That’s the question posed by the President of American Atheists Ellen Johnson on our web site www.atheists.org. Should we vote for the least undesirable candidate, even though NONE of them have reached out to the secular community — even in the slightest? Or should we not vote at all?I’m not going to chime in here — yet. I’ll let you do it. Click the link, watch the video, and post your comments here.
I was astounded, and it’s staggaring to hear someone supposedly who cares about the Constituion and our Bill of Rights, science, education, the separation of church and state, etc. actually tell people not to vote! Are these things not important anymore? Is the Supreme Court ruling as a corporate theocracy not important enough to vote? Is having the FDA rule with science and not religon, and putting actual qualified people in these powerful positions not something atheists are interested in?
I guess I’m a differnt kind of athesit then, because I’ve even noticed the sidebar ads on the main website here, and to me as an atheist I have to question what’s going on. One ad is for Ben Stein’s pro-intelligence design film which shows how awful scientists are as they only allow Darwin’s Scientific Theory of Evolution to be taught in schools. And then there was what I thought would be a fun silly quiz about how much of an atheist I was, so I clicked on the link and it’s to a site called mary.com–a religous dating service! Plus I’ve noticed a lot of people here seem to support putting men in power who are anti-women, anti-gay, anti-science and very pro-war and pro-corporatism. So while I guess we may have being non-theist in common, we certainly don’t seem to have much of anything else, which to me is kinda sad and unexpected.
Oh, and to the jerk who called Hillary “the bitch”, thanks for the misogny. How new and clever of you!It’s interesting because Hillary, along with two other Women Senator’s are the only reason I now have access to over-the-counter Emergency Contraception (although a person can deny me buying it because of their religon, but that’s another issue altogether). Senator Hillary forced the FDA to put science over religion. And that’s real life in real time that affects millions of women (myself included) in this Country. So believe me, while I will obvioulsy vote for Obama if he wins the nomination, I’m hoping it will be Hillary. Not because she’s a woman, but because I am!
I also wonder if you’re a “libertarian”. Which seems to come in two veins (anarchists and neo-cons too scared to admit that’s what they are) and these roads of libertarianism all lead to the same disaster–some form of dictatorship (whether through theocracy or corporate fascism). In times of crisis and chaos, fear and confusion, people will always look towards a leader to tell them what to do and to show them the way out and give them some semblance of control. Unfortunately those leaders seldom seem to hold progressive liberal democratic ideals.
With all that the Bush regime has done to our Country, I don’t believe electing another republican who’s in lock-step with Bush and the religous-right is what’s best for me and the rest of our Country. So I hope even those who are atheists will vote. Although as I noticed a lot of people here seem to be McCain supporters, and that’s just too scary for me to think about right now.
Vote
and if you really think there is no one to vote for…
Run
The ballots in every state in November will have much more on them than just the presidential candidates. There will be local elections and initiatives, school board seats, judges, fundings, etc.
These may not affect atheists much as a whole, but where ever you live they will affect you.
To not vote at all is to abdicate any personal responsibility for the results. If you didn’t fight against what you believed was wrong then you have no right to complain when the results adversely affect you.
Ellen espouses an irresponsible position.
VOTE! It does count. There’s always more at stake than you think.
Hi everybody I just returned from vacation and I feel grrrrrrrrrrrreat!
Diane,
The sidebar ads are not controlled by this website. It is google adsense and it “senses” what sort of ads based on the words used on the blog. Obviously it is highly flawed.
Atheists are very different than one another and we all have a wide range of opinions. I would say what we share in common is intelligence, which makes for some great conversation. Don’t judge people so quickly because they do not agree with you politically.
As for libertarians, I don’t think you have a good grasp of what it means. I would point you to a video series on youtube called the esoteric agenda. http://youtube.com/watch?v=t9rLGGjJt9I
I, as a female, am proud to see a female run for president but I cannot vote for her because I don’t want my wages garnished to pay a corporation for a product (health insurance). It is unconstitutional to give my money to a for-profit private company instead of pooling our money and just covering everyone under medicaid-care.
