Thanks for all the feedback folks! OK. Let’s talk about the Jews. Here’s the top five things they do to piss me off!5) They have become adept at sitting on the sidelines while Christians and Moslems make the news. As a result, I have little to complain about so people think I’m easy on them. I’m not. I’m just not seeing them blow up any buildings or push Judaism on school kids. They don’t go door-to-door, and they don’t think their garments have magic powers. Old bloggers may remember my article in the USA Today trashing Senator Lieberman when he “got Judaism” to run for VP.4) But then there are exceptions to the rule. Jews often pick the wrong side politically, allying themselves with Christians instead of Atheists, because they think the Christians are somehow “closer” to them than Atheists are. That’s stupid. How many times have the Christians betrayed the Jews? Do they really think this time will be different? Do they really think that Christian prayers are NOT the next step after “moments of silence” in public schools? Do the Jews really think they are NOT being used by the Christian Right to gain political power, with the real intent to eventually “Save the Jews” once Christian power is more solidified? Duh!3) And let’s talk a bit about Israel. I frankly admit a lack of expertise (interest)here, but the Israeli Jews have used human shields by moving settlers (including women and children) into disputed zones (Gaza), and innocents have died — so Israel can fight with Moslems over a tiny piece of land. That’s deplorable.2) Jews in America tend to support Israel unconditionally, like the Catholics support the Vatican. That’s wrong. Israel has done some really bad things, and the Jews from America should be louder in disagreement. Zionism is a political view (one to which I do not adhere), but blind faith to Israel is just as wrong as blind faith to the Vatican, and just as unpatriotic. Israel is NOT the Jewish mother country. It’s just a country where the state-church is Judaism. American Jews need to be American first. I DO believe that a democratic non-Muslim country in the middle of the Middle-East is good for America, but I don’t think anyone should take that to the extreme of hard-core Zionism.1) Here’s my big beef with the Jews — many of them are Atheists. The problem is they CALL themselves Jews when asked about their religious beliefs (essentially lying). I’ve spoken to liberal Jewish audiences before and said the same thing very clearly: calling yourself Jewish when you are an Atheist hurts the country. If you believe in the Jewish GOD, then that’s one thing. but if you’re a Jewish Atheist — a cultural Jew — then call yourself an Atheist when asked. It’s the correct answer.Now please don’t get off on the whole Jewish Atheist thing being self-defeating. It’s not. Judaism is BOTH a religion and a culture (have you ever heard of Christian food?) and these parts are easily separable. Our movement is filled with Jewish Atheists, and yes I wonder often if as a result we as a movement are softer on the Jews. I don’t think so — just as I don’t think we are softer on Buddhists or Hindus. They are simply doing a lot less to cause problems here in America, other than being compliant to the problem causers.Oh and one more thing. The rumor is that Jews (religious and cultural) control the diamond, entertainment, political, and banking industry. So where’s my check?
And if I am not mistaken we supplied saddam with those chemical weapons.
And if that’s true then the U.S. is actually the one resonsible for gassing of the kurds.
Whatever you wanna believe is fine by me; however, just remember this on your deathbed:
Almighty God (Christ) looks at how well you lived thy Finite Existence before you perished and, thus, Judges you on how well you loved one another. As we all know, love is the fulfillment of the Law… and you must believe, too. Don’t worry about it, friend. There will come a time when the WHOLE, ENTIRE, WORLD will receive a Warning from Heaven Above. Then, you must decide if you enjoy your athiesm so much, you’d reeelly like burning in the Abyss for eternity OR repent and have faith. Bingo! You ascend rather than descend after you die.
Thus, what will we do in Heaven during our lengthy eternity, rather than sit on a cloud playing the harp? How boring. Yawn. Rather, you may do anything and everything. I know what I’m gunna do: plant trees, water’m, watch’m grow in a day, be at Her mansion for a month, roller coaster ride, ride my Cannondale (
WA,
Sounds like a very self centered place, no thanks, not interested. However, there are lots of self absorbed christian that would be very interested I’m sure.
