A federal judge has ruled that some 13 12-foot crosses memorializing fallen Utah Highway Patrol troopers convey a secular, non-religious, meaning and do not violate the U.S. Constitution.In a win for the Utah Highway Patrol Association against the group American Atheists Inc., U.S. District Judge David Sam held Tuesday that the memorial crosses, found along various highways throughout the state, do not represent a government endorsement of an particular religious belief. Such an endorsement would violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.”Even classic religious symbols may have various meanings and purposes depending on their context,” Sam wrote. “The memorial crosses at issue communicate a secular message, a message that a patrolman died or was mortally wounded at a particular location.”News of the ruling was well met by state troopers. “Obviously we’re pleased,” said UHPA president Shane Mebker. “The intent all along was to honor the sacrifice of these men for the state.” Mebker said he was also pleased that Sam recognized that recognition.Sam also noted that because the crosses were funded by donations through the Utah Highway Patrol Association, no government money was spent on them. Also, the UHPA is not considered a religious organization and thus the government cannot be seen as legally “entangled” with a religious organization or belief.Much like the Ten Commandments, Sam said the Latin cross may act as a secular as well as a religious symbol, depending on the context. The reasoning was taken from two U.S. Supreme Court rulings issued recently which held that displays of the Ten Commandments can be on government property as long as its context is historic and not religious in nature.American Atheists attorney Brian Barnard called Sam’s ruling troubling in that the judge held that the cross as a symbol is as secular as the Christmas tree. “Such a holding demeans the cross and those religions which revere it. That vast majority of society today knows exactly and immediately the message a Roman cross conveys. It is not a generic symbol, but the preeminent and exclusive symbol of Christianity,” Barnard said.The legal controversy over the memorial crosses is not over yet. Barnard said American Atheists will ask the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver to review the case.
i would not call it a total lose.you got people in utah to think about the proper place of religion in the public square.no doubt you have planted seeds of freethought that down the road will blossom.don’t forget good things never come easy.
It’s, sadly, not that big of a surprise. The religious wackos control Utah. The strange laws they have in the state show that they have what’s probably the closest thing to a theocracy there is in the U.S. so far.
atomictesting
your envy of the magic underwear will destroy you, let it go my friend.
How can it be in a historical context?
THERE IS NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE FOR THE 10 COMMANDMENTS!
Yea!! Chalk one up for the good guys!!
whoo! whoo-hoo!
Go Utah
Go Utah
Get your cross up
Get your cross up
that atheists have more respect for the cross than so called christians is something to think about.
Then the crosses are secular so we can display them any way we want without the slightest worry that they might appear offensive to the christian, correct?
rna2rna, yep, I am curious where this is going.
Toad: Your beginning to piss me off.
I think I’ll put up a secular cross in my yard and hang laundry on it.
Or maybe hang some of those gourd bird houses from it.
karen,
Ah, a nice handy poop perch. Surely a good use for a secular cross. I think the birds would be most comfortable with a Y designed houses nailed to the front with a little round birdfeeder at the intersection of the Y arms.
rna2dna
Poop perch was what I was goin’ for, but are you describing a real birdhouse design or is it a joke that I don’t get?
karen,
Yes, real bird house condos. The Y design is so the birds won’t feel like they are stacked on top of each other. The condos that form the body are for those that prefer a centered location. The round feeder is in a central position so all can partake of the tasty bits that are there. That way it is a true secular community and no one will be offended.
Karen, I like the idea but in my neighborhood, my home and cars would get egged.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312371,00.html
I wonder if that is where the Utah crosses where made…….
If there is historical evidence for crosses then wouldn’t if follow that there must be historical evidence for just about everything mentioned in the bible? How about stoning, or maybe sacrificing your child because of “historical evidence?
Arggggg! Once more, we see the classic church and state rally against us! Someone shoot me! They need to put up a reef and a heart, that’s secular!!!! Plus, that guy even said the cross was secular and religious, what a jerk! It was all a lie from the beginning!
Wow! So the cross is now a secular symbol, is it? If that doesn’t highlight the degree of Christian privilege in American society, I’m not sure what would.
I wonder what the reaction from the Christards would be if one posted inverted crosses along the opposite stretch of highway.
The money was donated. If no public money is used to finanace the memorials, I see no problem with it.
The military provides funerals according to your religious preference. I don’t see how that’s wrong, or any different. I see nothing wrong with memorials having the theme of the memorialized’s religion.
The Constitution is saved! The markers will remain standing? ON GOVERNMENT LAND!
This is a win for the American people and a slap on the face of the bigots like the Ku Klux Klan, White Patriot Party, and the atheist?s.