Hillary is my choice but at this point I question that she can get the nomination.
You made some good points, Diane, and thanks for calling the jerk who called Hillary a “bitch” a jerk. Have you read A Woman In Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton by Carl Bernstein. This book really gives good insight into her character. She is a woman possessed of good decent qualites and blessed with smarts. She is my choice above all others but barring a miracle I don’t think she will be on the ballot.
I do not like McCain or Obama. It will be a hard choice and I may have to take a barf bag to the polls, but *I WILL VOTE*.
And let me say how impressed I am that as a group we seem to be united on the issue of voting or not voting. In a country where so many fail to vote I think this speaks extremely well for us as a group.
Glad to have you back dawnisis. Wondered what had happened to you.
I don’t get what you mean by:
“It is unconstitutional to give my money to a for-profit private company instead of pooling our money and just covering everyone under medicaid-care.”
Medicare and Medicaid are responsible for a lot of the problems we have with health care costs today. The fact is that there are no good answers to the health care problem.
I wouldn’t worry about Hillary’s health care plan causing your wages to be garnished to pay a corporation for health care. All politicians tell us what they are going to do, but it is little more than talk to get elected. Obama says his plan is to REDUCE health care costs so that everybody can afford health care. I about died laughing at that one and notice he hasn’t clued us in on exactly how this can be accomplished.
Remember, no matter who says what a universal health care plan has to be paid for somehow and the money just isn’t there. So roll with the talk and take it for what it is. Example: Jimmy Carter told us he was going to end world hunger. That doesn’t seem to have happened just like universal health care has little chance of happening.
This is a joke. Unfortunately it is pretty close to the truth:
While walking down the street a US senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies.
His soul arrives in heaven and he is met by St. Peter at the entrance.
“Welcome to heaven,” says St. Peter. “Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we’re not sure what to do with you.”
“No problem, just let me in,” says the senator.
“Well, I’d like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we’ll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you
can choose where to spend eternity.”
“Really, I’ve made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,” says the senator.
“I’m sorry, but we have our rules.”
And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse
and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.
Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.
They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.
Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.
Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises…
The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St Peter is waiting for him.
“Now it’s time to visit heaven.”
So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing their harps, but actually it’s a little boring.
When the 24 hours have gone by St. Peter returns. “Well, then,” he says to the senator, “you’ve spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.”
The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: “Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell.”
So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
Now the doors of the elevator open and he’s in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.
He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.
The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder.
“I don’t understand,” stammers the senator. “Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there’s just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?”
The devil looks at him, smiles.
“Yesterday we were campaigning……
Today you voted.”
Sorry Ellen, but abdicating my right to vote in either the primary or November just turns over my power to those who ARE recognized by the politicians. So I will use my clout to vote for the person I think will best serve this country and who, hopefully would not be the choice of the religious right.
Thanks Ellen but I disagree. My vote doesn’t really count that much because I live in Texas. Maybe in the primary right now between and Hillary and Barrack it would but next November a Republican will carry Texas so my vote goes out as a populous vote as far as being counted. Only two things matters to most Texans, a 1-christian and 2-conservative candidate. In other words Huckabee is their man and McCain knows it.
I will vote.
Writing in FSM would be a better choice than not voting or voting for a Republican within the next few years, the Republicans absolutely must change their platform before I will vote for them. Republicans produced the worst President in the history of the United States, their platform is the same and the goals are the same. John McCain would be almost the same as reelecting George of the jungle.
I think there are a significant number of people who believe Republicans offer fiscal restraint and favor smaller government expenditures, however, if you check the history it is the Republicans that produce the largest deficits.
There could at some future time be a worthwhile Republican presidential candidate but, not this year.
Back to the ‘not voting’ issue, you would need to explain how you would be separated from the christians who have called their sheep not to vote. I won’t risk being counted as one of the christians by being lumped into that group. Write in FSM if you like but do vote, at least to avoid being counted as a non-voting christian.