Ren:
[I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but there is more gentetic diversity within the races than there are between them. Ergo: the entire concept of race is sooooo 20th century. We are first and foremost all humans. The concept of 'race' is an illusion.]
Thank you. Great comment.
mxracer:
online plastic-wrapped mexican-americans cause dysentery in xian trolls. we are currently awaiting FDA approval in Tijuana…lol…
kosher dilemma,
Thanks for the positive feedback. Not bad for a mentally ill, has-been, eh? I have my moments, even if they are few and far between.
I would like to take credit for the above statement as being an original thought, but in truth, it is something I read in a recent Discover magazine. Such is life!
Wow – even hitler realized Jews were a race.
As to the rest of the comments on this posting – I’ve not seen so much ignorance and hatred on here. When atheism starts to promote groupthink like the rest of organized religion that is when we are going the wrong way. Just the other day you started a thread “On intelligence, religion, and bigotry” and this thread seems to encourage it.
All religions, judaism included, have there major problems. The guides of religions (bibles, talmuds, whatever) are problematic – downright destructive. Some traditions and ceremonies of all religions have been barbaric!
But none of that excuses the tone of some of the posts here. Atheists, for no good reason, get abused heavily in this country and for that reason we have to be better than everyone else. Criticism is fine but starting a conversation with “The top five things I hate about _______ religion” probably isn’t the best way to handle yourself.
You won’t see something like this on FFRF.org. It just isn’t productive to the cause.
There’s a cause? I must have missed that edict from Atheism Central.
What if I’m not following the party line? Will I be excommunicated?
Hell-O? A Cause? When did that happen? We’re not going to have to dress up, are we? I hate dressing up.
Now, is this a caused cause, or an uncaused cause?
Will there be appetizers?
I swear organizing atheists is like herding cats.
larry,
Wow – even Hitler never heard of DNA.
I hereby invoke Godwin’s Law!
HeatheNZ,
I’m with you. I didn’t realize there was a cause. I thought this was a sanctuary for like-minded individuals to commiserate.
Sorry larry, but I am not into proselytizing. I fully support everyone’s right to believe any garbage they choose, so long as they don’t try to push it on me, nor codify it into law.
Karen,
Welcome to the party. There will be no appetizers this evening, but we will be serving Whore’s d’ Ovaries immediatly following the procession of the damned.
HeatheNZ,
I didn’t know you were such a Trent Lott fan.
Thanks Ren. I presume I’m to be a participant in the Procession of the Damned. What fun-maybe we can turn it into a conga line! But I think maybe I’ll pass on the Whore’s d’Ovaries this time around. Last time they didn’t set so well.
Oh, and herding cats isn’t that hard–just pop a can of tuna, and they’re pretty cooperative!
Karen,
Who do you suppose I had in mind to LEAD the procession? You heathen, you.
I’ll be sure to pass along the info on the can of tuna to my folks. They run a cat house, too.
Larry
We are being better than theists. I don’t see american atheists calling for federal resolutions to promote atheism. I don’t see american atheists asking for time in schools to promote atheism. I don’t see american atheists largely getting behind an invasion and destruction of a country, Iraq, that was no threat to the USA. And, as you must know, the list goes on and on.
The moral standard set by theists can be beat by the very worst of mankind.
Larry
And one more thing – If our speech is what offends you maybe you should consider posting on the Saudi Arabian Atheist blog rather than an American Atheist blog.
Larry,
Lest we also not forget that Dave is culturally Jewish. He’d be entitled to his opinions even if he weren’t but it seems pretty clear that the Jewish religion (as opposed to the culture) is as much on his shit list as any other religion.
As far as the idea of a “race” the whole point is that it’s outmoded. There really isn’t a way to determine racial identity from genetics. That should give you a clue that the idea is entirely made up in our heads.
Also as far as being “better than religion” goes, who are you to decide what amounts to being “better than?” I see no accounts of genocide laid squarely at the feet of atheism. Extremist politics and religion produce those results. The difference in body count alone should indicate we’re already “better” than religion. Religion is completely deserving of all of the mockery it deserves and you can be polite as you please and it won’t ever sway them.
