ST. GEORGE, Utah – A judge sentenced a polygamous-sect leader Tuesday to two consecutive terms of five years to life in prison for his role in the arranged marriage of teenage cousins. Warren Jeffs, 51, was convicted of two counts of rape as an accomplice for his role in the marriage of a 14-year-old follower and her 19-year-old cousin in 2001. It will be up to the Utah parole board to decide how long he actually stays behind bars.
OK Really. I’m being honest here. Sometimes I’m surprised at how stupid some people can be. Really. She was 14, and marrying her cousin. And this guy had lots of followers. Stupid, stupid followers.
Wow.
That very quickly devolved into mudslinging.
20X,
Your argument does not hold water. It’s clear to any objective observer that the FLDS church follows the teachings of Joseph Smith more closely than the LDS church. It’s also clear that members of each can both be rightly called Mormons.
The No-True-Scotsman fallacy won’t work here, we see it twice on a slow week.
20x:
Do you believe that the ANGEL Moroni appeared to the aforementioned buckshot-in-the-gums Joe Smith? Yes? No? Maybe? All answers count as one.
FLDS, LDS or LSD….Mormons are still hilarious and funky in a rather sicko way and weird and just plain creepy.
PS: Calling women “whors” goes against the teachings of buckshot Joe as dictated by Moroni. As you must know, Joe later flossed his teeth, rinsed his mouth with snake-oil elixirs and learned to shoot straight. His bucktooth girlfriends were much relieved.
20x,
You seem so hostile. Check and see if maybe you have your magic undies on backwards.
Methinks the magic skivvies be on too tight.
I think he went ballistic because in his little corner of the universe it is indecent for a man or woman (especially a woman), to acknowledge the existence of sex. Ideally, children know nothing of where children come from, until they get married and figure it out on their own.
Maybe the 20x refers to the number of wives he expects to get when he lands in the highest levels of heaven as a god in his own right.
Interesting how many people exclude others from their one true believer label. Catholics are not real Christians, and vice versa. Mormons like Mitt and 20x are so Christians, but the FLDS aren’t Mormons.
Wishful thinking can mess people up in the strangest ways. It would be funny, if they didn’t kill over it.
I’m watching a programme on tv right now about a former member of the FLDS who helps young women escape from their FLDS families. These two poor girls on the show had no idea what a movie theatre was and enjoyed having their hair cut for the first time in their lives. It is heartbreaking to watch.
Aren’t the followers of Moroni called Moronics?
Have a nice holiday to all of you.
Does it really matter what branch of moron someone is?
FDG,
That would be Morons!
(That’s why they inserted the “m”. I’m guessing they figured no one would figure it out. Heeheehee.)
20x, sorry this response has been so long delayed. I am sure that you are a thinking human, however, as with all christians you have in some cases fallen victim to the propaganda of those that publicize your god-idea. Please note that some of your rantings are not being quoted here hopefully to save you from the embarrassment of having them repeated.
It is common for the christian to refer to their particular sect as the one christian. As they all have a similar delusion it is not wrong to refer to the entire delusional group as christians. Note that there are many christians that prefer the mormon not be included in the christian group, mainly because the mormon worships a book that the other christians believe to be erroneous. None the less, the mormon will claim inclusion in the delusion known as christianity, and rightly so. All the sects of mormonism have more in common with each other than all the mormon sects have in common with all the other god-ideas that are collected under the delusional grouping known as the christian. So it is incorrect for one sect of the mormon cult to claim to be the ONE mormon they all share a common fantasy.
The leader of the mormon, which claimed direct power to communicate with its god-idea, commanded that the mormon not sell any provisions including food to the American emigrants. If the emigrants had starved to death because of mormon refusal to provide those brave people with needed supplies, the emigrants deaths could be said to have been a tragedy. However, what the mormons did, would be more correctly referred to as the slaughter (as you have correctly noted below) and brutal murder of American emigrants in the quest to fulfill the mormon god-idea fantasy.
Issued by Missouri governor Lilburn Boggs on October 27, 1838. The massacre and slaughter of the brave American emmigrants by the mormons occurred in what is now known as Utah during September of 1857. Now, 20x, I realize that math isn’t generally regarded highly in the mormon educational process but, might I inform you that the dates of occurrence were nearly twenty years apart. If the mormons were scared shitless (as you state below) for 20 years, it is unlikely the mormons would have survived to slaughter the emigrants. Also, please note that unlike the murderous mormons the christians in Missouri preferred that the Mormons simply take their disgusting and murderous ways out of the state of Missouri. Which is what eventually happened with minimal harm to the disgusting mormons. From the order by Boggs:
“open and avowed defiance of the laws, and of having made war upon the people of this State … the Mormons must be treated as enemies, and must be exterminated or driven from the State if necessary for the public peace?their outrages are beyond all description.”
