What does this day celebrate? I don’t know, but we’re supposed to drink green beer. Is this one of those religious holidays that Atheists can feel comfortable celebrating because it’s so secularized? Like Valentine’s Day?Or is it just some lame excuse to sell green beer?
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St Patrick’s Day is a celebration of the patron saint of Ireland, St Patrick, who is credited with bringing xianity to the Emerald Isle. England has St George, Scotland has St Andrew, and in Wales we have St David whose day is celebrated as a national bank holiday around 1 March with our national symbols of daffodils and leeks and, of course, copious amounts of alcohol. Thanks to the great number of Irish who came to America during the potato famine we now celebrate St Patrick’s day, and Halloween, here in the USA.
Mostly it’s just an excuse to get drunk now.
?ire go br?ch! (Ireland Forever! in Gaelic)
Cymru am byth! (Wales forever! in Welsh)
Is there a good excuse to sell green beer?
St. Patrick’s Day is one of the more secular formerly-religious holidays, as Americans only see it as a celebration of Ireland, but I still am not comfortable with the fact that it was founded to celebrate St. Patrick, the man who drove the “snakes” (Druids) out of Ireland and helped Christianise the country. Basically, he was just another Columbus — he abolished the Pagan religion and native customs and turned Ireland into another Catholic European country.
(I know many people — mostly Neo-Pagans — who say St. Patrick murdered the Druids, but have found no evidence backing that up.)
This day is celebrated in commemoration of the man who managed to kill so many Druids that Christianity was able to take over as the main religion in Ireland. YAY! The RCC said, “Look what a good Christian Patrick was, killing all those pagans! Let’s make him a Saint!” Bloodlust! YAY! Murder of innocents!YAY! More gold for Rome! YAY!
I just don’t know how the world ever got along before the Christian church developed to direct everyone about who should be killed. Imagine all the people we’d have to put up with if the church hadn’t relived us of all those bothersome folk.
Can you imagine how different the world would be if xianity had never become dominate in Europe, thanks to Emperor Charlemagne, and the old pagan religions had persisted? I don’t know if the world would be a better place but certainly a very different one.
F Culture
especially when it begins with Saint
I agree with S.Mergen. Patty’s just another Columbus. I feel terrible having acknowledged this day by wearing green as a child. Where did the pinch-if-not-wearing-green thing come from?
Even when I was a child I refused to wear green on St. Patrick’s Day. Being neither Irish, nor Catholic, I see it as wholly silly for me to do so. I will occasionally join a toast in honor of Ireland, but that is about as far as it goes.
As far as the druid thing goes, I couldn’t find much evidence aside from conjecture that A) St. Patrick rid Ireland of snakes (which it never had) and B) therefore, “Snakes” must refer to Druids whom he supposedly killed…
I mean seriously? The only mention I found on the old intertron came from websites that were either wholly Xtian apologists praising St Patrick, or from lame neo-pagan sites all of whom have the term “crystal” in some conspicuous part of their name. Like I am obliged to believe either…
Whatever. I guess if it makes the Irish happy, live and let live say I.
Who is to say that a pagan Europe would have been better than a xian Europe? The Celts practised ritual human sacrifice and tribal warfare and were not the peacful nature worshipping hippies that modern neopagans would like us to believe. Maybe it was a lesser of two evils to have the “snakes” driven from Ireland.
While it’s true that the Celts were very savage, the druids appear to have been well educated people. I can imagine that the world would have turned out quite similar but everything would have a Celtic flavor rather than a Roman one.
On Friday, I ate corned beef, cabbage, those little red potatoes and, carrots. Topped off with lots of yummy dark beer. No christians were celebrated during the consumption of these goodies. I don’t much care which day I have CB&C as long as;
I hope the christians will stop murdering people and that the christians stop imitating the breeding habits of rabbits. You christians could become human if you tried.
It is much more commonly observed in America than it is in England. No one even mentions it here, no one wears green. Ireland is another story.
That is one of the things I like about England. Everyone pretty much goes their own way on the religion question, in politics, etc.. As I have observed before, there is no separation of church and state here, but the outcome is pretty much the same. Whereas in America there is a constitutionally mandated separation that some scary people are trying to circumvent.
Dave
How about a thread on the subject “How the Xianity Destroyed our Economy”?
I got good and waisted!
Comment from: alexatheist
Who is to say that a pagan Europe would have been better than a xian Europe? The Celts practised ritual human sacrifice and tribal warfare and were not the peacful nature worshipping hippies that modern neopagans would like us to believe. Maybe it was a lesser of two evils to have the “snakes” driven from Ireland.
Good point. Although history suggests that all religions of the time were pretty violent. The christian cultists had ritual cannibalism at the center of their worship, and even today one of their main symbols is a visual representation of a human being tortured to death. And any celtic tribal wars would have been overshadowed by the Crusades in comparison.
I’m not really sure if the Celts and/or the Druids hoarded information as much as the christians, either. Was it a capital offense to be able to read if you weren’t the right sort of people, the way it was if you were christian?