No sensible person would consider flat-Earthers to be deserving of anything more than ridicule. Religion is just as deserving. Just because they believe they deserve respect doesn’t mean they actually deserve it. Stupid ideas deserve no respect whatsoever. Dangerous ideas deserve far worse.
You are missing my point. This thread has been about hate.
Does it really matter that a Jew (Disclaimer – I am Jewish) starts a post titled “The top-five things Jews do to piss me off” anymore than when black people call themselves niggers? Being derogatory is bad.
IMHO atheism is about rising above all of this. If my neighbor wants a rabbi to circumcise his son a bite off the skin – that’s his sick business but it does nothing to hurt me in my home. OTOH – when a presidential candidate gets up on a national debate and affirms that Jesus Christ is his lord and savior I die a little inside. Not because of his faith – he’s entitles to that – but because it has no relevance to being president or to the constitution and has no place in election politics.
So maybe I used the wrong examples, and maybe I continue to because everyone loves to nit-pick line-by-line but I’m talking about an overall attitude.
You would react the same way if you heard James Dobson et al talking the way y’all are talking.
This is not about us against them. It’s about a long-term dialog towards understanding and hopefully education and progression and evolution of thought.
Here is a story from the Israeli occupied West Bank that reminds one of the American South a few decades ago: church, or in this case, mosque burning.
http://www.imemc.org/article/52186
“A group of Israeli settlers torched an historic mosque in the town of Al-Khader, near Bethlehem, on Tuesday. The settlers used 20 beehives as fuel for the fire, after stealing the beehives from a Palestinian farm located near the mosque.”
- One doesn’t have to approve of the religion to know that this is racist and thus wrong.
“Israeli settlers have been attempting to seize land around Al-Khader for the expansion of the Jewish-only colonies of Efrata and El’azar. Al-Khader has faced increased restrictions by the Israeli military, including being unable to leave the village, which is completely surrounded.”
Oh, but I forget, Israel is a “democratic” state so I mustn’t criticize it. But all the settlements are ILLEGAL and all the Jewish settlers are criminals. The Israeli ghetto wall is also criminal, but let’s not forget that Israel is a “democratic” state.
Oh, also, I shouldn’t be derogatory about these fine upstanding racist settlers.
- “If my neighbor wants a rabbi to circumcise his son a bite off the skin – that’s his sick business but it does nothing to hurt me in my home.”
Sorry, but child abuse, and in this case mutilation, is a crime. So is xian parents’ refusing to give their children vaccinations or blood transfusions. Yes, it does hurt me as a member of our society. Rabbis or Imams or doctors that mutilate children are perverts.
larry,
The hatred of who? Jews? Dave is a Jew and I do not hate him. Mel Brooks, Seinfeld, Adam Sandler, hell even Sammy Davis Jr. was a Jew and I don’t hate any of them. Now, Isreal OTOH, I cannot stand. I am with Ahmadinejad on this one. It should be wiped off the map. Not with mushroom clouds, mind you, but by the same international body that created it; The United Nations.
And all this time I thought Atheism was about not believing in god(s) or the supernatural. I guess I’ll have to update MY humble opinions.
dawnisis:
In few occasions I have run into the word ‘messiah’ and home land in your postings. For information purposes only, messiah is a word that comes from ’shiaj’ – armaic/hebrew for anointed – (me-shiaj) given to King Cyrus the Great by the jews (around 560ish BC). Cyrus allowed the practices of various religions during his kingdom. As a result of Cyrus’ policies the jews honored him as a dignified and righteous king thus being called by the ‘title’ of Shiaj.
With respect to the ‘jewish home land’ (and I read ‘why not Jamaica’ some place), one of the choices was Uganda (see Uganda Project) developed in the early XX century by the Russians and Brits in conjunction with Theodore Herzl as one of the proposed sites for a jewish nation.
