http://www.thefitna.com/Just released, This anti-Muslim movie is about 15 minutes long and is very scary and graphic. I wonder how many innocents will be killed by barbarians THIS time.Watch it — before they pull it off the server.Thanks Zac and Marc.
Isn’t that official Rovian doctrine?
I’ll put my first hand experiences up against your talking points any day.
“Tell a lie often enough and it becomes truth…”
At least for phreedumb, or any other xian for that matter.
That’s funny! My next door neighbors are devout Christians. Go to church every Sunday, yet I love them to death. I would do anything in the world for them. Reason? Because they respect my right to believe as I wish, just as I respect their right to believe as they wish. It is only those that try to force their beliefs onto me that I take issue with.
Take yourself for example. You come here to our sanctuary, spewing your horse shit, and you catch hell for it. I don’t give a rat’s ass what you believe personally, regarding religion, just keep it to yourself. Nuff said!
Ren
The soon to be indicted Rove? Yep, that’s the one.
Say Ren,
You’re as bad as Dave. Both of you can make claims and when asked to back them up you both quickly change topics…
Hey…I figured you’d love to see the kind of guy you’re supporting for Prez…
Didn’t you even caucus for him…?
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/03/27/obamas-former-pastor-builds-a-multimillion-dollar-retirement-home/
“Christ is the way”, you need psychiatric help.
Rusty Shackleford, thanks for that information about wikipedia which I just read. Now I can skip the video. I once saw a video showing a muslim cutting off somebody’s head, and I don’t need to be grossed out again.
It’s very obvious Muslims are insane, but it’s important to remember Christians are equally insane.
Look at this crap, written on a Christian blog today by a pastor: “The Bible teaches of Salvation by Grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Without that faith, it doesn’t matter how many good works a person performs…If they have not put their faith, hope and trust in Jesus Christ….they will not go to Heaven, but will wind up in the Fiery Pit of Satan called HELL.” http://tinyurl.com/34yvyn
Notice this part: “it doesn’t matter how many good works a person performs”
I don’t care which sky fairy a religious person believes in. All religious people are scum.
“Jesus is my hope and trust”
Why don’t you make the world a better place and drop dead right now so you can see your jesus preacher man.
Idiot.
Well said.
well seeker, it is certainly better said than what you didn’t know about Robespierre. You are giving phreedom competition.
wisconsinatheist,
The Genesis creation account has a few other glitches.
Note, for example that the light and darkness (day and night) appeared, not the mention 24 hour days, before the sun was created on day four.
Another problem is the existence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers — their geographical locations included — prior to Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden. These would have been erased by Noah’s universal flood.
Another problem is the very existence of Satan. His objective is to dethrone God. However, if he were to succeed the entire universal — both physical and spiritual — would cease to exist; including Satan himself. Is Satan on a suicide mission?
I posed these problems many times and have yet to receive a satisfactory response. Phreedm is welcome to respond, if he/she cares to do so.
Now, back the subject of Muslim terrorists…
Christians suck…
Seeker
You are arguing about what the fairies said when there is no evidence for the existence of fairies? Matter of fact, can you give an operational definition of fairies so that I might recognize them?
bernarda,
I’ve read several biographies of Robespierre and have yet to see any indication that he believed in theism. Some claim he was a deist.
In fact, he had no toleration for any opponents of the revolution. The Hebertists (atheists) were no exception). “Atheism is aristocratic,” he wrote.
In his waning days, when some historians believe he was insane, he attempted to defer the religious from their traditions to the state by creating a state religion, “Cult of the Supreme Being” when his “Cult of Reason” failed to displace religion. Max, it turns out, positioned himself as the Supreme Being.
Here’s an interesting bit of history:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/robespierre-supreme.html
Atheist wish to distance themselves from Robespierre. Who can blame them?
Wrong again. I’m not changing the subject on anybody… I’m just ignoring your ignorant ass.
Oh, and BTW; Thanks for the kind words Seeker.
What,
Are you refering to his role in the prosecution of the former Alabama Governor? I would love to see him in leg irons almost as much as I would love to see him swing from a rope.
So another shepard sheers his flock. Big whoop. Tell me something I didn’t already know.
BTW, do you hold yourself accountable for everything your preacher-man has ever said and done? If not, why the double standard? Oh wait, I forgot. It’s standard operating proceedure for a Christian like yourself.
Sneaker,
In the United States the christian is the problem, they try to force their strange quackery on everyone. Almost every legal tender I receive has the disgusting phrase “In G** We Trust” on it, however, being a concerned citizen I almost always remove that phrase or change it to a family friendly statement such as the far more honest phrase (although not universally so) “In Dogs we trust”.
Like all religions, christians follow and believe without question the babble that comes from the mouths of their preachers. The christian believes that the more destruction, the closer to geebus they are getting. The christian is seeking the destruction that will mark them as special and chosen as per the myth of their god-idea.
