I’m stepping away from my computer for a few hours, but it looks like Clinton is really lagging in polls in NH. Of course, we have no official stake, but let’s just say I still hope there’s no magic in the underwear.
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ooo, that was quick. I found a link to an article describing a similar study by the NHTSA.
http://www.swedish.org/17471.cfm
They come up with similar numbers.
A quote from The Onion in regards to John Crazy-Talk’n McCain.
“While I agree with much of his policies, I can’t, with clear conscience, condone his age.”
alatham and KIP
On Seatbelts
A looong time ago, when the seat belt law was first being enforced in my area, I was at a Q&A session, can’t recall the particulars. It was understood that the driver was responsible for any minor children being transported, to make sure they were properly secured in their safety seats or buckled up. But what if an adult in the car refused to wear a seat belt? The state trooper said the driver would also be held responsible for that person too.
I don’t know if this was legally correct, or if it would hold up, but I don’t start my car unless everyone is buckled up. If someone wants to take extra risks with their life in their own car, that’s their prerogative, but I’m not going to 1) let them take the risk while I’m driving, 2) be at greater risk myself (because of the point alatham makes about projectiles) or 3)get ticketed over someone’s pig-headedness.
Agreed.
Besides, if its the driver who refuses to buckle up, I would recommend you reconsider riding with him. His sense of judgement is obviously lacking.
Only a moron wouldn’t buckle a seat belt in a moving vehicle…
It’s a sad state of affairs when a law has to be passed on commonsense.
As for vaccinations, I am a bit more sceptical. I have no kids so I never researched them thoroughly and I was too little to know what was going on when I got them, but if anyone tried to force me today it better be absolutely necessary and safe.
Let’s not forget that abortion WOULDN’T EVEN BE AN ISSUE if we had effective sex education and readily availabe birth control (of course, I suppose condoms being available anywhere you find a public bathroom is ‘readily available’; better hope you have a few quarters).
the best way to reduce abortion is to reduce out of wedlock conception.we need to restore a sense of honor in our young men that if you knock up a woman you step up to the plate.any man that doesn’t should be castrated and don’t give me any of that liberal crap about human rights that unborn child has human rights too like the right to live.
Please explain how ’stepping up to the plate’ entails perogatory ‘wedlock’.
Please give an operative definition for what is ‘human’ in the phrase ‘human rights’.
I’d appreciate not being labeled except for the one label I choose for myself: atheist.
I’ve given my reason for pro-choice, perhaps you’d to like establish a position so we can discuss our difference of opinion.
You’re statement infers that the main reason abortion occurs is because the father is reluctant to be one. I’d like some statistics to back that up.
I’d complain about you calling my position ‘crap’, but then I’d sound like a theist, which isn’t a compliment at all. (huzzah! Two points. One for pointing out your insult without being offended or petulant, and two for throwing an insult phreedm’s way)
’sense of honor’? While quaint, honor is about as close to responsibility as a knight in shining armor to reality. I don’t act out of honor, but out of respect. ‘Honor’ seems a little self-serving to me.
kip
i wasn’t addressing you personally i was talking about the culture of today.i do believe that we do have a lot of chickenshit men today.you think i’m some dumbass living in the past thats okay you have a right to your opinion my opinion is if your man enough to make that baby your man to support it to be there for that woman as she tries to decide what to do.
Just to expand on the honor bit. To me, a sense of honor implies you’re in love with your own virtuosity. That’s what I meant by self-serving. I’d appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
Men, myself included for those who ‘may’ have been wondering, are people too. Besides, I take the position ‘if you’re stupid (foolish, ignorant, etc) enough not to take precautions…’
I don’t think ‘quaint’ has the meaning I intend. I was trying to say that there are better reasons to be a father than simply ‘honor’.
Oh, I know. I was simply saying that applying lables to an idea isn’t usually necessary. However, if I say something stupid, I would much prefer you say so than aviod offense.
kip
it is self-serving that does not make it a bad thing.it is not a vice to want to be well thought of by your fellow man .having self-respect on the basis of honorable conduct is not unreasonable and why not take satisfaction in resisting the dark impulses of human nature.i support keeping abortion legal but the drive to legalize abortion was never meant to result in the high rate of abortion we have.
kip
you are far from stupid and i agree there are better reasons for being a father.
KIP
The word “honor” really bothers me as well. Mix it with a little “pride” and I believe you get sheep.
I am against seat belt laws. People don’t need the state to be their nanny or what have you. Seat belt laws are no protection at all for anyone, they are merely used to generate revenue. People don’t wear seat belts because the law tells them to, they do it because they have enough intelligence to realize that the momentum of a human body at the time of impact is equal to the speed they were going before the impact. Couple this with the fact that air bags do not work as intended unless used with a seat belt (the air bag can kill you) and it shouldn’t take anyone with much more than a room-temperature IQ to figure it out.
Any kid that’s ever played with a slingshot has enough sense to know how this works.
As far as forced vaccination, yes, I do support it – that or being forced to live in a camp outside of society.
I don’t care if they kill themselves by refusing to vaccinate – that’s their choice – but I do care that their bodies are incubators for super bugs that can kill me despite having been vaccinated. I’m all about personal responsibility, not about others taking responsibility for my health into their own hands because they’re stupid.