I’ve never celebrated this holiday much – I’m not Irish, and I can’t stand green. I just drank standard beer colored beer. But I think you might be on to something with regards to the acceptability of celebrating this (originally religious – as they all were originally) holiday amongst the non-religious: tying major league specialty alcohol consumption to the celebration makes it more likely to be celebrated by more than just the religiously insane.
Agnosticat, “While it’s true that the Celts were very savage”.
What evidence do you have of that? From what I have read, the Celts had a very developed culture.
http://letterstogod-thegreat1906.blogspot.com/
Some of the comments are getting a bit too serious. I am a life long atheist and think drinking a little green beer, putting out some cookies out on Christmas eve or looking for some hidden eggs has long been secularized. Jesus Christ, lighten up a bit and enjoy, or soon I won’t even be able to use this epithet.
The GJA
I prefer Gawd damn it.
Bernada,
They were highly developed in many ways but they did also practice human sacrifice as we’ve discovered from the corpses retrieved from bogs. That’s what I meant by “savage.” I suppose I used the term to compare it to our more “humane” culture (that almost makes me want to laugh). I could argue that human sacrifice made sense to them and was not as cruel as we think.
Another disguised Catholic/Vatican holiday being pushed on America with beer, drunkenness and green stuff under the guise of Irish culture.
The Catholic Saint Patrick was an Englishman, who was captured by Irish pirates, sold into slavery, and then escaped his Irish masters/captors only to return as a priest on a holy mission to wipe out the religions of Ireland by converting the “godless savages” of Ireland, using the three leaf clover to show them how Xians could have three gods in one.
This Catholic/Vatican holiday is now being pushed by beer corporations to be made into a US holiday:
http://www.proposition317.com/
index.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/
offbeat/2008/02/guinness_lobbies_for_st_patric_1.html
And the dumb Irish who actually celebrate this Vatican holiday commemorating the religious imperialism of an Englishman priest are out getting drunk while their country is still under the military occupation of the British Empire.
The Irony and stupidity is staggering.
And is this blog entry all we can expect from American Atheists? Not even a press release condemning a subversive and invasive Vatican/Catholic holiday being pushed onto dumb Americans swayed by a socially embraced excuse to get drunk?
What other religion or religious holiday uses binging on alcohol as a tool to infiltrate a society to accept and embrace its holiday(s)?
Looks like AA has cowered once again to the emotions of the dumb and ignorant.
I am constantly amazed when I wander over to visit this little corner of the web. You people have nothing to offer other than foul mouths and hatred. Your little club has no positive purpose. It?s sole existence, as demonstrated by your comments here and actions in the world at large, is destruction. If your world view is so enlightened, so elevated, so inspiring shut up and lead by example. See who follows along, it?s what the Soviets did.
Someone new for you to hate.
http://johncwright.livejournal.com/117818.html
I’ve got Mary, Mother of Jesus, on a biscuit. Interested?
Aside from that small bit of humor, I’d like to note that by completely ignoring the topic of this thread, St. Patrick’s Day, to post the above comment, you are engaging in precisely the same behavior you critique. Of Hippogryphs and Theocracy, you know.
Susan,
I don’t understand how you came to this conclusion. Can you please explain?
If it’s constructive discourse you’re looking for, you should expect to be disappointed if you show up and start insulting us immediately. Ask an honest question and you’ll get an honest answer from most of us. I obviously cannot speak for all of the community.
Again, I have to say I’m confused. Are you saying that atheism promotes destruction? If you study the single idea behind atheism, I think you’ll find that atheism doesn’t promote anything.
If you’re trying to claim that atheism ultimately leads to destruction, I think you should approach this problem from a different angle. In my studying of history, I’ve found that both atheists and theists have been responsible for horrible acts. I’ve always been surprised when people blame atheism for these acts though, since atheism is not a good predictor of immorality. In my experience, if you look at Authoritarianism vs. Anti-authoritarianism you find a much better predictor of immorality. As far as I know, authoritarians have been behind every major act of destruction in history.
It’s authoritarianism you have to worry about, not atheism. It’s sad that atheists are not immune to authoritarianism, but it’s terrifying that authoritarianism is at the core of many major religions.
If theists would stop retarding science and forcing their views on people then maybe we could get started doing that.
Further, why do you think we atheists believe that atheism leads to an enlightened world view? Atheism is merely the disbelief in deities, it is not a philosophy, world view, or set of morals. Nor is it a belief or claim.
There is only one possible way to attack atheism, show evidence of a deity. Can you do that? Any other critique will fall flat.
The vast majority of soviets did not “follow along.” They were victims of Authoritarian Communism which you can attach to atheism.
Just because some atheists are horrible people does not mean that atheism was the cause of their horrible behavior. After all, correlation does not equal causation.
Why are we supposed to hate this guy? I’ll admit, I’m not very good at hatred. I guess I’m not a very good atheist, am I?
dammit, major typo
This should read: “They were victims of Authoritarian Communism which you cannot attach to atheism.”