Anyone that doesn’t believe in the preplanned destruction that is required of the christian will not be asking and hoping for that destruction. In order to have any hope of living in a peaceful and sustainable world, all god-ideas must be removed from the policy of society. Policy needs to be set according to facts and clear reasoning, not by catering to those that want to chase a fantasy to its destructive conclusion.
Removing all religion from governments does not guarantee sanity but it does lead to an environment in which reasoned and fact base policy can occur, that cannot happen with a government that respects religion.
rna2dna,
I don’t disagree.
My points are…
that the head-lobbing, car-bombing, plane-crashing extremism of Islam is not characteristic of American evangelicals.
not all religionists are violent-prone extremists and not all atheists are rosy-cheeked pacifists.
Does it bother anyone that some of the above posts by atheists smack of the same puerile hatred of which we accuse religionists?
Sneaker,
Religionists use the weapons they have access to. The christians have access to weapons that allow them to control the air space over the world so the christians use bombs that are far more destructive than car bombs. The christian dominated government of the United States doesn’t talk about the victims of their bombs because the christians don’t want you to know about the innocent lives that they destroy. You can sympathize with the christians all you want but the christian destruction is still far greater.
As I stated before, removing respect for christianity from government does not guarantee sanity but, it does provide a platform where reasoning and facts can be used to set policy.
As christians have become frustrated while waiting, they have become increasingly forceful in trying to isolate and belittle others that do not believe in their fantasy.
Sneaker, I don’t like christians because their goal is destruction and they force theirselves on innocent people. We have already tried to reason with the christians, however, the christian response was to ignore us. I will not give christians respect until the christians respect me.
Sneaker, have you contacted your government representatives and asked them to support the removal of the disgusting phrase from the legal currency of the United States? How about removal of the disgusting phrase from the Pledge of Allegiance? The christians are trying to force the United States to become a christian theocracy.
Unlike you Sneaker, I will not simply watch as the christians push their way to destroying the planet. Don’t expect me to accept your love a christian message.
Suck it, jesus!
Seeker
Your willingness to overlook what the radically xian Bush administration has done in Iraq and instead focus on the behavior of a relatively small number unrelated muslims is repulsive.
Of which “we accuse”? Stop feigning atheism. I don’t think anyone here is buying your schtick.
Ren
Yes indeedy I am.
Oh darn! The rope was a bit too long.
What:
Ren said…
I had just watched that movie and a lot of my friends and associates died in these terrorists? attacks. America is NOT a Christian nation. Comparing Muslim fanatics to America is asinine.
If you believe war is sterile, then you are very naive. You do not drop a bomb and have it say, hmmm, it will only kill the enemy. It would be ideal but not reality.
Our war is not against Muslims but perhaps it should be. There is no outcry from the Muslim community when there is a terrorist attack. The terrorists live in the same Muslim communities. There is a large percentage of Muslims that do not want us to have personal freedoms. A large percentage of Muslims are just plain crazy fanatics.
We are at the beginning of a war that is not Christian against Muslim, or America against Muslim. It is a war for the freedom of all peoples.
Just to set the record straight. I do not believe we should have invaded Iraq. We should go after any that are responsible for the attacks against us. No matter what country or community they are hiding in. If innocent people are killed along with them, that is their fault for harboring them.
Those Muslims in this country that speak hate and intolerance of others need to be sent back to a country like Iran. They obviously do not believe in the American way and have no business in this country. Sedition needs to be dealt with quickly.
So Ren, your comment had three things that really pissed me off.
1. This is not a Christian America.
2. Comparing us to Muslim fanatics.
3. Your comment that we are simply more capable of killing on a greater scale. Are you implying that we enjoy it? These Muslim fanatics do enjoy it and want to kill all of us that are not Muslim. And the ?peaceful Muslims? are doing what to stop these acts?
If you have an idea on how we can get rid of these animals without hurting these innocents that they live among, then please let us know. I am sure you have the answer, genius.
DeepDiver,
The numbers I have seen and tend to believe is over 600,000. IMHO, it doesn’t really matter how many were killed by us, or by them. It was us that unleashed the dogs of war in that country, and therefore, are ultimatly responsible for every single death due to violence there. We are also responsible for all the deaths due to a breakdown of their society, i.e. people that got sick but would have been cured had it not been for the fact all the doctors were murdered or fled the country.
In the words of Colin Powell, “Pottery Barn Rules… We break it, we own it”
what said:
that reminds me of a story I heard once, or twice… or actually a few times.
this devoutly religious man was exposed as a murderer/pedophile/adulterer/druggie/gay/into wet suits/whatever. when his fellow flockers found out, what did they say?
