http://www.thefitna.com/Just released, This anti-Muslim movie is about 15 minutes long and is very scary and graphic. I wonder how many innocents will be killed by barbarians THIS time.Watch it — before they pull it off the server.Thanks Zac and Marc.
what:
From what country are you?
This movis/clip sickened me. I don’t know about anybody else here, but I’ve never heard a person get thier head hacked off. The sound is stuck in my auditory memory and I can’t seem to shake it. Every time I hear it, whether I’m awake or in my nightmares, I become sick yet again, amd then I fly into a fit of silent rage. Anytime I see a turbaned head on TV, the sickness returns. Now there are American soldier/hostages on TV sitting at the tip of a gun. My stomach is churning.
Ren, if hearing the horrible sound of that man dying over and over again (whether I want to or not) is anything akin to what you battle with, my eyes are filling with tears as I type.
How, oh how can humans EVER overcome this kind of, well, I don’t know what to call it?! Perhaps I can call it: people with the cognitive dissonance that allows them to hack off a head.
Will humanity ever rise above this kind of horror?
I can only feel an oppresive sense of doom and gloom.
Help me.
cry4turtles:
Just remember, it may take awhile but people are loosing their faith in gods in greater numbers. Someday we will have in Lenons words “A world without religion”.
Comment from: phreedm
Say Ren,
You’re as bad as Dave. Both of you can make claims and when asked to back them up you both quickly change topics…
Hey, phreakshow! You’re worse than these people. Many have asked you over and over again to back up the claims you make here. You either ignore them or quickly change the subject.
Why do you think you should be allowed to be even more of a hypocrite than you have repeatedly proven yourself to be here?
Comment from: phreedm
Seeker…you can’t answer these questions?
phreakshow…can’t you answer anyone else’s questions? Why do you think you are entitled to ask any of others, when you can’t answer any yourself?
Why do you think others should ignore your uncivil arrogant hypocrisy in this matter?
Comment from: phreedm0
So Alex…2000 babies torn apart is misleading the public?
So phreakshow…100,000 Iraqis torn apart by an illegal american invasion and occupation of a foreign country is acceptable to you? The coverup of those murders by the current administration and its’ media lackeys is not considered to be misleading the public by anti-choice bigots like you?
The disingenuous comments about not wanting to derail the comments thread is particularly amusing, considering that you had already thrown the thread off-topic by then. I’m also wondering how tossing in illogical irrational christian superstition would be considered anything but derailing rational comments threads, and so how you could possibly hold the opinion that any of your comments would be doing anything else except throwing the thread off-topic.
But I’ll continue to wonder, because arrogant hypocritical religiously insane Republican’t Putsch fellators feel that they’re too good to talk to the common rabble about the logical inconsistencies and a$$holish attitude they convey when they comment here.
Karen,
I never thought for a moment that you connected ME with those images. I know your heart is in the right place. Also, I didn’t mean to imply that you thought only our atrocities should be shown, I was just making sure it was clear that I also support showing all sides, to the point of making people uncomfortable about it, so maybe, just maybe, they will wake from their stupor and do something.
P.S. Did you like how I channeled Edwin Starr? Don’t know where that came from, but it just seemed appropriate
What,
It is pretty clear to me what happened at Halabja, but I will check out your link here shortly and get back with you. I have certainly been wrong about things before, I am sure I will be wrong again in the future. I will read it with an open mind, but I am already fairly well informed (misinformed?) on the subject.
cry4turtles,
Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I hear and see images that will never leave me. I am doing much better now that I am stable on meds, but am still subject to triggers like the ones you witnessed in this film.
Before I was stabalized on medication, I used to ruminate so bad that I couldn’t even stand to be in the same room with my own family. I would be deep in thought about absolutly nothing, and the slightest interruption would cause me to loose my temper to the point that I frightened myself and everyone around me.
Strangely enough, the biggest trigger I seem to have nowadays is the smell of burning garbage. I live in a small town that allows burn barrels and I don’t mind the smell of burning paper or wood, but the smell of burning garbage, especially plastic, instantly transports me back to Haiti; a terribly depressing place.