Though it might appear otherwise, of course you are not suggesting that hundreds of mormons were slaughtered by atheists. You are suggesting that the innocent emigrants who were past any mormon outposts were slaughtered by mormons that were not acting on direct orders from the mormon god-idea or mormon prophet who is claimed to have a direct communicative connection to the mormon god-idea. That may in fact be true however, mormons believe that statements made by their prophet are the same as statements made by the mormon god-idea. The prophet of the mormon, at that time, had ordered that no provisions be sold to the emigrants and that the emigrants were not to be allowed to leave the territory that was controlled by the mormon. That order was not changed until after the brave American emigrants were slaughtered by those mormons that believed the order came directly from their god-idea.
No, not even almost understandable. The emigrants had already passed the last mormon outpost and were of absolutely no threat to any mormon.
Is this a reference to a belief held by the mormon, that it will be persecuted before its god-idea poofs back into existence? Because, that statement doesn’t appear to have any historical evidence.
With apologies to Monty Python,
We’re not the fucking Fundamentalist Latter day Saints, were the The Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints.
20X, you are so cute when you get upset, except when you insult… at least there is some hope… you do believe in organisms/parasites
What is the real question bEeing asked. And who or what are you saying. Really.
The war among religions is always the root of many disputes, and as long as racism being another factor in the rage. This country will always inspire itself to tear itself apart. 3 boys and a noose. Who’s to blame. I feel the boys should have gotten jail time for their crimes. The issue was not racism or about what happened 5,000 years ago when it came to slavery. It was about the assault.
We have to look at ourselves before we think about them. I find our country a sass pool of many cultures, sex acts, and violence’s of many types.
Courts wage the same dilemma’s, rape, violence, crime. Which all in self costs tax payers such as yourself money which we will find harder to make and easier for them to spend. The bleeding hearts sitting in the jury debating a verdict.
Segregations of the sexes is here. It based upon age, appearance and money.
Money is at the root of most of them. Divorce is always on the rise, women are always afraid of or bashing the opposite sex and yet the next person is always trying to get ahead at the expense of the other. Regardless if it really was not the case. Women looking for KEN when the average worker remains as the family man discriminates against singles of our nation who are denied equal opportunities. Even companies discriminates and uses Conflicts of interests against existing workers who seek work in a similar company based upon poverty. As Temporary agencies thrive in a failing country, where jobs are being out sourced and eliminated here in the U.S. We find our own mortality numbered when couples are becoming a thing of the past as single mom’s raising children based upon their values as disposable fathers are on the rise. Children are the victims when education will always be out of reach. Mom’s know’s best when she too can not teach what is Wright or wrong.
Job wages are on the decline, Education, health care as well as government spending along with gas prices are on the rise. Everyone will be afflicted, as the lower class workers who struggle with every day living.
As the government being the highest paid in this country, are as blind to the many needs of its nation. And they them selves are the most wasteful of tax payers dollars.
And as I find that in these separated communities that your appalled at, are lacking something we are afflicted with.
I do not agree with 2 things that the polygamists do.
1:) Brain wash or teaching lies.
2:) Under-age marriages.
Anything below 16 is to young, But you can not dispute it since the PUBLIC is also guilty.
I do not see any violence from such communities, I do not see killings or brutal beatings, or even wild bizarre crazed sex acts that would harm their community, or torture to inflict obedience. And I do not see anything wrong with marriages between cousins. 412 children born in this culture vs. 1 to 5 children in the publics family. I find your pretty sick yourself. Especially when you don’t know what normal is.
What is normal? I ask you. Everyone is raised and taught differently. Religions are always at war as churches receive your donations as some preach racism.
What is the number 1 problem that afflicts our country. Its not polygamists.
We are afflicted with racism, Which destroys everything. A HELL BENT CRIME that’s allowed to continue by the bleeding hearts in the courtroom. When blacks stop using their ancestors who’s been dead for hundreds of years to wage war in the present, we’ll all be better off. Judges who can not pass a death penalty based upon someone killing another over greed, or some sick and sadistic, twisted sex act to satisfy their own needs while taking another’s life. And I find it a crime against the human race to kill a child. Life begins at conception, not your blind faith if you think it is aware. Something I know when you understand when women takes that test to see if they are pregnant. Beginnings of LIFE.
