http://tinyurl.com/28ybkl
Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev made clear this past weekend that he is an atheist after European news agencies last week claimed that he had confirmed his Christian faith during a visit to the tomb of St. Francis of Assisi in Italy.Gorbachev, the last communist leader of the Soviet Union, confronted speculations that he had been a closeted Christian during an interview with the Russian news agency Interfax.”Over the last few days some media have been disseminating fantasies ? I can’t use any other word ? about my secret Catholicism, citing my visit to the Sacro Convento friary, where the remains of St. Francis of Assisi lie,” Gorbachev said, according to an Interfax article posted Friday.”To sum up and avoid any misunderstandings, let me say that I have been and remain an atheist,? he stated.Rumors for decades had circulated that Gorbachev was a Christian after he moved to loosen restrictions on religious worship and expressed to a party congress a year before the communist state dissolved that ?spiritual rebirth is as essential to society as oxygen,? according to the Chicago Tribune.As a result, media agencies had jumped to conclusions when Gorbachev visited St. Francis? tomb last Wednesday and was seen kneeling for half an hour in silence at the tomb.But Gorbachev, who was baptized Russian Orthodox as a child, explained that his visit to the tomb was as a tourist and not a pilgrim. He acknowledged the important role religion plays in society and said he looks forward to visiting Orthodox churches in Russia, Catholic and Protestant churches in the United States and Europe, synagogues in Israel and mosques in the Arab world, according to Interfax.”But all these years, it has never occurred to anyone to list me among followers of any faith on that basis,” Gorbachev noted.Back in Russia, the Russian Orthodox Church seemed unimpressed with Gorbachev?s visit to St. Francis? tomb.”In Italy, he spoke in emotional terms, rather than in terms of faith,” a spokesman for the Russian Orthodox patriarch Alexei II told the Russian media.”He is still on his way to Christianity. If he arrives, we will welcome him.”
Notice how the Christian spokesperson can’t accept what Gorbachev says himself. He’s not an Atheist, he’s “on his way to Christianity”. This is intolerance (AGAIN), and we should not be open to such BS. If you say you’re a Christian, do we say “you’re on your way to Atheism”? No. We ACCEPT your choice, instead of assuming you’re lying.
Good old Gorbachev. Any time you do something that rings or resonates with a certain group, that group automatically looks upon you as one of their own. I had a friend call me a “saint sent from god” because I got him another beer when I was refilling my own beer at the St. Patricks Day celebration we had. I just laughed at the notion
Quantum,
Mock not the beer gods.
Once at a college frat party, I went to get beer for me and a girl whom with I came to the party. While waiting in line, I met another girl whom I ultimately wed.
All hail the gods of beer!
No suprise here……all communist are atheist and vice versa.
Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and Castro are some other good examples of Communist/Atheist, and not only is it clear atheist drive once vibrant economies into the ground, but they’re also psychotic socio-paths, and the biggest criminals known to man. It is clear the religion of atheism/communism can’t survive in the free market of ideas, so it has to be forced on the un-willing masses.
btw, don’t name Warren Buffett as an example of being a good atheist…..Warren is was one of the most culturally devoid, egalitarian, self-centered, stingy, boring anglos on the face of the earth. Passion is a foreign word to that bleach blood. We’re talking “wonder bread” and “peanut butter” here…..blah.
But it’s all cool, because Warren (and many others) will get their pink slips when the Aztlan nation rises.
http://www.aztlan.net/
I’d make a lousy communist. Unless I was the ruler and owned everything. Then I’d be a gooood communist.
Salvador,
Some religious people are terrorists, therefore all religious people are terrorists.
How does it feel to be a terrorist?
Move to China then Dave. They practically worship you there just because you’re an American, you’re healthy, and you have money.
Although, don’t breath the air there because of the pollution.
David,
Salvador has already shown a severe aversion to learning, I wouldn’t bother with him/her/it.
Check the “Resurrection reflection” thread to see just how soundly his bizarre theory was proven incorrect.
He failed to defend his bizarre theory against the facts and now he’s carrying on again as if his bizarre theory somehow reflects reality.
He’s just another nutcase.
Comment from: Salvador
No suprise here……all communist are atheist and vice versa.
No surprise here…a religiously insane pedophile enabling theofasc!st has problems interpreting and understanding reality. While slandering others and hypocritically lying about his fellow man.
Ho hum – just the standard jeebus freak spouting his religiously insane superstitious nonsense. I hear better coming from soapboxes in my local park.