Although it upsets me that the media has all but forgotten we are at war, the net result of less coverage has actually had a beneficial effect on me. I feel compelled to watch, listen to, or read everything I can regarding Iraq, and to a lesser extent Afghanistan. Having less to peruse has meant less triggers and therefore less trauma to myself and those around me.
With respect to the documentary, I think we should give the islamic folks some ideas from their quoran, something like ‘your leaders are against allah’ or ‘your leaders are acting like satan’, or ‘your leaders are wearing boots and underpants’ (there has to be something of that nature in that book), then, sell them some guns, good amounts of dynamite, hand grenades, knifes, bow and arrows, etc… I think they may end eliminating their leaders and the problem will be partially solved.
I know it sounds a little lunatic , but lunacy responds well to lunacy. The fact is they can not reason in favor to humanity.
What,
I had never heard the idea that it was the Iranians that used a blood agent, that killed the residents of Halabja, but I have said for years that Saddam did not, in fact, “gas his own people.” The Kurds were no more Saddam’s people than the Cherokee, Crow, Blackfoot, Sioux etc… were Andrew Jackson’s people.
The fact is: The Kurds aligned themselves with the Iranians during the Iran/Iraq war, thereby making themselves legitimate targets of Saddam.
My statement that IF we were going to invade Iraq because of Bio-Chem weapons, it should have been done back then, when he still had them and was activly using them, not 15 years after the fact and using that as the justification.
Thank you for the link. I was very informative.
Uhm, make that, “IT was very informative.”
DD
I think you already know that I am a US citizen so why the question?
“Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for”
Ren
I think that you are dead-on with respect to Halabja. Sadaam was a SOB that killed and tortured citizens of what we call Iraq but that Iraq has really never been a country in the sense that we understand. The British carved the region up and only an iron fist could make Iraq resemble a “country”. And the US supported that iron fist wholeheartedly.
The Iran-Iraq war was just that – a war. And ghastly things happen during wars. Halabja was one of those. But Halabja has US fingerprints on it as well and to paint it otherwise is a disservice to humanity.
Stephen Pelletiere’s NYTimes Op-Ed piece was overlooked by most everyone in the MSM and it deserved a good look. But instead the MSM and the ignorant US populace was to busy with cheerleading for the war.
What really pisses me off is those cheerleaders. They talk a good game – “USA! USA!” – “Support the troops” – “The brave troops doing their duty” – but they did not do their duty. They did not do the research required of a good citizen. If they had we would not be stuck in this costly war and occupation. Instead the US citizenry spent its time selling each other houses in a twisted Ponzi scheme while those “doing their duty” were dying for a lie.
What:
So I guess you are one of those that blame 9-11 on us too. Seems all the worlds problems are because of the US.
At least that is what you seem to be saying.
I agree with phred & seeker on this one, evangelicals aren’t beating & killing their daughters for chatting on Facebook.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live
/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_
id=550569&in_page_id=1766&ito=1490
DD
In 2003 you didn’t do your duty as citizen of the USA. You did not do the most basic research that would have lead you to the conclusion that there were no WMDs of significance. Now, now you have the gall to point the finger of patriotism at those who did.
And that’s your problem. You GUESS.
mxracer,
Nope. They sure aren’t. They are too busy dropping bombs on the children of others.
Ren
What:
What proof did you have that he did not have WMD?s? Was it Sadams word?
His actions of hindering the inspectors were nothing less than suspicious. He did not abide by the resolutions that he agreed to when he unconditionally surrendered after he attacked another Muslim country that did nothing to him in the 1st place. Most of the intelligence agencies around the world found his activities quite suspicious. No one knew for sure if he did or did not. So what intelligence agency convinced you that he absolutely did NOT still have them hidden away?
I am sure your hind vision is 20/20, but I want to know what research you did that was soooo much better than the free worlds intelligence.
I have a few more very important questions. Do you hate America? Do you love people that hate America? It does seem that way. You seem to defend anyone against our way of life.
