The 4th of July is my favorite holiday of the year. No work, good weather, parades, and fireworks. I love it!Unless something special happens I won’t be posting tomorrow, Hence our official Independence Day thread. We’re independent from those crazy Brits, with their official church and rampant Atheism.This always brings up the question which we should always ask ourselves — are we wrong? IS the separation of church and state allowing churches to flourish at the expense of the secular? Would an “official religion” be better for atheists?It may have led to a more secular society if an official religion had been adopted in the founding fathers’ years, given 20/20 hindsight, because we’d be in a situation more like Europe now. Pure speculation, but speculation can be fun. It’s way too late, of course, and we are stuck with a fight. If we lose the fight, the official religion will take over the government, dictate our laws, and interfere with our lives and wallets in every way possible. It’s just funny how the Church of England has nearly no real effect on the British population.Happy 4th. Stand for the National Anthem, but SIT if they play God Bless America. Enjoy the fireworks.
jcc
Do you mean salvation by grace through faith alone? Because as it stands it looks like salvation through grace alone, and through faith alone. That’s two alones.
What’s “sole Priesthood” of Christ?
The authority of scripture-THAT’S where everybody goes really looney tunes. Obviously it is NOT clearly explained at all. The ‘authority’ part might be, but what’s contained within sure isn’t. Y’all need to call another council and decide what the rules really say. Throw out some of that stuff that doesn’t matter any more and do a rewrite. Ask JC to sit in on the meeting. He could at least do a conference call.
Or Fred Phelps?
How do you know they do this? And your answer to the first question leads me to believe that what you think is “clearly explained” is simply you version of “what [you] want to believe.”
So, my honest opinion, when it agrees with you, is fearless and the sign of an opening mind, but when it disagrees with you, is frightening and cold-hearted?
Have they ever mentioned feeling bad about not marrying or having children? (Remember one is reliant on the other!)Perhaps they have no desire for either. Such women do exist you know. They may even be heterosexual! Imagine, heterosexual women, not pining for marriage and children. Before you go on feeling sad for them, you might want to find out if maybe they are perfectly happy with their situations.
Ah, but that’s just it! I DO do it for complete strangers-all the time. In fact, one of my sons worries about me because of this. And someone who’s truly contrite does deserve compassion. I was speaking of those who aren’t. If you go back and reread what I wrote about the jerk, I think you’ll see that.
Oh. Still hard to imagine, considering the relationships I have with my unconditionally loved ones. Something major would have to happen to cause a rift. Even if they wouldn’t talk to me, I’d leave them a note telling them I till loved them and saying goodbye.
That’s pretty much where I thought you were going with that other statement, which is why I asked for clarification. Because I think that’s exactly the kind of idea we would come up with on our own. Look at all the other ideas that are so strikingly similar. This one was just tweaked a bit to appeal to more people and satisfy more needs. I think it’s obvious.
jcc
If Terry Schiavo had been my daughter, I would have done the same thing her husband did. Loving my child unconditionally does not mean letting his or her body continue existing in a vegetative state when his/her mind is no longer functional. When the brain is functionally “dead”, the person is no longer there.
Gotta run. I have an appt.
Yes, why can’t you?
Do you even know what an assumption is? You continually make this sort of statement where your own particular brand of emphasis clouds your judgment. It’s not all your fault though; blogs tend to breed misunderstandings?
You have no idea how stupid this sounds to me, do you?
Obeah
Under what condition(s) would your love for your children cease?
I doubt he does. That’s why it’s okey-dokey for god to kill fetuses, but abortion is murder. Smile; God kills you because he loves you!
Karen, m’love, you’re not only a credit to your species, but a credit to atheists.
I can possibly think of instances (hypothetical – best qualify that!) where a father or mother would lose that familial love. But most of them would be extreme.
I can even come up w/instances where a mom might not even be aware of her offspring’s living – ergo, my extrapolation of proximity being a requirement for that ephemeral critter we call love.
I’m guessing that jcc is conjuring up the shade of Schiavo for 1 of his patented lectures on hemispherectomies. This is 1 of his wild speculations that borders on blatant mendacity – but he always manages to leave out the details.