Smarter religiously insane theofasc!st Republican’t Putsch fellators, please…
Also – I’m not sure, Dave, if everyone quite caught your parody of Duh Chimperor when he said
if, in fact, you were parodying that comment. It sure made me think of the Texas Souffle and his desires for dictatorship…
Ha ha! Aztlan retaking the Southwest USA? Mexicans can’t even afford to wipe their collective arse without crossing the border to take a low paying American job. Dream on and don’t forget your leafblower. Bwahahaha!
Salvador,
The only reason you don’t want people talking about Warren Buffett is because his existence completely destroys your bizarre theory about communism.
Is this just a small sample of the kind of failure to think we can expect of you in the future? It’s better if we get this out of the way right now so I can just ignore you.
We all know that xians are globally dumber than a stump, or at best ignorant. That wouldn’t be such a problem if they weren’t such assholes.
Sorry, it’s not intolerance. Just wishful thinking. I am not only a non-theist (I don’t like defining myself in terms of other people’s beliefs) I am also a political liberal. I hope some people who are conservatives join me in my thinking. That doesn’t make me intolerant.
Remember Lennon’s anthem, ‘Some day I hope you will join us …’
Salvador sure is using the ellipsis a lot.
Phreeky hand puppet or Phreeky wannabe? Discuss.
What,
I think they just suffer from the same failure to think critically that manifests itself as a common urge to cover up the gaping holes in the so-called logic they attempt to use in their insane blathering by inserting ellipses into their text instead of backing up their bizarre assertions.
I would also like to submit the previous sentence for some sort of run-on award.
Funny how you all ignore one of the most revealing comments in the article…
And validated his views with…
Funny how you all ignore one of the most revealing comments in the article…
And validated his views with…
Now, what good little atheist would make such claims…?
After all, we’ve just learned that talk is cheap. He may “claim” to be an atheist in much the same way Dave “claimed” AA has gone after Jew’s and Muslims…
I guess it’s just some of those high moral standards developed by those without a foundational belief system…
Why do liberals always give a pass to their leaders when they embellish the truth…???
For “What” and “));tom;((…
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/embellish
Jew’s=Jews
phred:
Could be anyone, granted a small %, but remember, atheists don’t agree about everything.
You’re really grasping for straws elsewhere.
mxr…you don’t find it odd that Dave can’t post a single link to ONE law suit brought on by AA against a Jew or Arab?
Even after he told everyone AA had, hmmm…what was the phrase?. Oh yeah…”tons of legal activity”…
Come on Dave…as you said. Put Up and Shut me up…!!!
You know you would if you could…
Poor pathetic Phreeky. He’s being ignored. I find it much more productive to mock him while never addressing him directly.
Oh well. To each his own.
Let Phreedm Wring!
What ever.
He keeps wringing heaven, but so far it’s always a wrong number.
:^}
Would be nice if he wrung his hands elsewhere. Just because he is so very good at lying to himself, doesn’t mean we want to hear him do it.
“Ha ha! Aztlan retaking the Southwest USA? Mexicans can’t even afford to wipe their collective arse without crossing the border to take a low paying American job. Dream on and don’t forget your leafblower. Bwahahaha!”
The Aztlan revolution will not be an armed uprising. It will be a demographic take over. We will obtain the land through birth rate and birth right, and just vote the anglo politicians out of office. Most of the remaing anglos will just leave the land willingly, because we will make them feel very unwelcomed in our new homeland (we’re already doing this in California, and the anglos are complying), and then the southwest will be ours. Demographics is Destiny!!!! Bwahahaha!
I some of what Salvy is smok’n.
Comment from Phreedm:
Now, what good little atheist would make such claims…?
I don’t go to psychologist, but I think they are good for society. Some people need a little help and support. Religion is just another form of psychology for those that can handle life on their own.
ps. It has been shown that religios people often lead happier lives. Being happy is good for you health. So, in some forms, religion can be good. Just don’t push it on everyone else. Ignorance is often bliss.
Phreedm,
You seem to be arguing that Gorbachev wasn’t really an atheist, but then two paragraphs later you chastise him for not having a foundational belief system.
Your post is as internally consistent as the Bible.
Salvador,
I’m glad you’ve come out of the closet as a racist and a fascist. Now I can stop wasting my time with you.
for phreakshow:
http://www.youahevnothingofvaluetosay.yetyoucannotshutyourpiehole.bitemeyoureligiouslyinsaneidiot.org
I doubt there is anything that can stop religiously insane theofasc!st Republican’t Putsch fellators like you from continuing to spew their vile superstitious lies.
