Hat tip to Sandefur for catching this. President Bush was at Monticello for a 4th of July celebration and he delivered an address. But it’s quite telling that his speechwriters, in quoting Jefferson, cut out an anti-religious statement from a long and famous quote. Here’s the way Bush put it:
Thomas Jefferson understood that these rights do not belong to Americans alone. They belong to all mankind. And he looked to the day when all people could secure them. On the 50th anniversary of America’s independence, Thomas Jefferson passed away. But before leaving this world, he explained that the principles of the Declaration of Independence were universal. In one of the final letters of his life, he wrote, “May it be to the world, what I believe it will be — to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all — the Signal of arousing men to burst the chains, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government.”Now let’s look at the full quote, including the part that was cut out. This is from a letter he wrote to Roger Weightman reflecting on the upcoming 50th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence (which, it turns out, was the day both he and John Adams died):
May it be to the world, what I believe it will be, (to some parts sooner, to others later, but finally to all,) the signal of arousing men to burst the chains under which monkish ignorance and superstition had persuaded them to bind themselves, and to assume the blessings and security of self-government.Jefferson made many such statements, of course. Clearly they are best edited out by those who advocate nothing if not monkish ignorance and superstition.
Most of xianity is a borrowed rehash of earlier jewish, Egyptian, and Babylonian myths. There is nothing original in it at all. Suck it jesus!
alex,
I saw that article last night and some of the comments those idiots left McDonald’s were absolutely hilarious. Like the one that said something like “you’re gonna cook just like your burgers.”
Justme
Thanks for the link. With so much resurrecting going on maybe the link is between Hinduism and xianity rather than judaism and xianity.
Alex
Wasn’t McEve created from McAdam’s McRib?
Resurrect the McRib!
I want to ask for help from all members. I couldn?t find how to post a new topic so I am commenting on yesterday?s entry. I have been a leader in the Boy Scouts of America at Mission Bend United Methodist Church in Houston Texas for the past 6 years. There was a restructuring of the Boy Scout Troop by Mission Bend United Methodist Church and I decided to move to a new troop. I received a phone call last night from the scout executive at Sam Houston Council informing me that my membership is being revoked for my non-belief in God. I am an atheist and was told my transfer leader application to a different scout troop will not be approved because of my belief. That is even if the application is approved by the new charter organization which is in charge of the new troop. The way Boy Scouts operates usually is the leadership approval of a troop is left up to the charter organization. A charter organization can be any non-profit. They have two responsibilities; approve leadership and provide a safe meeting place. It seems against policy that the Sam Houston Council would revoke my membership or not approve my transfer application. The executive stated that the Boy Scouts of America is a faith based organization and reserves the right to refuse membership to me because I am an atheist. I think this is discrimination and I would say that it takes just as much faith to be an atheist. Neither God nor the nonexistence of a deity can be proven so belief or non-belief both takes faith. It is just more culturally accepted to believe in God instead of nothing. I was informed a letter stating the reasons for revoking my membership is on the way. Without being a member I can no longer participate in the Boy Scout program with my son. I will not be allowed to attend meetings or go camping anymore. I am a single mom and this aversely impacts the quality time I spend with my son. He is not sure is he wants to continue with Boy Scouts after this incident. If he does not feel comfortable continuing, then the Boy Scouts of America should be held responsible for taking away immeasurable opportunities from him. I would like to sue The Boy Scouts of America discriminating against me for being an atheist. If you have a lead on a lawyer willing to take on such a case could you please email me the contact information?
Boy Scouts discriminate against both atheists and gays and you are better off not being ivolved with this hateful organisation. There are plenty of other groups out there that you and your kid can join. Im confused though when you said that you are a single mom as I though only males could be active in the Boy Scouts???
Contact the ACLU and see if they think you have a case.
akantzar
That’s ridiculous. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. So there is no belief and no faith.
I really do not understand why you would want to be part of that organization given it’s track record.
Just in case anyone missed the CNN story on the atheist suing the military…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xZgvkCIZzA
akanatzar
To put it simply….F the Boy Scouts organization…..if your an atheist why would you want to subject your son to an organization that builds little soldiers for jesus….
here’s a wika link that says that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies
akantzar,
The Boy Scouts is a private organization, and they can exclude anyone they want to (and they certainly do). I’m not saying that’s a good thing, but it’s the way it is. You and your son should find some other outlet, like the Boys and Girls Club of America, or some such.
BTW, it doesn’t take “faith” to be an atheist. That’s just stupid.
Boy Scouts are a private organisation but they receive government money and support so maybe there is a case to be made. I dont know enough about them and dont really care. Call the ACLU.
akanatzar,
Take a look at getting involved with Camp Quest:
http://camp-quest.org/
There is not currently a Camp Quest located in TX, but as TX is increasingly becoming an atheist hotspot it won’t be long! Maybe you could be involved in helping them along. Get involved with your local atheist group to make contacts who could help. See atheists.org to find such a group.
As for the BSA, forget them. The religous right has taken full control. The fellowship and fun they offer is just one more thing for an atheist to lose when they come out of the closet. It’s one more discouragement for folks like you, which is exactly how the religious want it to be. I recommend directing your talents and energies into something productive for our community, e.g. Camp Quest.
Dave,
Maybe you should set up a side project blog where all illogical, ad hominem, name-calling etc. posts are “deleted without apology.”
