Yesterday I posted the “naughty and Nice” list, and it occurred to me that they are partially right — there IS a war on Christmas. The reason it’s so confusing is that its players are ALL Christian.
Please note: this list is maintained by the Liberty Council (LC) which is dedicated to imposing it?s version of Christianity on everyone in our country, and the planet
The writers are obviously Christian, but I’m willing to bet that lots, nay ALL of the bad guys on their list (Target, for example)are also run by Christians. THOSE Christians have mostly Christian customers.So where are we Atheists? On the side, shaking our heads and wondering why WE are the ones who are being blamed!I’ll tell you why we’re being blamed, because they are used to blaming us and we are used to taking it. They beat each other up and blame us for the mess, just because they have done so in the past.So YES, Dear Christians, your war on Christmas is indeed real, but it is you who wage war against your brother. You who point the finger. You who organize the boycott.The real culprit is the Christians of Yesteryear who made the terrible mistake of making Christmas a nationAL holiday. In doing so, they force people to take off from work and find something to do. Since a good sized group of the country are not (and never will be) church-going Xtians, what else are they gonna do but make secular aspects of your holy day more prevalent. You want church attendance, they want presents and Santa. And on it goes. Compare to how religious holidays that are NOT National holidays treated, like Yom Kippour, the Jewish holiest day, when Jews go to temple and everyone else goes to work. THAT’s a religious holiday, and that’s what Christmas would be –solemn and special for those who want it — if it was not forced down all our throats.NOTE — this is a prime example of how the church wiggling into the state hurts the church dramatically by forcing itself to be subjected to external forces like capitalism and democracy.Christians HEAR ME! You war against yourselves due to your own actions! DUH!Stop pointing the fingers at Atheists and Jews, and start looking in the mirror.
Shop? What a perfectly delightful Freudian slip.
The war on xmas is definitely xian fingerprints all over it. They are great at starting unjustifiable wars and then blaming the results on others.
should have read: The war on xmas definitely has xian fingerprints all over it.
Fuck xmas.
Fuck Jesus.
Fuck god.
Yay to Solstice, the original holiday!
The true meaning of the holiday!
Ohhhh… definately on the naughtly list…
http://www.wnem.com/news/14706299/detail.html
Ohhhh… definately on the naughtly list…
http://www.wnem.com/news/14706299/detail.html
I read about the Chinese communist making Crosses that are sold in NYC cathedrals and went to see if our good friends at the Catholic League had any comment and no, not a single comment about all the media on how St Pats and Trinity sold Crosses made by 15 and 16 year old girls forced to work anywhere from 12 to even 23 hours a day to make these holy kotchkis for Catholics and other Xian folks. They live in dirty disgusting dorms, eat company poor unhealthy food, work with toxic chemicals, and then have the room and board deducted from their pay. Their pay is half the communist minimum wage of 55 cents an hour.
On the cover of the National Labor Committee report that documents these horrid conditions is a quote from one little commie girl who prays:
So what did I find on the Catholic League website?
Okay! this is a real new low in hypocrisy. I don’t even know what if anything anyone can say in defense of this religion. I know we just don’t want to be forced to participate in their ignorance while recognizing their Constitutional right to indulge in ignorance. But forcing little girls to work themselves to death to support their f—- holidays is more than I can stand.
Thanks for posting all that information, Peter. I’d say what the good Catholics are doing would amount to unforgivable sin except that they’ve worked it out so that there is no unforgiveable sin, so carry on you little Chinese girls, this is just a more recent form of religious torture.
And thanks to the Catholic League website for gathering all that information for us. I found it uplifting!
Now and again somebody on this blog says we’re gaining strength and it won’t be long until we are in the majority. I always wish it was true but count it as wishful thinkiing. Seeing the list, however, really gives me hope. Also, I live in town of about 50,000 in the heart of the bible belt with not one, but two xian colleges turning out devout xians, yet we’ve had a lengthy “discussion” running in the Letters to the Editor between atheists and xians now for about three months. Frankly, I’ve been astounded letters from atheists would be printed for the public to read at will, but it has happened! Maybe, just maybe, we’ve not as far from the happy day as I think. I’m crossing my fingers . . . that’s not a xian thing, is it?
Congratulations, Godfree on what your town is doing. It is far too easy to just vilify us, if no one explains what our position really is. When I explain my beliefs and philosophy to most, if given the chance, they are shocked that my moral and ethical stance is as good or better than theirs. You can see the gears turning as the new ideas are hitting home. Many begin to see the positive aspects, and fear it much less. I do not win converts, but I do win allies. It is all in the presentation. I am learning to not sound too superior. Know your audience, speak their language. Use their metaphors.