My posting is strictly informational and it is not in the great detail that the subject may call for or deserve. Sorry for the delay and thank you.
Question: Why do Orthodox Jewish women shave their heads and wear wigs?
Answer:Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox women cover their hair with a wig because, according to Jewish Law, only a husband may see his wife’s hair.
Might as well use a birka…after all, female sexuality is such a threat in the Abrahamic religions…The rationalizations for treating women like dogs are ALWAYS extremely PATRONIZING.
Sorry, not dogs…I would never make my golden retriever wear a wig or a birka although I have shaved him.
larry,
I am gonna assume you are mainly throwing that barb at me since we had been having a conversation.
I would have sex with a nonreligious jew, marry a nonreligious jew and have children with a nonreligious jew.
So if you are saying I “hate” religion. I do, because it KILLS people. The zionists kill people. The muslims kill people. I dislike them equally for their ignorance and getting me into this stupid debate in the first place.
Hate is too strong of a word because what religion gets from me irl is total apathy. I don’t care that israelis kill palestinians or vice versa. In fact I see it as just desserts for the religious. I’m for it.
If all you got is to insinuate anyone who doesn’t support jews hates them then you are less of an atheist than you think. I will NOT soften my opinion for one religion out of fear I will be accused of being hateful.
Have you ever stepped to the defense of muslims on threads where we tear them apart? So what does that say about you?
atomictesting wrote:
Unfortunately, that is no longer true. There is now a product called DNAWitness developed by a molecular biologist named Tony Frudakis.
For more info see
Excerpt from the article:
The “race” of the jewish people is semetic, which INCLUDES ARABS.
Jews are the same race as any other middle easterner. They don’t have there own race. LOOK IT UP. The dictionary I used is websters.
Today race is irrelevant. Who is not of a mixed race anymore? No one. Everyone has had ancestors that slept with someone not of their “race” and had offspring. No one is pure. That’s why this entire aspect of discussion is irrelevant.
DNA Witess Test:
No one sequence can identify a person’s race. Margin of error.
The main point stands you can’t judge race 100% by dna because no one is pure.
Dawnisis wrote:
uh…if it’s irrelevant, why are you posting so often about it?
paul,
I am posting about the irrelevence of race and that according to websters and the encycolpedia being jewish isn’t a race. Yet even though it keeps being pointed out you keep insisting the opposite.
1. Tribe not race
2. Member of a nation not race
3. Decent or conversion not a race
4. Religion not a race
Dawn, you wrote:
Where did I say that?
Look at my post 01/04/08 @ 10:08.
I wrote:
barbiebrains:
In ancient Greece long hair was a symbol of wealth and power while a shaven head was appropriate for a slave.
larry91403,
I’m a white (whatever that means) people. White people do things that piss me off, one of the things that pisses me off is that in the United States, so many of them degrade themselves by claiming to know a personal god. The white christians are STUPID, they are unwilling to acknowledge the Truth.
If the Jews, Muslims, christians, would stop fighting over who’s fantasy was best it wouldn’t be a problem. Race or religion, none of it matters.
Stupid fucking Jesus (if that is its real name?), what an idiot it is.
rna2dna:
here a saying from Xenophanes, greek philosopher:
?The Ethiopians say that their gods are snub-nosed and black, the Thracians that theirs have light blue eyes and red hair.?
rna2dna:
Try not to get so pissed. But you are very right, people will kill each other over myths and fantasies. Economics and control is what it is, I think.
kosher dilemma,
I agree, especially regarding the control part. Preachers plus politicians k-i-s-s-i-n-g equals control of the sheeple and hatred of the people.
rna2dna:
Yes, and on top of that they cannot stop inventing and reinventing more and more myths, gods, angels, devils, semi-gods, saints, almost saints, prophets, etc. It almost becomes a schizophrenia contest (kind of makes me laugh). How pathetic and sad it is to invent a god and have to suffer to keep the invention as king.
I think many jews live in fear that Xtians will pull their crap all over again. Murdering people for no reason and the other evil things they’ve done and continue to do.
