COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) – The deadly shooting sprees at a megachurch and a missionary training school were believed to have been carried out by the same person – a 24-year-old suburban Denver man who “hated Christians,” a law enforcement official told The Associated Press.The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the investigation, identified the gunman as Matthew Murray, the son of a neurologist who is a prominent researcher on multiple sclerosis.Five people – including a gunman – were killed, and five others wounded Sunday in the two eruptions of violence 12 hours and 65 miles apart.The first attack took place at a youth missionary training center in the Denver suburb of Arvata; the other occurred at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, where the gunman was shot and killed by a security guard.The law enforcement official said Murray was believed to be the gunman in both attacks. Murray did not appear to have a criminal history but “hated Christians,” the official said. The official did not know Murray’s religion, if any.Authorities searched the Murray home Monday on a quiet street in Englewood. No one was home when a reporter visited the split-level brick home early Monday. Murray’s father, Ronald S. Murray, is a neurologist who is chief executive of the Rocky Mountain Multiple Sclerosis Center in Englewood.Matthew Murray lived there along with a brother, Christopher, 21, a student at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Okla.A neighbor, Cody Askeland, 19, said the brothers were home-schooled, describing the whole family as “very, very religious.”
This is such a shame. This kid was home-schooled to be more religious, but came out of it without compassion. There may be a link here with the church’s anti-stem-cell research position since his Dad is a neurologist, but that’s just a guess.A lot of time people ask me how I stay ethical, since they believe that without religion there can be no ethics. My reply is that THEY are taught that the only real reason to be good is a selfish Heaven/hell decision, and that without the religion they would actually turn to evil. As Atheists, we are taught to be ethical to be good, not to kiss some god’s ass.My point here, is that the church teaches ethics, but for the wrong reason (threats and fear, not humanism). If the student loses the church, he loses that basis for those ethics. If you’re not-quite-sane, that’s not good. The other side of the coin here is that if the student believes in life-after-death, there is much less stopping him from killing (let God sort ‘em out).
tisstupid,
I believe you’ve managed to reach the crux of our idealogical differences.
As one who is psycologically predisposed to bi-polar mood swings (incidentally, bi-polar disorder merely discribes the symptoms; the diagnosis in no way tells why I manifest these emotions; however, that’s a bone to pick best left for another day), I am intimately familiar with problems which may result from relying on personal experiences (of the un-substantiable variety) to draw conclusions about reality. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to imagine how such problems may come about. I in no way relish the thought of revealing my failings to the world.
On a side note, a truly “heart”-felt greeting to all my ideological compadres. Atheists are difficult to find in Northeast Georgia. Either we are indeed few in these parts, or simply really good at hiding. It is my personal preference to think the latter.
Stilhorn,
A most astute observation which reminds me of a conversation I had with some conservative Christians just last Wednesday.
That particular night, the congregation (why was I at a Christian church, you ask? I attend with my family; apparently I’m supposed to absorb Christ’s good message through osmosis) was reading from Acts chapter 25. All’s well and good, you know, until the teacher for that night decides to stop on verse 11 to infer the Bible’s position on capital punishment. And I quote:
Act 25:11.
“If then I am in the wrong and have done anything that deserves death, I am not trying to escape dying, but if not one of their charges against me is true, no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar!?
Now, I think we all agree the Bible as a whole most certainly supports capital punishment. All you would need to do is read the Old Testament and the numerous atrocities found there-in. But the problem conservative Christians are encountering among their liberal brethren (not that any conservative Christian believes liberals are on the “true” path to salvation), is that capital punishment is not “Christ-like.” So the conservatives search and search, but the best they can come up with is the above passage. On with the story.
I then proceeded to re-iterate Paul’s various crimes against Christianity before his conversion and asked “were not these crimes worthy of death?” I was then accused of quoting out of context (which, of course, I was; that was the whole point).
After writing all that, I can’t seem to remember what my original point was… Oh, well. It would be a waste of effort to erase it all now. You can each draw your own conclusions from the story.
stilhorn
A group of us tried a similar argument with a teacher in HS regarding possible answers on a test.
She responded, “Too bad for you that rank has it’s privileges.” After that whenever any of us started to raise any objections, she would just say, “RHIP” and keep right on motoring.
Does Death Penalty Save Lives? A New Debate
According to roughly a dozen recent studies, executions save lives. For each inmate put to death, the studies say, 3 to 18 murders are prevented.
…
The studies, performed by economists in the past decade, compare the number of executions in different jurisdictions with homicide rates over time ? while trying to eliminate the effects of crime rates, conviction rates and other factors ? and say that murder rates tend to fall as executions rise. One influential study looked at 3,054 counties over two decades.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/18/us/18deter.html?_r=1&em&ex=1195621200&en=c3a929a93389f067&ei=5087&oref=slogin
This young man had other problems and just because he was raised in a christian household does not mean he was a christian. Obviously he hated christians therefore he was rebelling that’s when you do something that’s against what you’ve been taught,and if he was taught that it was not a real Christian household.
keisha08,
Concerning who is and who is not a “real”, or “true” Christian.
You should do a little research on a logical fallacy called the “no true Scotsman” fallacy. It’s an error of logical argument that, if employed, will cause your comments to fall flat on their face in this forum.
against Christianity before his conversion and asked “were not these crimes worthy of death?”All you would need to do is read the Old Testament and the numerous atrocities found there-in. But the problem conservative Christians are encountering among their liberal brethren.
http://www.christian-drug-rehab.org
against Christianity before his conversion and asked “were not these crimes worthy of death?”All you would need to do is read the Old Testament and the numerous atrocities found there-in. But the problem conservative Christians are encountering among their liberal brethren.
http://www.christian-drug-rehab.org