You are so clueless. You have no idea what I did in 2003. Were you ever in the military service? I seriously doubt it. I will point my finger at anyone that spouts ignorance, and hate for our country.
If you do not like this country then just go live with the Iranians. They would love your asinine rhetoric.
DeepDiver:
DD, I don’t care what else you beleive. but it has been abundantly verified that the war was a farce.
not only have we not found any evidence of WMD’s in iraq, it has come out that the evidence that bush CLAIMED to have in 2003 was entirely misrepresented and mostly falsified.
he MIGHT have had wmd’s like there MIGHT be a teapot in orbit between earth and mars.
any more of this and I’ll have to rescind the little credibility I once extended to you.
here:
http://www.democracynow.org/2004/12/16/cia_agent_says_bosses_ordered_him
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?pid=1442
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/
FlyingWeasel;
I want you to reread my posts.
Where did I say he had any WMD?s?
I am only commenting on WHAT?s anti American rhetoric.
Does anyone here believe in America anymore? How about our Constitution that guarantees us our freedoms? I am very disappointed in some of the crap I have seen in this blog today.
DeepDiver,
I’ve lost a lot of respect for America since the christian started to be respected by the government. Respect by our government for christianity is a road to destruction of a once great nation.
Before the shrub pushed the button, there were reports from the UN inspectors that they had looked in every reasonable place and had not found any signs of WMD. The aluminum tube story had already been discredited.
The link you provided, provides a reasonably accurate time line but, it doesn’t draw a conclusion concerning the lies or deceit that was spread by the christian shrub machine.
There were in fact problems with Iraq but, some of the responsibility lay with the United States prior positions and actions. However, that could not be an endless excuse for continuing problems and eventually a majority of nations may well have supported military action if the problems in Iraq persisted. However, the time was not right if common sense and reason would have been the deciding factors but, that wasn’t the case, religion, along with oil and, the shrub wanting to fix what he viewed as his fathers mistake and, some stupid idea that the public was ripe for support of a war with Iraq were the factors that lead to the first strike. Personally, I think all those are stupid reasons to start a war. The fact that there were no WMD was known reasonably well prior to the decision made by the shrub.
Our Constitution has been breached by the christians. In order for me to have pride and a general good feeling about the United States, some things will need to change. The removal of religion from our government would be a giant step in the right direction.
I do not give unquestioned respect to anyone or any nation. My respect is given and removed based on evidence and the actions of those in question.
DD
Let’s start with the aluminum tubes. It was well known before the invasion that these tubes were not for centrifuges but rather for conventional shells. But BushCo claimed otherwise. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
Then there was the famous sixteen words:
?The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.? Why didn’t Bush tell us WHICH country. That little tidbit set off waves of speculation which where never answered by BushCo. That should have sent up one huge freaking red flag. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
And then there was Colin Powel’s laughable Feb 2003 presentation to the UN with no tangible evidence whatsoever. The scum bag spoke of an “updated” intelligence dossier from the Brits. Two days later what happened? Embarrassed British officials had to admit that the bulk of the dossier had plagiarized from an outdated freaking graduate student thesis assessing Iraq?s weapons capability in 1991. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
And then there were the claims by BushCo that Iraq had stores of chemical weapons. But these chemical weapons were sold to him buy the US. They were organophosphate and cyanide based weapons (in the 90s) that had half-lifes that would have made them useless 10 years later. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
The claims of nuclear weapons were debunked by Scott Ritter (UN weapons inspector in Iraq) team prior to the invasion. In 2002 Ritter wrote about the absurdity of WMDs in Iraq in “War on Iraq: What Team Bush Doesn?t Want You To Know”.
But BushCo kept pressing on with the “mushroom cloud” propaganda. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
Hans Blix team was inspecting the hell out of Iraq and he was reporting back frequently that no weapons were being found and that it was unlikely there were any as per Ritter. But BushCo pulled Blix out. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
Bush promised to return to the UN for a second vote to clarify what resolution 1441 meant with respect to enforcement but he did not. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
We were about to undertake the invasion of a country that had not attacked us – A PREEMPTIVE WAR. To undertake such an extraordinary action, well outside of the UN charter, should have required extraordinary evidence but there was none. A citizen would have asked WHY? Did you?