The war on christmas is the funniest thing I have ever heard. As far as I know it has been far more bloodless than any war in history. Bell ringers are not even beaten, and not a single casualty to date. Take note of the language used. Public opinion is very easy to manipulate, if you manipulate the meaning of words first. Understanding of psychology is the most powerful tool used by the enemies of reason and by the republican spin gurus. If you can not win with a good argument, just sidestep reason all together. IMHO it is an unethical strategy.
What amuses me most about the “war” on Christmas all the bullshit about the “meaning of christmas”! Excuse me, but as a converted catholic, I always thought the “meaning” of christmas was all about the birth of their savior.
Who knew that the real “reason for the season” was christmas lights, religious displays, spending spending spending, commercialization, trees, etc.
Tell me, how much money is WASTED on these gawdy diplays of the season? In Denver, the city and county building is lit up in an amazingly beautiful fashion. City workers spend weeks stringing colored lights and a large “lighting ceremony” is held. Every time I pass it, I wonder if it makes it a bit hard for the homeless people in the park across the street to get a good night’s sleep!
AND, their choice of the word “war” while we have an actual war going on is so disrespectful to those forced to spend the last week of December in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I did a search on the casualties of the war on christmas and could find none.
The war in Iraq? Here you go:
http://icasualties.org/oif/
My bad.
War on Christmas casualties:
http://www.wikiality.com/War_On_Christmas
For Xmas I’d like a teddy bear named “Mohammed”
That may offend the Sudanese government, but Bill Donahue won’t mind, and that’s what counts.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/11/28/sudan.bears/index.html
Peter
Small correction. The crosses are not holy kotchkis. They are secular death symbols, as per the Utah court.
And I agree, it’s outrageous that the church does business with the Chinese who force their workers to operate under such intolerable conditions for such terrible wages. It’s just the kind of situation you would find a check box for on a donation envelope on the back of the pew on Sunday morning.
Thanks to Mr. Donahoe for providing the uplifting list of rational people. Though I don’t understand why any kind of decorations would belong on a school bus at all. That was a weird one.
drchris06,
Although the news media did not mention it, I think all teddy bears named Mohammed have been sentenced to 6 months in jail and will not be available for xmas.
deak and Dr chris
LOL
Karen
and the federal court in San Diego declared the cross on the hill to be a symbol of the War Department and not a religious symbol either.
Peter
So if I see someone with a cross around the neck, I should ask if s/he is from the War Department or simply supports death by torture, or perhaps, both?
karen,
If roadside crosses represent highway fatalities, do you think xians would object if I used them to mark roadkill sites.
Karen
I’d say both.
deak
I thought that was what they were doing in Utah.
deak
Who cares if the Christians object? If the crosses represent highway fatalities, then I think it is a moral imperative that we mark every deer’s, possum’s, squirrel, dog’s cat’s, and armadillo’s passing until the roadsides are literally littered with crosses.
Oh, the frogs’ crosses alone after a storm will look like a small holocaust.
“War on Christmas” is nothing but a diversion for Christians by Christians; Getting themselves riled up over non-issues like this rather than dealing with real ones…like the war in Iraq, genocide in Darfur, or even issues closer to home like poverty, government corruption, education or any of a dozen other real issues.
I had a ?run-in? with this issue just over Thanksgiving… I traveled to Nebraska to visit the in-laws. My wife and I stopped at a gas station at some point in central Nebraska and while I was waiting to purchase an assortment of travel snacks and health-hazardous junk food, I overheard the guy at the pay counter reply to the cashier (after the cashier said ?happy Thanksgiving?), “are we still allowed to say that?” He said it in a rather sarcastic, wink-wink kind of way and the cashier looked a little perplexed. I immediately knew he was making reference to his distaste over the B.S. “war on Christmas”. He said to the clerk, ?You know, the liberals try’n to stop everybody from say?n Christmas.”
I then spoke up and said, “Ya, I wish those liberals would shut up too. That way, we good Christians could continue to dismiss and exclude Jews and Honokaa and anyone else who doesn?t share our holiday?”
He didn’t say anything and abruptly walked out with his case of beer.
Good for you, DVanWechel.
That was priceless. You give me courage.
Thanks GodFree&Glad.
