Friends, Hello from Texas! I made a video today about the new Bible classes in Texas public high schools. I used a large boarded-up church as my background. Cost: Priceless. http://youtube.com/watch?v=pEzBytmleag Essentially I’m challenging Atheist and/or state-church separation minded public high school students to take those Bible classes, and bring up our best critiques of the Bible. When they receive no clear or reasonable explanations, when they receive no explanations that don’t leave the Bible looking like a piece of garbage, I’m challenging them to say so. To declare out loud that the Bible is a piece of garbage, and a class on such a book is an utter mistake. (They should use respect, of course.) Then I’m challenging them to make a video about it for Youtube. If they tell me about their video, I’ll review it along with others like it, and make another video about those videos. I wish I had something tangible to give away for participation, but everyone who takes part will probably feel they’ve accomplished something; that being increased communication among the Atheist community about this fairly new state/church issue, and perhaps the enlightenment of a few teachers. Please let me know your comments on this idea. I’ll probably talk this up at the upcoming Texas Freethought Convention: www.texasfreethoughtconvention.com I think this is a good idea, but I need to hear feedback. 
) Thanks! Joe ZameckiTexas State Director, American Atheistswww.atheists.org/txwww.youtube.com/aajoeyjo
Besides, if anyone needs to learn about the Bible, there are churches for just that purpose. These Bible classes imply that there aren’t any churches in Texas. Let’s be realistic here.
Anyone can go to a Christian church in their neighborhood and learn all about the Bible, and even get a free Bible, probably.
Now couple that with the fact that those churches don’t pay taxes, together with the fact that this situation apparently isn’t enough for Christians’ satisfaction. They want to control the public schools, and this is just one way. In Texas last year, four other religious laws were passed, including one that makes all “religious expression” in public schools allowable. The intent of these laws is clear, they want control over YOUR children and mine so every aspect of our lives has to be dependent on them and their bizarre death-focused religion.
In the future when Christianity is extinct, then it might be OK to study it as a piece of fiction, like Greek myths, demonstrating the brutal history of humanity. But as long as the motives of those pushing it are religious, it is completely unacceptable in my eyes.
So long as these bible calsses are elective I think tjhat its a great idea to teach kids about the bible. Once they become familiar with just how silly and violent it is they will start to ask questions. I totally support elective bible studies in public school but would like to see a comprehensive comparative religion course also taught just like in Europe. Knowledge is the key to understanding that all religion is just nonsense unworthy of respect.
Personally,
I wouldn’t want the Bible or other similar scriptures anywhere near public schools. All they want is an opportunity to have the Bible viewed as equal to other historical or scientific literature. I have no doubt that atheists can win rational debates with Xtians; however IMO, winning a debate is not their ultimate goal. IMO, Xtians would love nothing more than an opportunity to defeat logic where it?s conceived; from the CLASSROOM directly into the minds of students, safely behind the walls our public schools system, by teaching their own faith based illogic and irrationale. The Xtian beast, as a movement, is still strong. If they get an inch, they’ll take a mile. We should not under estimate their power by inviting them into a place where they currently have little voice or influence. I?m afraid that if we give them a voice, stage, and an audience they will create enough confusion to take advancements in science and reason back a few decades/centuries.
JMO
As usual, a lot of you just can’t help yourselves… you spout off immediately and reveal your ignorance about Christianity! In particular, there seems to be no lack of willful ignorance concerning the Texas statute and how the Bible is taught in a public school setting.
First and foremost, this isn’t about teaching for OR against the Bible from a spiritual perspective.
Second, anyone who doesn’t acknowledge the value of the Bible from a literary as well as a historical perspective is certainly deficient in other areas of their personal development as well.
Third, people who find it necessary to hold up the Bible and by extension, Christians, for ridicule reveal more about their lack of character than they realize.
Fourth, to say that Christians somehow “control” or want to control public school curriculum is just absurd on its face. Am I the only one here who notices the glaring omission of what’s being taught in public schools today with regards to Islam? My friends, it makes teaching the Bible from a literary standpoint look positively innocuous! GMAF’ng BREAK.
I’ll start taking some of you more seriously when you start being truly serious about the very real peril our nation is in. It’s not from Christianity and I challenge anyone to provide some REAL facts and analysis to back up some of the more silly claims being made here on a daily basis.
atheon,
Your post is a prime example. So what, exactly are you afraid of, hmmmm? Becoming a Christian is VOLUNTARY, ya dope!
