http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/06/religion-in-politics/Here’s a good article on each political candidate’s roll for religion. Magic Underwear Mitt Romney wants us all to have faith, but states that his preachers won’t have a roll in his administration (a lie). Huckabee would have us teach creationsim as science, making us the laughing stock of the world (even worse than we are now). Too bad. Allowing every other country to raise smarter kids than Americans to suit his religious or political agenda smacks of treason, IMO. He would be literally giving away our kids future, subjugating them en masse to lesser jobs, serving better-educated Europeans and Asians.Obama’s father was an Atheist, but he’s Christian. At least he has some connection to the thought process.Clinton and Edwards, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. They sound like Bush. A LOT.Giuliani says he keeps his Catholicism to himself, but his endorsement by bigots and liars like Pat Robertson make me doubt his conviction to religious freedom.And.. 60% of Americans are bigoted and ignorant, and would not vote for an Atheist, according to the AOL poll (not scientific).
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If I got the turnout numbers right, many elections are won by maybe 25%-30% of voting-eligible Americans. A candidate who campaigns strongly on reason and secularism my turnout a good chunk of those 40% who *would* vote for an atheist (especially since so many atheists are sick of hearing about a candidate’s religion).
I think an atheist could make a very strong showing in a run for president, especially if they get that 15% block of atheists to all show up on election day.
RON PAUL 2008!
mdetrano said
“I think an atheist could make a very strong showing in a run for president, especially if they get that 15% block of atheists to all show up on election day.”
The figure is more like 18% which in real numbers is around 5.7 million
people and mostly in the 20 to 35
age range.Not good enough for President perhaps but they could make a inpact on the voting.
I’m not much enthused about any would-be nominee this time around, but in all fairness, I doubt a Hillary Clinton presidency would differ in any measurable degree from the so-so god-emphasis we saw when her husband was president. And I doubt anybody can get elected in this country without at least some lip-service to the magic man.
Actually, I don’t care if the president is a believer. Evidently every past president has been a believer, or so we were led to believe. I just want to have whoever is elected 1.) Not hear voices and think it is god talking to him/her, and 2.) Go to church if that’s what they want or need, but keep it out of my face and out of public policy.
Yeah, but didn’t only about 45% of the people even vote in the last presidential election?
We need to get more atheists off their butts and to the polls.
I think Edwards is a true Jesus follower. Something tells me Hillary pulls him out of her sleeve when she needs to. I could be wrong, but If she got the office, I don’t see her conferring with pastors to do the job.
Karen, I’m with you. Call it a hunch, but I think Hillary’s religion is politics. She knows that in order to be elected, she has to claim christianity and put on a show about going to church, but I think when it comes to the decision making it won’t play a part.
Well then, Obama it is.
Anyone read Mitt’s logical blunder:
“Freedom requires religion, just as religion requires freedom”
He’s got the last part right, but the first part is so wrong as to be disturbing.
So let me get this straight… a person is not bigoted if they have intolerance and discrimination against theistic beliefs, since those beliefs are false, and you can’t be a bigot against fallacious claims.
..but you are a bigot if you are such towards an atheist, since an atheist doesn’t have positive claims about fictional beings or things that “atheism” could describe, right?
I just want to make sure I’ve got this straight, because that’s how I’m used to defining it insofar as how the word is used.
Alex:
I agree. Ron Paul may be our only choice. He is the least crazy of all.
mushinronjya:
??? uh, you are an xtian I take it.
We have no intolerance on what one believes. Believe what you want. I really don’t care.
But, don’t expect us to vote for a person that believes in a 6000 year old universe. If that is what they believe, fine, but I don’t feel I am bigoted for not voting for him cause he can not think logically.
mushinronjya:
I think you were being sarcastic. So perhaps I think I was a bit harsh.
If you want a government run by religion, by all means go ahead and vote for Ron Paul.
He has openly declared his opposition to SOCAS (and choice of the individual on a variety of issues) very clearly!
No better than W. Ptui.
No, that makes sense
. -t is a a little hippacritical to say its ok to not vote for someone only because they believe in the creation myth
, but it is biggoted to not vote for someone only because they have no bellief in god.
Any atheist considering supporting Ron Paul might want to read his opinions about the separation of church and state here:
http://tinyurl.com/2×8br
I particularly enjoyed where the self-proclaimed Constitutional expert describes the Constitution as “replete with references to God.”
Thanks, but no thanks on Ron Paul.
ah crap. That leaves no one to vote for.
Thanks a whole lot Rusty. Thanks
Dave? What are your positions?
hmmm President Dave? Sounds good.
I wouldn’t vote for Ron Paul but I’ll send him a bunch o’ cash if he’ll run as an independent.