My wife thought I was just being a dick. : )
Peter
Wow! That is one of the most frightening (and telling) things I’ve ever heard!
I guess the War Department might just as well come out and say it – “the cross is our symbol.” I guess that is the symbol for which the war is being fought! Forget about the constitution – we’re fighting for Jesus On A Stick!
And on their day off the Chinese girls get to make American flags.
I try really hard not to buy stuff made in China and find stuff made here. It is usually impossible. It is to the point that I am happy if an item is made in India, Guatemala or Indonesia.
Off topic but…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071128/ap_on_re_us/oral_roberts_scandal
I wonder what else his “God” tells him to do?
Isn’t this just schizophrenia?
How can the mentally ill be the president of anything?
Austin Cline writes about the war on Xmas…good stuff…
http://tinyurl.com/2nbmhq
The Christian wailing claim that there is a “war on christmas” parallels the Jewish tactic of always claiming to be the victim and calling anyone who doesn’t conform to their demands or support the racist, apartheid, faith-based state of Israel an “Anti-semite”, “Nazi” or “holocaust denier”. (Something Dave has done on numerous occasions)
Both are the inventions of the religious group falsely claiming persecution.
It is even more clear that these complaining Christians are more concerned about violating the US Constitution than supporting it and forcing their beliefs on all citizens.
By the President of the United States of America.
A Proclamation.
The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies. To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God. In the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign States to invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations, order has been maintained, the laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except in the theatre of military conflict; while that theatre has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union. Needful diversions of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defence, have not arrested the plough, the shuttle or the ship; the axe has enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines, as well of iron and coal as of the precious metals, have yielded even more abundantly than heretofore. Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege and the battle-field; and the country, rejoicing in the consiousness of augmented strength and vigor, is permitted to expect continuance of years with large increase of freedom. No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American People. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to His tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquillity and Union.
In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the Seal of the United States to be affixed.
Done at the City of Washington, this Third day of October, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and of the Independence of the Unites States the Eighty-eighth.
By the President: Abraham Lincoln
William H. Seward,
Secretary of State
He must not have read the constitution.
1. A text can be interpreted/analyzed.
2. A 19th century text MUST be analyzed.
3. Analysis means you have to pull it apart and think through definitions using historical, social, political, rhetorical schemes.
4. Analysis can be grammatical, semantical, syntactical…and more!
5. Analysis is hard work.
6. My preschoolers are taught to use thinking maps.
7. Analysis requires thinking.
8. Analysis is a bitch.
Toady,
I feel certain that Pres. Lincoln read the constitution, but he was human and a man of his time. This seems like a proclamation and not a law, so it may not be technically in conflict with the constitution. It may border on being unconstitutional, and I would object to the wording of it if a president of today gave this speech.
Yes, he was a great president, but he messed up sometimes, too!
Hi Barbiebrains!
Do you teach preschoolers? I just interviewed for a 1st grade teaching position today!
Do you ever feel like you’re dealing with preschoolers when you respond to our fundie guests on this blog?
BTW, I liked the link you gave to the Austin Cline article about xmas. I especially liked what he had to say about us celebrating solstice instead of xmas.
Pixel,
What? Another heathen teaching our children? Glad to know there are more atheist teachers out there…Yes, I currently teach PreK but I am working on my library certification ’cause the little buggers are driving me nuts…never a dull moment chasing them down.
The fundies on this site are worse than my kiddoes…at least my kiddoes learn to redo, try again, rethink, learn to make “good choices” and resubmit their work…We are currently learning to count to 100…Good luck with 1st grade…it is a tough one with all the reading requirements and constant testing…Glad you enjoyed Austin Cline. His blog is wonderful.
Comment from: pixel
Wow…what a slip. As if anyone needs any further evidence that the 1st Amendment has been twisted from it’s original intent…
Pixel…can you show me one editorial complaining about Lincoln’s proclamation being unconstitutional…?
And yes…I’ll remind you again…Lincoln was talking about the christian God…
A presidents proclamation has alot more authority then a presidents “private” letter…
Yet…you treat the private letter as law…
No, we see private letters as voicing the true feelings of the letters’ writers, and the public proclamations as nothing more than going along to get along, or playing politics.
Hey Phreedm,
I have no respect for barbaric idiot backward thinking beliefs….
and if I have the right in this country to go to your hell….then why does religion exist in my public life….
and if you tell me that this is a christian nation, suck it up…then I say fuck you…fuck your jesus and fuck your god…because this is a nation that is supposed to unite people with a common forum, not divide people with dumb ideas…
piece
Some Lincoln Quotes for the wackos,
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln
I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.