Why don’t you cite some examples of what the terrible beast of Christianity is responsible for in today’s world?
Better yet, why don’t you compare the acts of modern day Christians with those of Muslims, who seem to be stuck in the 7th century.
Since you are so worried about Christianity, please compare its tenets with those of Islam, particularly the provisions of Shariah law.
I’m waiting.
Some of you don’t seem to be comfortable with the concept of “the marketplace of ideas” we have in these great United States of America.
All I seem to see posted here are ill-informed diatribes against the mere IDEA of introducing Christian principles in a public setting! Yet, when I call attention to things you folks want to promote that I disagree with all I get is grief.
There’s two sides to every argument, my atheist friends. At least a recognition of this fact would be refreshing!
TEHRAN, Iran ? Eight women and one man convicted of adultery are set to be stoned to death in Iran, activists said Sunday.
Lawyer and women’s rights activist, Shadi Sadr, said the nine were convicted of adultery in separate cases in different Iranian cities.
This is the face if Sharia law. Sharia Law is being introduced in the United States by Muslims who are demanding that they be allowed to practice their own system of “justice” irrespective of our laws!
So where in modern Western jurisprudence, which was founded on Judeo-Christian principles would you find such barbaric practices, hmmmm?
Seems to have gotten quiet all of a sudden…
Tim,
First of all, I’ve never called anyone outside of their name. I’m not a dope, so I don’t appreciate being called one.
My opinions are just that, “opinions”. If you feel like they are irrational, make a rational response. I’m not above admitting being wrong, but the name calling unnecessary.
If you think I’m wrong, present your case for consideration…
Tim,
I really want to understand your aurgument, so clearly state the issues you have with my post and I will address them accordingly.
Thx
Tim,
You asked: Am I the only one here who notices the glaring omission of what’s being taught in public schools today with regards to Islam?
I say: Perhaps you are! Islam is not being taught in any of my son’s schools that I’m aware of…
If i’m wrong, I’m willing to investigate it and discuss if futher with you. I could resort to name calling if that doesn’t work for you.
All,
I haven’t gotten the hang of typing in this little box. Is there any instructions on this blog that describes how to reply to comments or capture someone elses comments within a post?
Any instruction will be appreciated.
atheon,
I was referring to various school districts around the United States.
It may come to your school eventually if you just lay back and ignore it!
atheon,
Mine was but a mild rebuke that was meant to illustrate the lack of clear thinking revealed by your remarks.
It was not hurled with any true malice if it makes you feel any better. Stick around and see the choice names I’m going to be called!
Comment from: DiArtemis
Why not? I thought the purpose of public schools was to educate…
Who else would be better at answering the very questions Joe told his troops to ask…?
Phreed:
What do you think the chances are that a preacher, when asked to teach a public school class about the bible, is going to teach it from a non-spiritual point of view? What does a preacher even have to offer to the course if you discount their spiritual POV?
And how many preachers out there do you suppose are certified to teach english in public schools?
Tim,
I’m will be the first to admit that I do not know everything. That being said, if there is a movement by Muslims to integrate Islams into the school systems, I WILL FIGHT IT.
I can’t fight it if it doesn’t exist. I will be waiting.
If they follow the curriculum and textbook and have the class monitored on ocassion Id say the chances are very good. Education is the only way to show just how nonsensical religion is.
Tim,
Just so you know, I’ve read all 66 Chapters of the Bible from start to finish and I hate it; perhaps not in all parts, but as a whole. IMO, legitimizing the philosophies taught in the Bible will hinder all men/women from reaching a common understanding about the natural world based on a rational interpretation of the rules and laws that govern our universe. Religion compromises the integrity of rational thought, so I believe that it has NO place in the public school system designed to teach reason. I take that back, may in the library under Mysticism.
Case and point:
How will a physics teach explain how Jesus bent/broke the laws of physics by walking on water? Will it be the Physics instructor?s responsibility to explain it or the Christian Professor? To have two opposing views by the teaching authority will hinder learning?good learning, and cause conflict or confusion among students.
Will Professors bring cadavers into the classroom to demonstrate how one can raise people from the dead? Maybe they can teach how to resurrect some long gone pets as well. Remember pet cemetery? or was it spelled Semitary? I can?t remember?