Dawnisis,
A more common problem is that of ectopic pregnancies. These need to be terminated because they endanger the life of the mother and her ability to have children in the future. This doesn’t faze the faithers though, they don’t believe women should have rights (their Babble says so, of course). Their sole interest is the “rights” that a father has.
Apparently sticking a key in the ignition once or twice transfers ownership of the car and everything in it to the key-holder.
alatham,
It’s an entirely pointless law and designed purely as a tax – they give you tickets. If you’re the driver, refuse to drive until seat belts are on. Pull over if anyone removes theirs. If you’re a passenger, refuse to ride in a car where the other passengers won’t wear a seat belt.
My brother refused to wear a seat belt for quite a while on principle (I love my brother, but I am not sure what point his corpse would prove). He did when he was in my car – I mad e it very clear that we weren’t going anywhere until he buckled up. He’d roll his eyes, but he’d do it. A simple solution that didn’t require a badge or a gun or a ticket book.
You are in control of your choices. It’s all about personal responsibility – take it.
karen,
This is the sole exception in my mind, though we still don’t require a seat belt law for this. All we require is that the police arrest parents that refuse to properly restrain their children and charge them with child endangerment. This is a serious offense and requires an actual punishment, not a ticket that will be shrugged off and ignored (or weaseled out of in traffic court).
The Libertarian in me says legalize everything you can and punish harshly what remains illegal. An example: Don’t punish someone for buying weed and smoking it – throw them in jail for far longer for stealing to support their habit. The “war on drugs” fills our jails and prisons with people that have committed no crime against anyone and lets the truly culpable go free before their sentences are up.
atomic:
I agree with this 100%. To many people who are in jail are there for nonviolent crimes like drug addiction.
Nothing in the “war on drugs” made one bit of difference except to punish people who need counseling and medication.
The war on drugs has kept our police from focusing on real criminals. From where I sit the #1 priority of police is giving out traffic tickets and making money with only a small fraction of police being used to investigate real crime.
I ,for one, am ashamed about our prisons, yet no one ever mentions it as an issue. Out of sight, out of mind.
Only violent offenders should be behind bars and they should be treated and counseled because something is very wrong with them or they wouldn’t be there in the first place.
Prison only makes people worse and then they let those violent people right back out without any help just a huge dose of punishment.
AT,
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments in your last paragraph. Useless laws hurt us.
That said, I still think it needs to be illegal not to wear a seatbelt.
This isn’t entirely true. Drivers have a lot of liability when they take control of a car. If a passenger is found to be not wearing their seat belt in an accident the driver’s liability for their injuries is decreased because their injuries are partly their own fault. As of now, this is clear cut because it’s illegal to ride without a seat belt. If we make it legal to do so then we’ll have to re-write the liability laws. If you want to argue that we should go ahead and change the liability laws then I can see your point.
I feel it’s far too easy for people (especially in the back seat) to simply remove their belts once the car starts moving. A seemingly easy solution to that is to install sensors that tell the driver who isn’t wearing their belt, but even those would not be hard to trick.
This is a sticky situation. I want people to have their personal freedoms, but I also want someone punished if they were in a collision with me and break my neck because they weren’t wearing a belt (without my knowledge).
Obviously I’m biased here because I have an understanding of physics and I don’t find seat belts to be uncomfortable in the least (also I’m healthily paranoid). I think my safety trumps their mild discomfort.
AT,
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments in your last paragraph. Useless laws hurt us.
That said, I still think it needs to be illegal not to wear a seatbelt.
This isn’t entirely true. Drivers have a lot of liability when they take control of a car. If a passenger is found to be not wearing their seat belt in an accident the driver’s liability for their injuries is decreased because their injuries are partly their own fault. As of now, this is clear cut because it’s illegal to ride without a seat belt. If we make it legal to do so then we’ll have to re-write the liability laws. If you want to argue that we should go ahead and change the liability laws then I can see your point.
I feel it’s far too easy for people (especially in the back seat) to simply remove their belts once the car starts moving. A seemingly easy solution to that is to install sensors that tell the driver who isn’t wearing their belt, but even those would not be hard to trick.
This is a sticky situation. I want people to have their personal freedoms, but I also want someone punished if they were in a collision with me and break my neck because they weren’t wearing a belt (without my knowledge).
Obviously I’m biased here because I have an understanding of physics and I don’t find seat belts to be uncomfortable in the least (also I’m healthily paranoid). I think my safety trumps their mild discomfort.
Maybe the seat-belts should lock as soon as the gear is shifted into drive. That would be interesting.
Yet another example of phreedm’s insistance of literalism.
Consider the following:
Does human define “what am *I*”, or do *I* define “what is human”?
AT,
Amen.
The “War on Drugs” should be a public health issue, not a criminal one.
And regarding seatbelt laws, I’m with AT on this one.
I could care less if others don’t wear their seatbelts. If they want to risk a higher likelihood of injury or fatality in their own automobile, it?s their right. But if they’re in my car, they’re wearing them.
And by the way, both of my cars let me know if someone is not wearing their seat belt ? so they can?t get away with covertly unbuckling when they?re in my car.