KA
I can think of such examples for A father or A mother also. I just can’t think of any for myself. In a scenario in which a mother never gets to bond with her child, I can see it. Or if the parent becomes…AHA! It was right there in front of me the whole time and I was too stupid to see it! In fact, it nearly did happen to me. If the parent becomes too mentally unbalanced, he/she may not feel that love anymore. Okay, I concede the point. But I can’t think of anything my kids could do to make me stop loving them. Because we’re not talking hypothetical people here. I’m basing it on who they are and what they’re like, our established relationships, etc. They’d really have to go out of character to do something horrible. And as I said, that would just make me more concerned for them.
Re:Schiavo. I figured jcc was going after the soul angle. But I was in a rush to leave and didn’t go into it.
I think some of you simply have a different definition of unconditional love. To me it is simply the understanding that I have placed no prior conditions on my love for my children. Might a situation arise that would cause me to withhold love for my children? Maybe. I just don’t know what that might be and would not spend much time thinking about such hypotheticals.
karen:
Let me try again: salvation is only possible by the grace of God?that is, it can?t be achieved on our own or through any agent other than God, and only then by His grace?His unmerited favor. How we appropriate that grace is through our faith and faith alone. We can?t appease God or buy His favor (i.e. His grace) by our actions. It is only through a trusting, faithful heart that we can secure our salvation. I hope that helped.
Christ, and Christ alone is the only intermediary necessary for us to be able to come to God; no priests, vicars or Popes; our individual, personal, communion with Christ is sufficient.
It was pretty clear to me when I read it.
Are you saying that he doesn?t have the freedom to hate?
spanders has said as much many times here?to him, the Bible is merely a guide, a collection of well intentioned allegories that we should try to model our lives on?not the Word of God. And the Mormons added an entirely new book that is utterly unsubstantiated, and in many cases contradicted by, both history and archeology, to it.
karen, I neither made those four points up, nor do I merely ?want to believe? them; they?re the Four Great Statements that Luther, and Calvin (among others) concluded about Christianity during the Reformation in the 16th century.
Um, yeah.
Not explicitly, but it doesn?t take a Ph.D. in psychology to pick up on subtle hints during conversations.
Holy mackerel!?what did I possibly say that gave even the slightest hint at what their sexuality was??talk about profiling, presuming, and stereotyping! I sure hope you don?t accuse me or any other conservative of doing such a thing in the future??cause you just gave me all the evidence I need that liberals can be as prejudiced as what they accuse conservatives of being.
karen, they live alone (no partners of any kind?only pets), and have so all their adult lives.
My point was, everyone needs compassion.
And for you to conclude that baffles me because Christianity stands alone on it?s foundation that God is the one reaching out to humanity?not the other way around; and that it?s our minds that need changing about Him?not His about us?for our salvation. No other religion offers that because those concepts aren?t intuitive to us.
But that wasn?t the case; Terri was anything but ?brain dead??she was clearly responsive to others (I saw the videos). Yes, she was severely brain damaged, but she wasn?t brain dead. Her death was an intentional act. Could you accept a court that orders you to stop feeding your child??a child who could still squeeze your hand when you squeezed theirs?
jcc
So does Levitical Law still apply or not? Remember, 10 Commandments! And yes I know, specific laws for the bad boys and girls of the Jewish tribes of the times. But this is definitely one area you folks can’t agree on, so even if it was clear to you, apparently it’s not clear en masse.
What about transubstantiation? Certainly the Protestants and Catholics disagree here. Is that even in the Bible. I can’t remember from my confirmation days.
No one agrees about what hell is either.
And so on. You may consider those questions rhetorical if you like.
Of course not. And in some ways, I can see how he interprets the god of the Bible as hating everyone. The question was, if the scripture is so clear, how can it be interpreted in so dissimilar fashions?
And the Christians deleted how many books that didn’t quite fit the mold or might have been controversial? Plus you have absolutely no idea of who actually wrote it or how they got the information. It contains nothing but what was known at the time. Pretty lame for an omniscient divination. And like I said, it’s as if they made a crude Venn Diagram of existing gods, took the overlap and added features for an upgrade. All they had was their imaginations back then. It really doesn’t stretch mine a bit to think men came up with this idea. Not at all.
Well, Dr. Phil, I defer to your vast psychological experience.
I didn’t say you did say that. I was just heading that implication off at the pass before
jcc
So does Levitical Law still apply or not? Remember, 10 Commandments! And yes I know, specific laws for the bad boys and girls of the Jewish tribes of the times. But this is definitely one area you folks can’t agree on, so even if it was clear to you, apparently it’s not clear en masse.