I think Hillary is our best shot right now. I agree that she probably will have the least religious administration.
Obama scares me a little with his kingdom of heaven on earth, even though I voted for him before. (He’s my senator).
I would love though, to see a candidate give a nod to us. One who is not afraid to say that atheists are citizens too, and deserve all the respect that anyone else would get. That would probably seal my vote regardless of what party they came from.
Ron Paul is a one-issue candidate. He is right about Iraq and wrong about everything else with his liberretardian philosophy.
Mitt Romney claims he would not have a Muslim in his cabinet, because at less than 1% of the American population, Muslims make up only 600,000 or so Americans. Not enough, for him, to consider worth representing with a position in his government.
But wait… Mormons make up only 1.5 % of the American population, or roughly 4 million Americans.
Atheists on the other hand make upwards of 10% of the population, or 30 million Americans. I wonder if old Mitt would consider a position for one of us, since there are enough of us to warrant some sort of representation in our government.
Dream on!
pha,
The only candidate I’ve seen give a nod to Atheists is Mike Huckabee. And fuck that guy.
Watch his response to question #2 here:
http://www.10questions.com/
Are there any other videos like this from other candidates. I admit I haven’t gone looking for stuff like this.
Obama believes in a kingdom on Earth!? On second thought, maybe go with Guliani. He made crime and wasteful spending go down in New York, and perhaps he could make it go down in the US in general. He seems to be the only candidate on the republican side who has a handle on things. Plus, I don’t think he really believes in god being printed on our money.
I find Huckabee the least vomit-inducing of all the Republican candidates, even though he is arguably the most honestly religious. Still wouldn’t vote for him though.
Ren,
I’ve been meaning to look at the religious broken down by which god delusion they believe in. I’m wondering were you obtained the numbers?
Hitchens on Romney’s speech, in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2179404/
Wow, too much to cut’n'paste in here, but talk about not looking at yourself before condeming others:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315623,00.html
snippet here from Father Jonathan’s bit:
Leave it to a Catholic priest to see nothing abnormal in seeking wisdom by consulting a stone in your tophat.
Makes me wonder what the Pope’s hiding under his pointy cap.
rna2dna,
http://www.adherents.com/
I’m not sure how accurate it is, but it’s definitely interesting.
I’m having a lot of trouble picking a candidate this time around. They all seem a tad too religious for my taste. Republicans are usually out because of the no gay rights or abortion thing, but the only decent Dem, Obama, went on that “faith and family” bullshit in south carolina, ad now I can’t take him seriously.
it’d be worth running for president just to prove to some people that even thought it’s not officialy there is a religious test to hold office.
rna2dna,
On the news this morning, they mentioned that muslims make up about .2% while Mormons make up about 1.5% here in the US. They went on to say there are about 4 million Mormons in the US, and a little over seven in the world. I used 10% as a standard for determining Atheist numbers. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the New’s numbers, as I cannot even remember which network it was I was watching, although I believe it was NBC.
Obama is ex-Muslim but Church of Christ these days. I have problems with all churches, but Church of Christ seems to me to be one of the more idiotic irrational ones (as if they all aren’t.
I remember an argument between a C-of C member and a man who had married a C-of-C woman. They were arguing over whether there should be music in the church since C-of-C says it is a bad and unacceptable thing. The C-of-C guy demanded that the other one show him where it said in the bible that music was okay. The answer was: Right after that verse where it says air conditioning is acceptable.
The only candidate that has shown that he actually supports the Constitution above all, so far, is Kucinich. However, as long as the MSM continues to marginalize him, it’s going to be a tough row to hoe. Example: look at the time he was allowed to talk during the debate 11/15. Five and a half min.! Compare that with the time alloted for Ho bama – 18min. and Hilarious – 15 and a half min.
No bias there, huh?
Totally agree on the so-called debate business. Time given to candidates seems extremely uneven. Joe Biden is another one that has been given limited talking time and I would like to see him get more exposure.
I used to think I might be able to go with Kucinich but if you check his past record and pesonal life I’m not sure I would like to see him get the nomination.
I said earlier there really isn’t anybody I really like. It’s going to be another of those elections where I vote for the one who will be likely to do the least harm and that will be the Democrat, regardless of which one gets the nomination.
Godfree
I didn’t see that coming and I laughed so hard I almost cried! Thanks!
As for candidates, I got an email from the campaign for Bill Richardson, Dem. Gov of New Mexico yesterday. I had forgotten about him. Anybody have any opinions about him? His biggest selling point was a promise to “end this war on my first day in office”. I don’t know if that’s naive, overly ambitious or batshit crazy. I haven’t clicked the link to his plan yet.