Abraham Lincoln
The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew.
Abraham Lincoln
Lincoln may or may not have been a Christian by your modern standards. But he was surely ruled by reason and the search for truth, which is the very path you have abandoned. If he had been an Atheist, he simply would not have been elected, he would have been murdered. Unfortunately it was his very attempts at reason that did get him murdered. I consider him much more on of us, than one of you.
Who actually takes any “proclamation” from a Politician at face value? Is anyone that gullible? Oh… wait, I answered my own question…
And, I don’t know if this is a real quote from Lincoln (there seem to be a lot of fake ones out there according to some scholars) but this is attributed to him:
Here is a montage of a Fox News war on xmas report to the 12 days of xmas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3lJec7_QbQ
It is funny. I had to watch twice in a row.
Phreedm…
Do you believe language is static or in flux? Is it possible that terms used in the 19th century such as citizen, god, Christian, freedom, American, justice, etc…had a rhetorical value? Who was a citizen in the 19th century? Who was considered “American” in the 19th century? Just wondering…
Aren’t texts meant to be interpreted according to the society that reads them? Do you believe that all meanings are fixed? What exactly was the 19th century American experience from the perspective of a female, an African-American, an Irish immigrant…Not arguing….just curious as to your take on language and interpretation.
Hey toad what happened to:
“God bless you for hanging out here as much as you do, but I don’t know that I have the stomach for it.”
I guess that didn’t work out huh? What ’s the matter, can’t find friends your own age?
Bernarda:
“Here is a montage of a Fox News war on xmas report to the 12 days of xmas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3lJec7_QbQ“
Too freaking funny! Thanks!
phreedm:
Sorry it’s taken so long for me to respond – I don’t check this blog every day. I don’t know if you’ll be back to check this thread, but here goes . . . . (I’m using the ellipsis in honor of you
I would object to the wording of it if a president of today gave this speech.
Wow…what a slip. As if anyone needs any further evidence that the 1st Amendment has been twisted from it’s original intent…
Pixel…can you show me one editorial complaining about Lincoln’s proclamation being unconstitutional…?
I’m not saying that his proclamation is unconstitutional. However, it is still my right as a citizen to “object” to something – even if it’s constitutional. I don’t want ANY religious holiday to become a federal holiday, and therefore I would not want my president making such a proclamation.
“And yes…I’ll remind you again…Lincoln was talking about the christian God…”
I have no argument with you on this point (except maybe that he was talking about the JUDEO-Christian God). I don’t know what Lincoln’s true religious leanings were, but I don’t doubt that he was addressing this proclamation to the xian majority.
This seems like a proclamation and not a law, so it may not be technically in conflict with the constitution
A presidents proclamation has alot more authority then a presidents “private” letter…
Yet…you treat the private letter as law…
. . . (another ellipsis for you
um, what “private letter” are you talking about?????
phreedm:
I just looked at the above post and it’s not clear who is talking, so I’ll fix it in this post:
ME: Sorry it’s taken so long for me to respond – I don’t check this blog every day. I don’t know if you’ll be back to check this thread, but here goes . . . . (I’m using the ellipsis in honor of you
ME: I would object to the wording of it if a president of today gave this speech.
YOU: Wow…what a slip. As if anyone needs any further evidence that the 1st Amendment has been twisted from it’s original intent…
Pixel…can you show me one editorial complaining about Lincoln’s proclamation being unconstitutional…?
ME: I’m not saying that his proclamation is unconstitutional. However, it is still my right as a citizen to “object” to something – even if it’s constitutional. I don’t want ANY religious holiday to become a federal holiday, and therefore I would not want my president making such a proclamation.
YOU: And yes…I’ll remind you again…Lincoln was talking about the christian God…
ME: I have no argument with you on this point (except maybe that he was talking about the JUDEO-Christian God). I don’t know what Lincoln’s true religious leanings were, but I don’t doubt that he was addressing this proclamation to the xian majority.
ME: This seems like a proclamation and not a law, so it may not be technically in conflict with the constitution
YOU: A presidents proclamation has alot more authority then a presidents “private” letter…
YOU: Yet…you treat the private letter as law…
ME:. . . (another ellipsis for you
um, what “private letter” are you talking about?????
Here’s a link for you:
http://teachingenglishinkorea.blogspot.com/