What about transubstantiation? Certainly the Protestants and Catholics disagree here. Is that even in the Bible. I can’t remember from my confirmation days.
No one agrees about what hell is either.
And so on. You may consider those questions rhetorical if you like.
Of course not. And in some ways, I can see how he interprets the god of the Bible as hating everyone. The question was, if the scripture is so clear, how can it be interpreted in so dissimilar fashions?
And the Christians deleted how many books that didn’t quite fit the mold or might have been controversial? Plus you have absolutely no idea of who actually wrote it or how they got the information. It contains nothing but what was known at the time. Pretty lame for an omniscient divination. And like I said, it’s as if they made a crude Venn Diagram of existing gods, took the overlap and added features for an upgrade. All they had was their imaginations back then. It really doesn’t stretch mine a bit to think men came up with this idea. Not at all.
Well, Dr. Phil, I defer to your vast psychological experience.
I didn’t say you did say that. I was just heading that implication off at the pass before
Damn
Sorry about the multiple postings, folks. I know you guys are frustrated with me for talking to jcc in the first place and now I’ve done this. Gremlins in my server or something.
Let’s try this one more time:
I didn’t say you did say that. I was just heading that implication off at the pass before
I don’t agree with you in regards to your assumption that Christianity would take over the government or any of that. Christianity does not seek to harm anyone not Christians not atheists not anyone. Christian simply seek to inform you and save you from everlasting torture and pain.
-God Bless,
Christian with questions and comments
I personally want God’s blessings on America. You don’t?
christianwithq’s
I assume you mean Jeebus, as you are a christian with qs? Jeebus is tied up in Crackergate, right now.
Wouldn’t you prefer the blessings of Cthulhu? His vengeance would be so much more horrible!
No I mean God the Father the one and true God, no other God but him.
Can you describe him for our sketch artist? How do you know he’s the *one true* god? Has he got some kind of validation papers? Who validated him?
He was before there was an Earth He created man and He should not have to be explained and the reason I cannot answer your “extremely hard questions” about my faith is simply because He is far to complex for the human mind to comprehend all I can do is trust him. You do believe in trust don’t you?
Who validated that their is no God?
This is not to be insulting, only to get you to inquire within yourself…..
Do you believe that you have a brain?
Well most likely you do. Have you actually ever seen your brain? Probably not or you would be dead. You know that you have a brain though because you have studied about brains maybe and you see the evidence of your brain at work in your own body. This can be somewhat of a comparision to God. God is much more complex and multifacited than that however.
The Bible says that the fool has said in his heart that there is no god. I have heard it said and ’tis true…..”When there is a design there is a designer, when there is a plan there is a planner.” You are a magnificent creation created by a CREATOR. There is a plan for you, a maganificent plan for you! God bless you on your journey of discovering that plan, the Creator, and the Savior of your soul.
christianw/q’s
You are the one making the positive claim that a god exists. It is up to you to provide evidence to support your claim. I see no evidence of such as yet. You are not the first to come here with these arguments. Sadly, you will not be the last.
No. I KNOW I have a brain. And you?
I have seen MRIs of my brain. I have had EEGs and ECTs. This is not analogous to a god, since the brain can be measured, quantified and studied, even altered.
What the Bible says about anything has no weight in this arena. You are relying on a book written by bronze age sheepherders who were barely literate. There is nothing divinely inspired about the book; it evinces nothing except what would be known at the time. In addition, it has been vastly edited and translated. Perhaps you should be following the god of the OT, before he got edited out, who required human sacrifices and had a wife?
Believe as you will. But try taking a closer look at what it is you really believe, and where it came from. Question whether it’s really necessary, or are you just afraid of death and the probability that there are no fairy-tale endings?
Are you?
Am I what? Afraid of death? No.
Afraid that there are no fairy tale endings? No. Am I the least bit afraid that I’ll come out on the wrong end of Pascal’s wager? No.
Now, I asked you first. Time to own up. Do you need to believe in god and an afterlife because you fear your own mortality?
quitian’
You said
Assuming that you are indeed human, then even you are incapable of “comprehending”.
Sounds like you are left to making up shit as you go along.
Suck it jesus