Also as anadrol commented in the “Darwin Day in Cincinatti!” topic:
Christians by their numbers, can make a statement by not voting. I don’t think non-theists can do that effectively.
I became a citizen of this country 26 years ago so that I could vote, and I intend to continue to do so (even though no presidential candidate I have voted for has ever won, so far). I was shocked and disappointed to hear Ellen Johnson’s comments. Does she think she is somehow punishing the candidates by withholding her vote? Does she honestly think they even know about her childish little temper tantrum?
It would take a huge, organized, highly-committed coalition of nonbelievers (who all agreed with one another – good luck with that) to get even the slightest attention from political candidates. I don’t see that organization anywhere. I do my little bit by being an AA member, AU member, writing occasional letters to the editor, etc., but it’s a drop in the bucket. American Atheists is one of the most under-the-radar organizations I’ve ever seen – I’m sure McCain, Clinton, and Obama neither know nor care about what the president of American Atheists thinks or whether she is going to vote. And what ever happened to GAMPAC? Is everyone just supposed to hold their breath and turn blue until an atheist runs for president?
Get real. VOTE VOTE VOTE
This “don’t vote” thing reminds me of the time ‘Team I Believe’ declared they were going to boycott the Rational Responders website.
I think that one of the most important issues is to counter the conservative slide of the Supreme Court. For that reason, I will support whatever Democrat wins the primary, ignoring their stupid religious views.
I was leaning toward Hillary Clinton, but sadly have become convinced that electing her would amount to electing Bill Clinton again. Wouldn’t be my first choice! So, I think I will vote for Obama in the primary. His goals of getting out of Iraq, investing in green industries, and repairing our decaying infrastructures resonate with me.
McCain supports overturning Roe vs. Wade and has suggested staying in Iraq for 100 years. I don’t think so. Either Obama or Clinton would be a far wiser choice, IMO.
GF&G,
Thanks for the wb.
Regarding:
I agree with this entirely. I have contemplated the health insurance issue until I can no longer stand to think about it. I have changed my position 100% and I no longer believe the government should have any role in providing such “insurance” whether private or government run.
We are all responsible for our own lives and health. The government should have no role in deciding or forcing us into any “system”.
I live under a system that not only rejects what I believe, but tries to vilify what I believe.
The only thing worse would be to live under a system that punishes (jail, torture, death) me for what I believe.
Yes, I’ll vote.
But Obama has reached out to secularists. He’s not perfect — for example, I wish he were in favor of gay marriage instead of just civil unions legally equivalent to marriage — but he’s made it clear that the state should be neutral on matters of religion, and he’s made it clear that atheists should be considered equal partners in American society along with religious people. That’s more than I’ve heard from Hillary or McCain.
Yes, he could be more explicit about how he will support and enforce the provisions of the Constitution that matter the most. But refusing to vote at all is just petulant stupidity (for reasons others have elaborated above), and pretending that no candidate has reached out to the secular community is quite simply a lie.
But here’s the thing: even if no candidate had reached out to secularists, we still have to remember that the people we elect this year will shape the social and legal battlefield for years to come. If you can’t vote for a candidate that represents a victory this year, then you can still vote to tilt society a little bit more in our favor in the years to come.
So get out and vote, and don’t be a twit.
Careful! Your fear of the fairer sex is showing.
Nevertheless, IMHO this is one of the most exciting democratic races I’ve witnessed in my lifetime. I think either Obama or Hillary will do their best to lead us away from the republician mess we’re in (not sure either will succeed), but at least we got real canidates this time, not a poser walking around stiffly carrying a gun. I wish Edwards would not have given up so soon. I liked him too.
I watched Hillary today in Youngstown. What a speech! If I were a cheerleader I would’ve waved my Pompoms at her.
A black man and a woman. Isn’t it great to be an American in 2008!
Perhaps we should vote for Huckabee, leave the country, then wait till America comes to her senses. It would be playing with fire, I know, but the scenario has a bit of poetic justice.
I’d love to comment on our libertarian friends who say they will vote for Ron Paul. Go ahead. It’ll be the same as voting for no one.