How will the chemistry teacher explain the instant transformation of water into wine? Jesus did it, so it MUST be possible!
Is there such a monster as a pregnant virgin? IF so, why should girls abstain from sex when they can get pregnant without ever having intercourse? That would suck? try teaching that to a 13 yr old girl…
Perhaps we should not be alarmed when our virgin daughters say they are pregnant..and they didn?t DO ANYTHING. We should assume there?s an (ir)rational explanation. God did it! And if God is involved, we must accept it? and not question it.
My point is that religion should NOT be taught in schools! That?s what the church is for?
Tim asked:
“Why don’t you cite some examples of what the terrible beast of Christianity is responsible for in today’s world?”
here’s the biggest example:
George Bush stated that his “God” told him to evade Iraq. nuff said..
Tim said:
Not for the vast majority of Christians, it wasn’t. Their parents were active Chistians. As babies, they started out without any concept of religion. Then they were taken to Sunday School. They were given fun activities that began the insertion of the ideas of one particular sect. For most who came to call themselves Christians, attendance while a child was basically compulsory.
The Jesuits have a motto, based on a quote purported to be from Francis Xavier, “Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man.” Brain washing works. Most of the free thinkers posting here still show the effects of their childhood religious training. I know it tugs at me still, things like the music and the social aspects.
Interesting, isn’t it that churches that have confirmation classes do so around the age of 14, long before the age they are allowed to enter a contract.
I would think that most people that consider themselves to have become a Christian in their adulthood were raised and living in a society where most of their peers were Christian.
So before you go calling people unintelligent, perhaps you should think more carefully, yourself. Your much practised ability to compartmentalize your thoughts is actually sloppy thinking and it shows.
Tim said:
You should know better than to ask:
* Exorcisms that result in death or permanent damage to the victim.
* Christian sects that deny the benefits of modern medicine to their sick and/or dying children.
* Polygamists that deny their children an education.
* Polygamists that ‘marry’ very young girls.
* Priests that sexually abuse children.
* Archbishops that protect the name of the church by moving abusive priests to new parishes and new victims.
* Bringing an incompetent President to power in the US. Katrina, Iraq, etc.
* Blocking access to contraception and protection from STDs in America and Africa.
* Inspiring and abetting the persecution of child ‘witches’ in HIV ravaged Africa.
I’ll stop now. Cue the No True Christian(tm) argument.
And no, mentioning Hitler and Stalin isn’t a point against atheism. Hitler was a Catholic and Stalin did it out of a lust for power, not because he was inspired by atheism.
Comment from Tim:
That is because they believe their text is divinely inspired text. As such, it is true and correct. The xtians simply take the parts they want. If you were to follow the bible as in inerrant text, you would be just as bad.
Take this for example:
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I [Jesus] should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19-27)
Awww, poor wittle Timmy, he dosen’t want to koowaan taught in public school. But the bible is a-okay!!!
That’s “the koowaan”
I think Joe will agree with me but it’s likely to happen. The reason? Times are changing. Last year my local school district had a vote to allow students to have a prayer at graduation. It happened and after being announced the superintendent was told it was Unconstitutional and don’t let it happen again. This year Joe and I both randomly attended a Round Rock school graduation and the valedictorian used some very note-worthy speech that called on reason as a means to solving problems, not once did she ask for a god to intervene. Good work Joe.
It is vitally important that religion be taught in schools. One can’t understand our culture without a basic knowledge of the Bible.
It has to be taught in a Religious Studies class which should cover everything from the Adventists to Zoroaster, including the lunacy of the Bible and the Koran.
Young people ought to have heard the names of ALL the gods including those who were once as important to believers as Yaweh: Vesta, Baal, Melek, Ninib, Ptah, Vaticanus, Dagan, Cerus, Jupiter, Osiris, Cronos, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.
My high school offered a mythology class. I don’t think the abrahamic religions were included. They should have been.
Obeah – So what part of American culture is discussed in the Bible? I fail to see any connection between what’s in the Bible and what’s in America today. Other than the Bible itself.
I think a history of how the Bible has been used and abused is important, to a world history class. But the contents of that book are best left to comparative religions classes or mythology classes, or critical thinking classes.
To teach the contents of the Bible as history is to lie.