“oh, he must not have been a REAL christian” or “he must not have had CHRIST in his heart”.
so, don’t go following suit by applying the no-true-scottsman fallacy to seeker. he may not be right about a few things, he may not be quite as developed in his atheism as some people, but we have no reason to call him a liar just because we don’t agree with him.
Karen, I watched the video and believe he could have made it more graphic. For example, he did not show the entire beheading of Pearl.
I too have seen most of this before, but a piece here and a piece there. He has done nothing but put it all together in one film as a documentary.
Is anything he depicted incorrect?
By the way, Ren. You are not an idiot and I am sorry I flew of the hinge and called you one. In my opinion, it was your comments that were idiotic. I will try to control my fury in the future.
You just touched a very sensitive spot.
There was only one of your comments I agreed with, at all. And I agree 100%
I absolutely adore this!
It is on par with: Everything I say is a lie.
***
I haven’t been following the discussions lately. Can someone explain the animosity toward Seeker. It seems out of proportion to what I’ve read.
Christ is in the Way-
You affirm that most xians are mindless robots who have nothing of value to add to a conversation/debate.
I would like to hear your evidence for the authenticity of the Adam and Eve story.
You have wasted many pixels on this blog, to this point.
DeepDiver,
Thanks for clarifying your statement. No offense taken.
While I am no idiot, I am not a genius either. But thanks anyways.
Unlike most of America, that believes war IS sterile, I know firsthand that it is not. That is why I am so wrapped around the axle about us starting a war against a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with the attacks against us on 9-11. How many hundreds of thousands of humans do we get to kill before it is WE that are the terrorists?
I have lost four soldier friends in this war, that I know of, and probably many more. I will never know how many of my friends have been maimed for life by it. Another big beef that I have is all the soldiers coming home without so much as a scratch on them, but their minds will forever be damaged, just like mine, from the carnage they have witnessed and been a part of.
I was not saying that America is a Christian nation, I was referring to the part of America that IS Christian. I was blaming the Christian majority for their blood lust in the run-up to the war in Iraq. The Christians and especially the Jews (Pearl, Feith etc..) that trumped up this war are, in fact, no better than the muslim fanatics that attacked the United States. I am sorry if you thought I was referring to ALL Americans. I was referring to the administration and their supporters.
Unfortunatly… Yes! There is a certain segment of the American population that very much enjoyed Shock and Awe. Think back to March of 2003 and what the attitude of the country was like at the time. I just saw on TV last night, again, for the thousandth time, the opening salvo in the war against Iraq. I remember people watching explosion after explosion in Baghdad, a city of over 5 million human beings, and cheering like it was a fourth of July clebration.
For starters, we never should have taken our eye off the ball in Afghanistan. I fully support our mission there, because the Taliban government gave safe haven to the terrorists that DID attack us. If every soldier currently in Iraq, was suddenly removed and sent to Afghanistan, I would not only NOT complain, I would cheer. The Afghan/Pakistan border is where we should be fighting terrorism, not in Iraq.
Invading Iraq because of 9-11 is the moral equivilent of invading Canada in order to stem the tide of illegal Mexicans flooding across our southern border.
Ren:
We are in agreement on much.
I was one that agreed with going to war with Iraq, but only because we have a leader that lied about the WMDs. I was pissed as hell when news came out about how we were misled. Sadam did not help by playing games with us by not following the international laws.
I would not lose one minute of sleep if Bush was charged with war crimes.
One thing keeps coming up though which is in need of correction.
People keep saying that we killed 100,000 people. How many were killed by the Muslims over there?
Seeker…you can’t answer these questions?
Note, for example that the light and darkness (day and night) appeared, not the mention 24 hour days, before the sun was created on day four.
Another problem is the existence of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers — their geographical locations included — prior to Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden. These would have been erased by Noah’s universal flood.
Another problem is the very existence of Satan. His objective is to dethrone God. However, if he were to succeed the entire universal — both physical and spiritual — would cease to exist; including Satan himself. Is Satan on a suicide mission?
Comment from: Ren
Not before he bcame my preacher, but I certainly do hold him accountable for everything he does now…
Wouldn’t you…?
You still are avoiding my original question…
No! I wouldn’t have a preacher in the first place. I am responsible for my own actions and to a great extent, those of my children.
I may not be a leader, but I’m no follower, either.
DeepDiver
Not that I know of. It all seemed to be taken from news clips edited together.
Ren
I fully understand why you couldn’t watch it. In fact, I thought of you while I was watching it. That’s partly why I wondered if my heart has become a bit too hardened to the sight of this kind of graphic violence. I still think that images of the war should be blazing on the evening news in our country, forcing our citizens to be aware of the carnage we’re inflicting. Make people uncomfortable while they’re eating dinner, safe in their homes as the damage is inflicted “over there”.