This is why they say they are Jewish.
But please, someone, ask them to throw some money where we need it most. Getting rid of religious zealots. I have no problem with anyone’s religious beliefs. Its when they force it on others or cause harm with it. Believe it or not, there are a lot of good religious people out there. Many of them are intelligent and don’t like Bu$h and don’t feel religious viewpoints are an issue in modern politics.
JCC, maybe you should take some notes.
paul,
You didn’t say that. I totally got you confused with larry and I sincerely apologise.
Dawnisis
Me! I am a pure-bred Polish-french-blackfoot.
Yes, I’ve heard of the Poenfoot. I worthy pure-bred animal indeed!
dawnisis:
Apology accepted, and thank you.
There are some Israelis who know better what is going on than Americans. From Yesh Din.
“JERUSALEM – Israel’s military court system for Palestinian suspects in the West Bank produces almost automatic convictions, an Israeli human rights group charged Sunday.
The group, Yesh Din, said in a new report that in 2006 more than 99.7 percent of those accused were convicted, 95 percent in plea bargains.
Yesh Din said its inquiry, which included attending more than 800 hearings and conducting extensive interviews with lawyers and court staff, concluded that suspects were often unable to present a full defense with effective counsel.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080106/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_military_courts
For the full report,
http://www.yesh-din.org/site/index.php?page=militarycourts&lang=en
Maybe I should also mention this song by Billy Bragg, “The Lonesome Death of Rachel Corrie”.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WME495PWWJE
Instead of Dave talking about what jews do that pisses him off, why not have a post on what Jews do that subvert the USA, violate international law, cause religious violence, and cause general harm in America and around the world. This shouldn’t be about the feelings of Dave.
And he further shows his lack of intelligence and religious identity crisis by claiming that he is jewish because some Europeans who were jewish segregated themselves from the rest of their fellow Europeans, copied the local cuisine of Christian Europeans, renamed it with the German dialect, Yiddish, and then proclaimed it to be Jewish food. Absurd. Most Jews in the world, such Italian, North African, Arabic, Asian, and Hispanic would not recognize any of this so-called “jewish food” Dave acts as if it came out of the Talmud and Torah.
This is like an Atheist who grew up Amish claiming that all the cultural aspects of the Amish are Christian and represent all of Christianity and then proclaiming to be a Christian Atheist.
But atleast Dave mustered up some courage to even address jews instead of his usual blind faith and loyalty to judaism.
I am actually quite (pleasantly) surprised at Dave on some of his statements made in this post. It seems that he has opened his mind and allowed himself to accept the truth, atleast part of it.
Perhaps starting with his own feelings, he can move on to have honest, intellectual inquiries into Judaism and jewish identity.
Judaism is a RELIGION. It is NOT, a race, NOT a culture, NOT a tribe.
Hebrew mythology claims that Judaism is a race, but that is an irrational, faith & myth based belief with no basis in fact, science or reality.
Although the jewish religion teaches that jews should segregate themselves from non-jews and to despise non-jews, the various cultures that arose within these segregated communities around the world are all different and none of them represent the jewish religion. They are simply independent and varied cultures that arose within different jewish communities. The same thing can be seen in cultures of Christian communities, but no single culture represents all of Christianity and of all the different cultures that arose from within jewish communities, not one of them represents all of Judaism, despite Mr. Silverman’s ( A German name) claim.
In Hebrew and Christian mythology, there is reference to the “tribes of Israel”. However, these ancient “tribes” from thousands of years ago do not exist. An Italian has more intellectual credibility by referring to them self as a Roman or being part of the Roman tribes, than a person who is from a family that believes in Judaism claiming to represent a tribe from the ancient world, especially Europeans from jewish families who cannot trace their lineage any farther back than Europe – such as Ashkenazim who mostly have germanic names, and European genes.
I expect you to hold to your word, Chad. Go find another blog to troll, another friend to back-stab , and another cause to derail.
Or is your promise worth nothing?