In case any of you care, none of you will vote for President because the United States doesn’t vote for President. We vote for Electors who choose the President.
I am in the same position I am always in on the general election for President. I have no candidate. Barry is against Medicare for All health insurance. Hill will never get if for us. I believe the pundits who say she is in the back pocket of the hospitals and health insurance lobbyists who are helping to fund her election and I am still angry over her stabbing the effort to death back in 1993.
But to get back to our friends here in this blog who don’t like paying taxes and having a government (the libertarians).
I want to wish all of you the best of luck with that position. Let’s see. First we close the IRS and stop taxation in America. The next day we close all the prisons and release all the murders, rapists, kidnapper, and thieves. Oh boy are we gonna have fun then.
The next day we close down every US military base in the world. I am gonna feel real sorry for all those soldiers we leave deserted in all those countries. I guess we can let them sell their assigned equipment to live on until they find new jobs or use the proceeds to travel home.
I wonder who will be first to come in and take over our country when we no longer have any military to stop them?
I guess lot’s of people are going to die when there is no one to pay for all those medical bills that all those retirees keep racking up and there is no Medicare. Also all those little children who won’t be getting any more Medicaid will probably be in a lot of trouble. Oh well.
Of course, we won’t have to worry about the problems of what to teach in public schools. There won’t be any public schools. So the over all majority will be ignorant.
Yea, I’m getting to like this new libertarian world the Ron Paultards have in mind. I get to smoke, snort, shoot, or eat any damn thing I want and then go out and rape or kill or steal anything I feel like so I can buy more shit. Yea, I’m gonna vote. I’m gonna vote for John Galt for Dictator for Life.
NOT
http://www.physorg.com/news122212997.html
Really! Like what?
Peter, please. I know we don’t have to tell you what a Straw Man is, because you’ve got it down pat.
Wrong. The people have already spoken and have said that all individuals should have access to the ERs of America. There is absolutely no significant political will to ever remove this huge constraint from the health care “problem”. Most of these folks are in the ER because emergent and very expensive care is needed. Of course they can’t pay for the care and the costs get passed on to you. You are paying for the care of others whether your ideology likes it or not and this will not end.
As for Ellen, she doesn’t quite get that the secular problem is one of organization. Atheists know this all too well.
Sure, secularists account for more as a single group than many of these other groups. But the difference is that wherever a politician goes, he/she can find those other groups all organized and ready to listen. Religious folks in one room. Check. Black religious folks in one room. Double Check.
For politicians, time and money are everything. They’ve got to get the most bang for the buck, and secularists don’t deliver.
It’s not their fault, it’s ours.
Here’s Ellen, trying to get secularists not to vote on an atheists web site. How many non-atheists secularists just heard that message?
Fucking idiot.
I was going to merely dismiss that quote as idiocy and leave it with a return volley of ad hominem. But I won’t.
Libertarians don’t want to end all of the laws, we want to get rid of the idiotic laws that do nothing but cost the taxpayer money. We also believe that the actual crimes (like the ones you enumerated, rape, murder, theft) should be punished and far more severely. If we’re not spending all of this money giving drug users free housing for life (prison) we can use it locking up the serious threats to society for longer. I don’t want murderers, rapists, and thieves on the streets any more than you do. In fact, I want them off the streets for far longer than you do.
If you continue to support anti-drug laws, have fun with it. You are the reason that people that commit real crimes are getting out of prison before their sentences are up. You are the reason that some states actually had to pass laws to require these offenders to serve at least 80% of their sentences. You’re leaving our prisons filled with people whose only crime is against the cells in their own bodies, a choice they can make with or without your laws and upon which your laws have no effect.
The only way to reach a solution is to understand the problem.
What are the most common, most expensive, easiest to aviod, etc. maladies to pass through the ER?
Exactly. And not many atheists heard it, either.
wow great posts diane and McPlasticMan
I have allot of respect for Ellen but I think she should reconsider her position……
Dirty illeagle Mexicans without insurance.