Some responsible ADULTS did! You did not.
I was clubbed by police and lost my job at a federal installation because I protested and organized against this war. So tell me who is the real American citizen. You or people like me?
Look in the mirror!
Could not agree more, but we also have the right and obligation to restore it. Many are trying to do just so.
Unfortunately, many like What just wish to bad mouth America and support its enemies.
What: noticed you really said nothing new.
Not one word about the evils of Sadam. Nor of any Muslim ruler, cleric nor nation
Not one word about the good we have done.
Of course you do not want to find these because it would delute you hatred of America.
That is what this whole issue is about. Your hatred of America.
Comment from: DeepDiver
FlyingWeasel;
I want you to reread my posts.
Where did I say he had any WMD?s?
I am only commenting on WHAT?s anti American rhetoric.
DeepDiver:
Where did What say that he hated america?
It sounds to me as though you are engaging in the very thing you criticize What for doing.
It also sounds to me that What hates the Republican’t junta that took over in a coup in 2000 – not america. And he would like to see others express a similar concern instead of just sweeping it all under the rug.
My recollection of the times was that the weapons inspectors had done a very thorough job of cataloguing and destroying WMDs in Iraq (somewhere over 98% of everything was thought to have been found), and then the Cokespoon Cowboy pulled them out of Iraq before they could verify that there were no WMDs and remove the main rationale for his illegal occupation of a foreign country with a lot of cheap oil.
I also noticed that you want to focus on the evils of Saddam and the muslims, and the good of the american regime and its’ main religious group of moralistic busybodies.
No focus on the evil we’ve done.
No acknowledgement that it appears that the Disaster Monkey is a worse dictator of Iraq than Saddam.
No indication that you’re aware that america has helped turn Iraq, the only secular state in the middle east, into a muslim theocracy.
I don’t think that Saddam was anything but an evil bastich who didn’t deserve to be treated as well as he was. But I’m not prepared to gloss over the incompetent clueless Giggling Murderer, or his cabal, or the clusterCheney they’ve dragged america into in the middle east. Or the way they’ve trashed america while doing it.
You know what, I’m done here. I have said over and over, this was a f’ed up war we should have never gotten involved with. We should have focused 100% on Afganistan. People continuously compare the United States to Muslim extremists. That we are no better than these Muslim extemists. Hinting that we are worst.
Don’t bother responding. I’m not getting my message across. Moving on.
A few quotes for your entertainment(?):
“An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland.”
Adolph Hitler
Remind you of anyone? (hint: bush, cheney, rumsfeld?)
It is the leaders of countries who determine policy in regard to war. Of course the people don?t want war; however it is easy to get them to go along. Tell them they are being attacked and are in danger and denounce the peacemakers as lacking patriotism. It works every time.
Hermann Goering
(emphasis mine)
Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Dr. Samuel Johnson
One last one:
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president (right or wrong), is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
Theodore Roosevelt
DD:
I apologise if I was wrong, but you really seemed to be making the case here that our “pre-emptive strike” on iraq was justified.
we don’t invade a country just because we’re NOT 100% positive they AREN’T a threat, we invade when we’re positive they ARE a threat.
like most christians, bush and co started with the conclusion (iraq is a threat) and then tried to find evidence to support their rhetoric.
So if this information was known to DD at the time then why did he support the invasion that he now thinks was a mistake? Some people just don’t know when to quit.
deepdiver, ex-Senator(R)Lincoln Chafee said that he never saw the evidence of Saddam’s WMD’s.
Two days before the Bush invasion, French President Jacques Chirac was interviewed on CBS. He said he had not seen any evidence.
The next day he gave a speech repeating that. He said that the inspection teams had done a good job and were continuing to do so.
Some people, like Chaffee, Chirac, hey and even me, were lucid about Bush lies.