And I will continue to point out that, once again, the pathetic little phreakshow stamps its’ cloven hoof and demands that others respond to its’ lunacy – while simultaneously refusing to even consider responding to the numerous and constant challenges to the factually lacking content of its’ occult fairy tales. Nice set of double standards you gots there, christian hypocrite (but I repeat myself). Suck it, jeebus phreak!
Also: alatham – your run on sentence skills are formidable, young padwan. Focus on enhancing your talents (with perhaps some utilization of the parenthetical aside within the sentence), and varying the rhythm of your delivery with judiciously placed commas in order to lull the reader into mentally breaking your run on into discrete parts, and you shall soon be in the running for some serious run on sentence competition. I would suggest that you try and add as many creative epithets to your phreakish humiliations (in order to extend your sentences) as an exercise in extending your sentencing excursions.
Oh, and slavedoor – nice racist bigotry you gots going there. I can’t quite remember where the buybull says that some animals are more equal than others. But logical consistency has never been a hallmark of the religiously insane. Suck it, jeebus freak!
Justme,
Do you have any evidence for that?
Last time I went looking I came across a study saying that strongly religious people and strongly atheist people were about equally happy with their lives. It was the people stuck in the middle that were the least happy. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to find that study again.
The anti-islam film “Fitna” has been released on Liveleak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ee4_1206625795
It is quite strong and could be called propaganda. But so what? Of course the politically correct EU condemns it.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/03/28/islam.film/index.html
They do so with the same tired argument of “respect”.
“”The European Union and its member states apply the principle of the freedom of speech which is part of our values and traditions. However, it should be exercised in a spirit of respect for religious and other beliefs and convictions,” the Slovenian presidency said in a statement.”
What? Rational people are supposed to respect idiocy, superstition, and religious fascism?
Alatham, not the article I read, but pretty much the same thing (I think the one I read was on the BBC site but I can’t find it)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3577517.ece
Can’t imagine anything worse than being mistaken for a Christian.
justme,
Thank you.
In response to the study, OK, fair enough. I wish they had paid more attention to the difference between agnostics, atheists, and those who are slightly religious instead of lumping us all in one group.
As far as contrary studies go:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w54q13592vk33038/
This one shows no correlation between religion and happiness amongst German students.
And here’s a good one:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/650q541579041625/
Their conclusion is that the correlation between religion and happiness is quite strong in the USA, but not nearly as strong in Denmark and the Netherlands (i.e. not statistically significant), both of which are far more secular countries.
So it could be that the correlation only appears in the USA because there are more religious people here. In other words, atheists are less happy in the USA because we’re surrounded by idiots, but the same correlation doesn’t show up as much in less religious places.
I wonder what would happen if they did a study like this and compared (for instance) Berkley, CA to Birmingham, AL.
On the other hand, I’m always wary of psychology studies that use self-reported values. How can you define happiness well enough that it can be objectively compared between two different people? I’m not sure that’s even possible.
alatham:
now, I’ve never done a study on this… so its just a hypothesis, but in my private life I’ve seen a tendancy among my christian friends to overstate their happiness.
christian friends who are obviously going through a rough time in their lives (mopey, inactive, complain alot) will still turn around and describe their life in glittery terms at odd intervals (I suspect its a form of “witnessing”/self delusion).
synopsis: if you’ve already deluded yourself into beleiving you’ve got a direct line to an omnipotent best friend who will damn you to hell if you don’t cherish his creation, you’re damn well gonna claim you’re happy.
in fact… most of my christian friends seem to have three settings:
self-righteous anger, glassy-eyed happiness, and absolutely overwhelmed.
what I’m trying to say is that I feel that admitting unhappiness is, to some religious folk, essentially a challenge to their belief that an omnibenevolent god takes a personal interest in their lives.
even in times when their unhappiness is plainly evident to friends and loved ones, they can glaze it over with a simple “well, mysterious ways, praise god, etc”
I guess sometimes ignorance IS bliss.
I think the articles sited support Alatham’s hypothesis:
Flying Weasel also makes an excellent point about the overstated happiness of xians. Where are antidepressants prescribed at the highest rate? Utah! – by a factor of 2. Antidepressant use is certainly an objective measure.
sited -> cited
FlyingWeasel,
Good thoughts. I wonder what psychologists would have to say about the possibility that religious types have simply deluded themselves into happiness.
As you said, sometimes ignorance is bliss.
What,
Now all we have to do is make sure that Utah doesn’t simply have some bizarre laws about anti-depressants. You might be onto something here.
One more interesting thing:
Here is the “Satisfaction with Life Index”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index
And the results of the Eurobarometer polls:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_europe#Religiosity
Take a look at the happiest european countries. The top 10 are Denmark, Switzerland, Austria, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, Ireland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, and Norway. All of these countries fall within the top 20 in the world (with Norway being #19).
