Ellen?s position is delegate much more. Ellen tried to do too much and couldn?t keep up with everything. Ellen could do most of it some of the time, and some of it most of the time, but she couldn?t do all of it all the time. The details of what was not prioritized isn?t pertinent. What is pertinent is that realistically, it takes two to three people to be able to do what Ellen tried to do herself.
To this end, the board is seeking to hire two or more people to perform everything that Ellen attempted to do.
On the subject of the relationship between Ellen and the board.
Well you can pretty much read that for yourself in Frank?s posts. Ellen does not post on this blog or any other so no one will see what she actually has to say. I won?t repeat any details of what I know but I will say the entire exchange is mutual between Ellen and certain board members. To summarize, both sides are dug into their positions and neither side is budging. Both sides are equally to blame and until they start acting like adults nothing will change with the current relationship.
There is very little or no meaningful communication between the two sides. Just finger pointing and accusations. Each side feels the other side is completely wrong and they are completely right. That?s pretty much the current atmosphere. I certainly hope that changes. Ellen is very important for this movement and her participation (in whatever capacity) will only help American Atheists.
It would take one or both sides of this dispute to make concessions and admit fault to start to make and headway in resolving this. That?s just to start that ball rolling. Both sides will have to apologize and admit their mistakes in order for the situation to be fully resolved. Until that happens, don?t expect to see Ellen back at American Atheists.
Even if Ellen does come back, it will be in a different capacity. For one thing, Ellen won?t be task saturated like she was. Other people will be performing a good part of what she was trying to do. So whatever it is she does in the future, she?ll have time to do it.
Steve Jobs came back to Apple Computer after being voted off the board of the company he founded. It took about ten years for him to come back but look where Apple is today. I hope Ellen can be back sooner, but a lot of that is up to her.
On the subject of this blog.
Dave, I think it?s a mistake for you to block certain names from being mentioned. The same goes for other words. There?s so many ways around it there?s really no point in blocking anything.
As far as blocking Art-hur entirely goes, I think Art-hur does more harm to himself then anyone else. At least to those of us who know what is really going on. Art-hur also is indirectly harming Ellen because of the animosity he?s trying to generate towards a few board members. How are things going to get resolved between the two parties by a third party making accusations against one of them? It?s not. And after everything is said, the harm done to those on the board Art-hur refers to is insignificant. They don?t get paid to do this. If they?re voted out, they?ll suffer no financial hardship. But nothing said on this blog will cause them to be voted out anyway so the best thing to do is for everyone to try and work things out. The current board members will be there for awhile and they will make things work. With or without Ellen. They already have.
Art-hur has said several negative things about me but even still, I don?t think he or anyone else should be blocked since this is a public forum.
Frank, you already know how I feel about you posting letters to Ellen on this blog or in any public venue. I?m specifically referring to the ?Open Letter to Ellen Johnson? and also the letter above. I know what you?re trying to do but I also know it won?t work and will only make things worse. Your letters to Ellen do not appear that much different then what Art-hur is doing on this blog to you and the other?s on the board. It looks like a shouting match. In the end, you?re trying to generate animosity toward Ellen. How is that different then what Art-hur is doing here to you? Two wrongs don?t make a right.
Frank, Edwin said it best: ?Don?t get into a pissing match with a skunk.?
I also am dismayed that you had the same letter printed in the magazine. Now the rest of the membership can see this animosity also. I understand why you did this Frank but I think it was a mistake and I hope you realize that at some point.
Resolution won?t happen until both parties stop using this blog and any other public venue to air their arguments. If anything is going to be resolved, it won?t happen on this blog. Resolution will have to happen with both parties talking directly.
Dave, I hope you don?t delete this post. If you think you?re getting an itchy trigger finger I hope you contact me first.
Bart
nope. The post stays. I agree with you and reversed my decision to ban the former part-time short-term office guy.
Ellen should blog here, but she won’t, so it’s her problem. The rest of us should all work on moving forward.
And fixing the roof.
Well written letter, Bart, but don’t hold your breath on Ellen’s return. She should run with GAMPAC, and make it great.
I’m not holding my breath, but it’s not impossible either.