It’s depressing to see fellow atheists being dragged down (and sometimes leading the way!) to these illogical, argument-losing methods. The trolls love it because they don’t have to explain exactly why it is that we should believe their version of god rewards members of a certain culture who have blind faith.
If any of you think mockery changes opinions, can you tell me how many opinions you have changed by calling people morons or idiots?
Wall Street Journal article about Zimbabwe’s central bank governor, who presides over million percent inflation:
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page86?oid=214052&sn=Detail
I’ve been returning to, and leaving, this blog for years– I am so sick of seeing phreedm derail every single post with the troll tactics. It’s really disgusting the way people give in to him. He should be ignored.
Yeah, right. Give up on the BSA. Give up on the military. Don’t like the USA because of its religious leaders, go to another country.
Don’t bother fighting ignorance. Don’t stand up to bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance. Just go find another organization to join, that is until these morons take it over also.
Allow them to take over without fighting and we might as well resign ourselves to the inquisition again.
If you are not strong enough to fight, contact the ACLU. If this had happened in my neighborhood, I would make a total scene and embarrass them totally and show how weak and ignorant they really are.
Stop being cowards and fight these assholes.
Friday Pirate,
I hope you don’t let anyone, troll or otherwise, keep you from this blog. Your advice to ignore these type of people is excellent. I usually just skim over his comments and any comments relating to him. That way I can enjoy the meat of the thread, and spit out the gristle.
I do really love a lot of the great things here. There are some great discussions.
I just wish it didn’t feel like the burden of truth was being discussed every third thread, and citing the bible to prove the bible every second thread. I know that they’re just trolls, and I’m fine ignoring that– but it annoys the piss out of me to see the same people indulging these arguments time and time, and time, again.
Blah blah, gay agenda, blah blah, abortion rights, yadda yadda, Leviticus, so-and-so is a hypocrite, atheists BELIEVE there is no god therefore they subscribe to a belief…
Wow, there’s two screen names I haven’t seen in a while. How you’se dewdz doin’?
jefferson a rebel an traitor to his king and country he didn’t pay his debts.what kind of hypocrite talks of liberty while owning 200 hundred slaves.he was no atheist but a deist who found it useful to remain a active member of a christian church.
Doin, doin.
Used to be elliejay, too, if that rings any bells.
I’ve found that most deists (modern ones, anyway) are essentially agnostics when you quiz them on it long enough. And agnostics are essentially atheists who don’t care enough to deal with being thought of as an atheist.
alex
I used your link about the boycott of McDonald’s to write a post at God Is for Suckers and gave you a hat tip. Thanks for posting about it!
http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/07/09/
no-more-happy-meals-for-jesus-kids/#comments
I also stay away alot because of all the answers to trolls. (I don’t read the ones that I recognize though.)
It is boring to read them and I am really surprised that people keep replying.
How about some deletions without apology?
back to lurk mode…
Should we expect any different from Christian fundies like Bush? It should be no surprise that they pull quotes out of context to suit their particular agenda ? they even do it with their beloved bible.
I find it to be a rather insidious form of manipulation; using cherry-picked information to prey on the conscience of an ignorant public.
Personally, I read this as more than just a tribute to a great founding father but also as a thinly veiled attempt to, again, directly (or indirectly) justify his war in Iraq.
I tend to lurk for similar reasons to the above. Not enough deletion of the preachy crap from you-know-who and his motley crew.
I also lurk because so many believe the only true atheists are ones that are also liberal. Conservative or libertarian atheists are treated as if we’re traitors to the cause. It disgusts me.
I too am a libertarian, sometimes conservative atheist & I know what you mean. Liberals often appear to be more judgemental of others than conservatives. I wonder if True atheists are actually conservatives – i.e., not narrow or closed minded.
Bible thumpers have to take things out of context in order for their tales to make sense. To be honest, I have to feel sorry for them because their world is imploding and they have absolutly nothing but their faith, and the Bible. Neither of which will stand under the light of day. You all know that is true.
Any Christian who wants to lay a few lines out here for inspiration can expect a dose of truth to be handed right back from their bad book. It is malarky, nothing more, nothing less.
I kind of even feel sorry for phreedm. How do we know what his life has been like or for that matter what conditions he is living under right now. Possibly his life is strictly controlled and he only has access to a computer with which he can occasionally vent his rage over unfair imposed isolation. Could be, how do we know?
If phreedm could just send a sign maybe we could pool our resources at this end and spring him. If he could let us know what mental institution he is in and give us a time and a date, maybe blink a flashlight from his window at midnight. I have a ladder and a truck. Anybody up for it? Let’s phree phreedm.
Bible thumpers have to take things out of context in order for their tales to make sense. To be honest, I have to feel sorry for them because their world is imploding and they have absolutly nothing but their faith, and the Bible. Neither of which will stand under the light of day. You all know that is true.
Any Christian who wants to lay a few lines out here for inspiration can expect a dose of truth to be handed right back from their bad book. It is malarky, nothing more, nothing less.
I kind of even feel sorry for phreedm. How do we know what his life has been like or for that matter what conditions he is living under right now. Possibly his life is strictly controlled and he only has access to a computer with which he can occasionally vent his rage over unfair imposed isolation. Could be, how do we know?
If phreedm could just send a sign maybe we could pool our resources at this end and spring him. If he could let us know what mental institution he is in and give us a time and a date, maybe blink a flashlight from his window at midnight. I have a ladder and a truck. Anybody up for it? Let’s phree phreedm.
sure didn’t plan a double post, must be a sign
Rez,
What exactly is a “True atheist?”