Of all these countries only 4 of them have more religious people than agnostics (Ireland, Luxembourg, Austria, and Switzerland). And if we count both agnostics and atheists together Switzerland and Luxembourg both fall off that list.
If religion were really strongly correlated with happiness, wouldn’t we expect to see Turkey, Poland, Greece, or Italy towards the top of that list? Could it be that religion really doesn’t provide more happiness than irreligion?
“I some of what Salvy is smok’n.”
If you asked a world war II vet coming home from winning Japan in 1945, do you think the US is going to be a marjority hispanic by 2020.
(That’s what we have managed to accomplish is very a little time.)
he would of said.
“I (want) some of what Salvy is smok’n !”
Aztlan will rise. I can assure you of this….
Comment from: alatham
I’m always amazed at the lack of some to follow a post…
That comment was referring to Dave…
Phreedm,
I’m never amazed at your failure to admit even the slightest mistake.
Nowhere in that post did you make any mention of referring to Dave. If you want to assert that that was supposed to be obvious then I have to conclude that you’re either an asshole or incompetent.
After all, your post did start with this:
Which means that your post was directed at the community at large.
Let’s dissect your post a little further, shall we?
Ok, there’s no obvious subject here, but the safest assumption is that you were obliquely commenting about Gorbachev. So far, so good.
Here, the word “he” is obviously referring to Gorbachev.
Again, no unambiguous subject, so we should naturally assume that you were carrying on in the same direction. But this sentence makes no sense since you just made a vague comment that could be taken to mean that you believe that Gorbachev never really was an atheist.
Now you’re trying to say that you were referring to Dave, presumably with this paragraph. But nobody in their right mind would agree with that assessment.
If you want to continue to chastise me for not being able to read your god-addled brain then perhaps you should write less ambiguously.
Though personally I think you’re just lying about referring to Dave in order to save face (not that you have any credibility worth saving).
From Bernarda:
“What? Rational people are supposed to respect idiocy, superstition, and religious fascism?”
I once saw a TV interview with a Muslim scholar who called for suppressing anti-Muslim speech by alleging that the American principle of religious freedom required everybody to “respect” all religions.
He was a visiting scholar at the University of Virginia at the time. Thomas Jefferson must have been spinning in his grave.
This is a really common theist distortion. It’s absurd on its face, but when did that ever stop a religionut?
Freedom of thought, of course, means that everybody is free to think whatever they see fit — Xians can think Muslim are infidels, and vice versa — the respect everybody owes is to everyone else’s rights, including the right not to respect others’ opinions.
Duh.
Salvy
You had better hope that it doesn’t or it will become a shit hole like Mexico.
Comment from: alatham
Speaking of credibility…
ala…you’ve missed the entire source of the conversation. No wonder you’re lost…
Comment from: David Silverman
http://www.atheists.org/nogodblog/index.php/2008/03/24/oh_for_crying_out_loud#comments
So again I ask…why can’t Dave provide a single link? Instead his minnions defend his inaction…
Ala…you’re just proving how blind an individual can be if they choose not to see…
Phreedm Wrings!
Phreedm,
You aren’t making any sense. What do you mean by the “source of the thread”?
The only obvious answer is that the source of this thread is Gorbachev reaffirming his atheism. You’re just trying to confuse me so I forget about it and you don’t have to admit your error. Good luck.
Also, don’t accuse me of defending Dave when I did no such thing. I don’t particularly care for many of his comments. We seem to agree on a relatively small amount of things (at least as far as this blog is concerned).
alatham – good job! Your phreakish analysis was spot on – so much so that phreakshow already has to resort to insulting your credibility instead of discussing your arguements. Typical christian hypocrisy – this phreakish clown never disappoints!
Oh, and speaking of credibility: phreakshow, you have none. Are you ever going to tell anyone why you think you are entitled to question others, when you can never respond to anyone else’s questions to you? Don’t you think that’s just a tad rude – especially for someone who is supposedly living a christian life?
How is it that you dare to claim that others are roving how blind an individual can be if they choose not to see, when you yourself choose not to see or respond to any of the challenges to the accuracy and factual basis of your statements? Who do you think you are to behave in such an uncivilized manner?
At least now it’s on record that blasphemous religiously insane phreakshows are actually so hypocritical that they expect to demand answers that they themselves will refuse to give.
phreedm, you seem to be getting flamed well enough without my help, but let me mention that any good political scholar knows that religion really is the opiate of the masses, and that it’s better for the government if the masses are smiling happy drunken little smiles.
Don’t faultt a politician for practicing good politics.