Seeker
I think the Christians are every bit as dangerous as the Muslims; they’re just more subtle and not as ham-handed. Witness how they have insinuated their influence into our government and manipulated this war.
Comment from: karen
Agreed…they should also show full images of the carnage from abortions…
A first trimester abortion is little more than a clot of blood and a tiny blob of tissue. The “carnage from abortions” to which you allude (discernible body parts) are from the now illegal and always incredibly rare “partial birth abortions” which the loony xians love to mislead people into thinking are what an early abortion looks like. More lies for Jesus from True Christians?.
So Alex…2000 babies torn apart is misleading the public?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802428.html?hpid=topnews
At what count would you consider to be to many?
You are the one who is attempting to mislead…
However I don’t want to derail this thread into an abortion debate…
I agree with Karen that the horrors of war should be shown every night…
INCLUDING the 9/11 attacks which many networks refuse to show…
Off Topic
Does anyone here think there is any chance that a world court organization will ask for a trail against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield et al and what would the new president’s reaction be?
What:
Chill out and study this link.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4996218
I have done my homework.
Again, I am pissed we were lied to by the administration. Yes we should have not gone there. What else do you want me to say?
Sadam played with us and the international community. He was responsible for the deaths of many hundreds of thousands. Is he a hero of yours. I have seen you slam our country, but not one word against Sadam.
watched the film. Interesting that there are similar passages in the Judeo-Xian Old Testament about killing anyone who is not your religion, as well as specific ways to do it. Perhaps Islam is no more violent than the others (or at least how the others *used* to be).
Islam is a newer cult than judaism or xianity and as such has yet to undergo it’s own moderating Enlightenment. Ancient judaism and Medieaval xianity were just as brutal as modern day islam but in those days weapons of mass destruction were sticks and stones and swords and horses not planes and nuclear bombs.
Wow, where to begin?
Karen,
Thank you so much for thinking of me as you watched the horrors of that vile film. I agree that every horror of war should be blasted on every channel of every TV until the public ‘gets it’. That is to say, war is hell, no really, it is hell on earth. Of course, no need to be one sided about it. Show all sides and all the atrocities until it is burned into the brains of every living human being that, “WAR, uh good god y’all, what is it good for? Absolutly nothin’! Say it again.”
WTF? Did our phreddy say that? Maybe there is a god, afterall.
DeepDiver,
I will be the first to admit that Saddam was a bastard, but he was our bastard in the region for a long time and on our dime. The world is better off without him and his thug sons. Like you, I am sure, I just don’t think so many innocents deserved to die or be maimed to get rid of him. Now, if he had attacked us, or threatened to attack us, then all I can say is, “Game on.” I am guessing that is how you felt in March of ‘03?
foot152,
A fella can dream, can’t he?
alex,
Very well stated!
Alex, I have heard the same, ‘but we can not bear to wait for Islam to mature to the somewhat peaceful level xtianity professes to be’. I am paraphrasing of course, but I believe that is close to the quote I heard.
Ren, don’t forget the Shaw, Noriega, etc. We seem to not learn from history.
I do not think any innocents deserve to die, or be maimed, but until there is a weapon that can target ONLY those we want to hit, innocent ones will unfortunately pay the price.
Ren
Just to be clear, I don’t connect you to the vile images of the war. I was thinking of how the images would be triggers for you and how they would affect you. And I did mean for all sides of it to be covered.
Ren
What happened in Halabja is anything but clear. Here is a NYTimes opinion piece that everyone should have read in jan 2003 but did not.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/020303C.htm
DD
I know the timeline like the back of my hand. If you have a point to make then make it.
Sorry to burst your bubble (later than most) but it is the USA that played the UN.
Not nearly as many as you have been lead to believe. Read the op/ed piece at the link I provided above.
Any more juvenile neocon-ass-kissing questions?
Sorry, its a tradition with me to take responsibility for my actions and my countries actions. As I am sure you are aware by now the whole patriotism thing is over-rated.
As I am sure you are aware by now the whole patriotism thing is over-rated.
Not if you are lucky enough to have American citizenship. USA! USA! USA!
Seriously, living here is like winning the fucking lottery in life for those who get off their arse and do something instead of just sitting around bitching all the time. I’m the first to crticize American policy but not the opportunities to be found here.
/Flag waving rant over
Alex
Will you be chanting if we invade Iran based on phoney intel?
paraphrasing from someone…
dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
I’ll bet all the people who got caught up in Germany’s nationalist fervor in the 1930’s and 40’s felt pretty darn silly after it was all over.
- seeker, I don’t think that anyone thinks that atheists are all pacifists. As far as I can tell, the main instigators of the Iraq War, the necons, mostly seem to be non-believers.
- Apparently nationalist fervor has declined somewhat. Did you hear fans loudly booing Bush at the opening game of the baseball season?