GodFree&Glad,
Regarding your comment concerning Obama’s denomination, he is a member of the United Churches of Christ and not the “Church of Christ.” There’s a huge difference.
The United Church of Christ is a very liberal church that is much like Unitarian Univeralists. They are very open and welcoming, not very dogmatic.
The “Churches of Christ” refer to local churches that are literalist and try to follow scripture exactly concerning forms of worship. Their mantra is “Speak where the Bible speaks and be silent where the Bible is silent.” Some of them are very exclusive and hateful while others are simply conservative.
I hope this clears up the confusion.
Agnosticat,
Thanks. My that is confusing and brings up the question: If they are much like Unitarians why “Christ” in the name? Or are Unitarian Univeralists different than plain old Unitarians? I once had a Unitarian tell me that Unitarians “believed in only one god, if that.”
I’ll look up The United Church of Christ just for the information. Thanks again.
Agnosticat,
A quick check of Wikipedia and I’m not so sure you are correct about The United Churches of Christ being “much like Unitarian Univeralists,” although they are, apparently, more liberal than THE Church of Christ.
Here’s a little of what Wikipedia says about them both:
The United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ acknowledges as its sole Head, Jesus Christ, Son of God and Savior. It acknowledges as kindred in Christ all who share in this confession. It looks to the Word of God in the Scriptures, and to the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, to prosper its creative and redemptive work in the world. . . . it recognizes two sacraments: Baptism and the Lord’s Supper or Holy Communion.
Unitarian Universalism (UUism) is a theologically liberal religious movement characterized by its support of a “free and responsible search for truth and meaning.” This principle permits Unitarian Universalists a wide range of beliefs and practices. Unitarian Universalist congregations and fellowships tend to retain some Christian traditions such as Sunday worship that includes a sermon and singing of hymns, but do not necessarily identify themselves as Christians.
Both Unitarianism and Universalism trace their roots to Christian Protestantism. Many UUs appreciate and value aspects of Islamic, Christian and Jewish spirituality, but the extent to which the elements of any particular faith tradition are incorporated into one’s personal spiritual practices is a matter of personal choice in keeping with UU’s creedless, non-dogmatic approach to spirituality and faith development.
I would prefer, if I had the choice, to vote for a Unitarian.
GF&G,
Yeah, I already know that’s going to happen in this state.
I am a “non-theist” member of the United Church of Christ and can echo the other poster who claims that the UCC is much like Unitarian-Universalism. Even though the UCC continues to claim itself as a Christian denomination (something the UUA no longer does) there is a deep historical relationship between one group and the other. The Unitarian Church began in New England from a schism of Congregationalist churches. The Congregationalists created Harvard, Yale, and Darmouth (among many other universities). It was during the schism that Harvard sided with the Unitarians and Yale remained “faithful” to the Congregationalists (which later became the UCC).
The UCC continues to be the most progressive Christian denomination in the United States. It began ordaining women before the Civil War, and LGBTIQ people since 1972. It has a strong history of social justice including ending slavery, working to advance feminism, and is now actively involved in the LGBTIQ Civil Rights Movement. Our churches are also known for celebrating Darwin’s birthday every year.
Atheists, non-atheists, theists, panentheists, and all others are warmly invited to the UCC. But be forewarned, we will put you to work when you come. We expect our members to be actively involved in working for peace and justice in their communities and the larger world.
Karen
I’m glad you asked. I was in New Mexico March 2003 shortly (about a week or two) after the Invasion of Iraq began. I tuned in to KKOB – a conservative talk radio station – and caught an interview of Richardson by the conservative host. The host asked Richardson why he thought there were so many people protesting the war in Albuquerque and Richardson responded: “They are just stuck in the sixties”. It got a good laugh from the host but I was deeply insulted.
So what I want to know is when did the flippant and disrespectful Richardson make the anti-war conversion. Most folks I new in New Mexico were Dems and none of them trust Richardson. He is widely known as a devious opportunist. He was behind the bogus and politically motivated prosecution of Wen Ho Lee. He should be tarred and feathered for that alone.
“robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant” America from Ron Paul’s rant. Does this seem as oxy-moronic to y’ll as it does to me?
“robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America” put the quotation marks in wrong place. sorry
What
Thanks for the insights. Food for thought.
Dennis Kucinich.
Dave loves to use the term “Magic Underwear” when talking about Romney, but does Romney admit to wearing said Mormon undergarments? And when was the last time Dave wore his magical jewish beanie? Perhaps when he went to temple to take part in celebrating some backward, primitive religious myths from the torah.
But back to the candidates- sure they almost all cater to religion and religious fallacies, but what are atheist groups doing about it other than complaining on blogs?
How about publicly going to candidates events and calling them out.