What next for you people? Arlington? Local Cemeteries? Maybe you should go after Church?s next.
Bring on the billboards depicting “Piss Christ” across the road. After all, if they can say the cross is secular (on govt. land), there shouldn’t be any outcry about it!
How long do you think that would last?
Oh Yeah,
SUCK IT JESUS!!
I thought they banned those types of displays on the side of highways because it caused a distraction to drivers?
Anyhow, A patrolman is killed or wounded in the line of duty so they erect a cross to symolize his sacrifice. A cross isn’t going to tell me anything, all I’m going to see is a cross, what of this display tells me anything in relation to the patrolman?
If I were a patrolman, I’d rather see a symbol that represents law enforcement, just as we do in the Military we place a pair of Boots, an M16 and Helmet as a display. Why couldnt they do something similiar.
I still wish the religious sector spent more time and effort on solving poverty and world issues and less on infiltrating the government.
Atleast one good thing about religion is I know who to stay away from. I don’t need to learn anything more about a person once they open thier mouth and spew religion.
20x must be asking for a fight. What an ass.
By the way, where is phreedum? Did we beat him up that bad. Not like him to disapear for so long. Or is 20x just a pissed off phreedum with a different logon. hmmmm
He’s probably worshipping the turkey.
phreedm is out looking for an argument that the 1st amendment doesn’t support the freedom of the press.
He might be gone awhile, I think he’s asking Jesus for assistance.
20X,
How is intermingling religion and government a “win for the American people?”
Do you want the government telling you how you’re allowed to worship?
I’m surprised you’re glad that the government has declared the cross a secular symbol. Now the government can use it as they see fit, even if they use it a way that you would find offensive.
@20X
You sir, are truly a Constitutional scholar. And your connection between the KKK and the atheists is spot on. Where did you receive your education? From the depth of your understanding about these issues you sound like either a Harvard or an Oxford man to me. I’ve rethought my entire belief system based on your comment. In the words of another great scholar, I’d like to add:
whoo
whoo hoo
This is truly a meeting of our best and brightest.
I also noticed that 20X picked up on the connection between Atheists and the KKK. That confirmed my belief that most xians operate at a lower intellectual level. To further support my beliefs, I offer this:
Some of you may remember the post I made a few days ago about an order I placed with Danny Davis Ministries for ?No Evil Oil?. Well, I received it in the mail. It was accompanied by a pamphlet and a letter. For you reading enjoyment I have posted the letter on the web space my ISP provides. As you will notice, to fully activate the ?No Evil Oil? requires that I anoint a twenty dollar bill and return it.
Go here and click on the ?No Evil Oil? link.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/e/deakins/default.htm
I’m shocked that anyone would fall for this scam but xians suck it up like kittens drinking milk from a saucer and Danny Davis gets rich from their ignorance.
deak
That would be funny if it weren’t so galling. Imagine all the gullible old people he bilks out of money they need for groceries or heating bills or medicine.
Here in Colorado – at least in the Denver area – they allow a sign on the side of the road for someone who dies. Not sure if it’s drinking/driving deaths or if anyone can get one. Seems to me they are all for kids.
The sign is blue, with a red ribbon (like those disgusting car magnet support our troops thingies), and states “in memory of _________ _________” Some of them have been up for years.
IMO, that’s a secular sign. I still don’t like them – they ARE distracting. I know I’m being nasty, but it seems to me that someone wants everyone to know MY RELATIVE DIED HERE!!! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!! LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME.
If only there were a place where they could install some sort of memorial that they could visit in peace (instead of the side of a busy street or intersection). It’s funny, there’s just such a place in my hometown back east. I think they call it a cemetery or something like that.
/end rant
Worth a chuckle. Apparently 20x is completely unaware that the KKK is filled with white christian men. They’re on his side, not ours.
My guess is that, though I am unsure they’ve ever taken an official position on atheists, they’d probably lynch us too if they could get away with it.
20x
are you aware that this cooling rock spins on an axis on an orbit around huge big ball of burning hydrogen….cause If your not then you may have something in common with the members of the kkk and white patriot…..you all can get together and talk about your relationships with the your dumb idea…I mean the lord
20x…check out google sky….theres more than one big ball of burning hydrogen out there in the cosmos….
hell…you may even find an image to snap and auction on EBay to some poor sap like yourself….
20k,
we have a lot in common. When I’m angry, I rant on other people’s blogs too.
I hardly make words, I just bang on the keyboard.
20x
keeping gov’t and religion separate protects mormons as well as atheists.
we don’t need to go down the sectarian road that europe and asia have it only leads to bloodshed.