When you the PUBLIC, the biggest hypocrites of them all with President BUSH leading you by the nose.
When you ( VOTED ) to deny the fundamental’s of marriage to same sex couples. It was the biggest gay bash of the century with a presidential candidate acquiring his position and your vote. Go figure.. Look at where we are now.
Who are you to sit back in your comfortable chairs and criticize a culture that’s been around since the formation of this country.
I admire these people for staying away from the cities. They are self contained, efficient, and are not crime driven. You’ll attack and destroy everything that
you do not understand, and impose what you understand by your own upbringings upon others. And what’s worse. Your afraid.
The Gay communities are no longer AMERICANS. They are Victims of a nation blind to its true enemies. Stripped of their rights at birth by blind and scared population led by fear. Those who live in fear are the most dangerous ones of all.
QUOTE:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
By the way.
20X
And to you to Karen
Keep up the good work. I love you to.
Faith is not based upon others beliefs.
And my parents are Christians, And me.
I may be joining you Mormons.
And to clarify something. Adult is considered at 18. Not 16. A child must grow and learn.
IF many religion that thinks its better than another. Is not a religion. Its an excuse to impose.
I hope to some day shake your hands
20x and karen.
Such convictions.
I could not find that in my house of god.
Inolew
Is English your second language? It is very difficult to discern the points you’re trying to make. This is a pretty old thread; there’s a newer one on the Mormons, I believe.
In FLDS communities, you do not see this, because they are very secretive, often hiding in heavily guarded compounds. The brainwashing is so complete, that even teens who are rescued from it sometimes go back to the life , because they can’t reject the teachings for fear of eternal damnation. Hundreds of adolescent boys are simply abandoned in the desert to fend for themselves, with no money, no supplies, and very little life skills or education, because they are competition to the older men for the young brides. Abuse doesn’t have to leave scars to be such.
Thank you for reading this thread. And thank you for replying. I do my best with English.
How well I understand the scars of the mind. War is never kind.
As for these secret compounds, it would be interesting to find them and put an end to them like the death camps.
Abandonment in the desert is no different than a death march.
I lived in the US for many years, I seen so much and have protested many atrocities I have lived through.
The American population has no say to what goes on behind closed doors. But if the deaths of a children
is a result of such sects. I am for delivering Altruistic Punishment personally.
Still. I love your conviction.
My convictions are adamant.
My mind open, A hand extended in friendship.
Inolew
Well, thanks, I think, for the compliment, but I have reread this thread twice now, and I don’t see anything in my comments that warrants admiration of, or even demonstrates my convictions. And I certainly don’t find anything admirable in 20x’s posts. We were very antagonistic toward each other. Are you perhaps being sarcastic?
I am sorry that you have experienced atrocities, and doubly sorry if they occurred in the USA. I hope you are well on your way to recovery, both mentally and physically.
What country are you in now?
Their is no cure for my scars, they will be with me always.
I am straight forward and up front, I am not sarcastic. I try to be who I am, nothing more.
As for you and 20x. I find that their are victims on both sides of the fence. And I understand. He’s a Mormon and he does not condone the actions that has put his own religion in question. I’m sure the POPE feels the same. Not everyone is who they present them selves. And I have found others who are not who they say they are and yet it shows though eventually.
As for them, their biggest mistake was not upholding the people’s trust.
The victims are the scars left in others eye’s and memories are things that cannot be washed away from an unforgiving generation. The victims are the true bearers of suffering, for they cannot put it away or hide from it. It is a daily struggle that solitude cannot mend.
I use to be happy, but my scars always haunts me. At times I feel as if it happened yesterday. I find that the good memories are not remembered, as painful ones are burned and long since scared into the back of my darkened soul.
Lessons of life.
As for the physical ones. Their tattoo’s of a time long since past, a reminders of surgeries to me and those who see that pain is never measured by what you see or imagine.
I hear, time heals all wounds. But the pain in my heart bleeds upon the alter of offerings.
Inolew
Time does indeed heal all wounds, but without help, it can heal them in a way that they are still destructive to the self. I do understand what you speak of. Do you have any support groups where you live where you can share your story and find others with like experiences to know that you aren’t alone? Or can you afford therapy? Or can you find a self-help book dealing with the subject of your pain? It helps to share your experiences, but not just with anyone; with someone trained in dealing with people who have been traumatized. You could talk to a friend, but the friend would be limited as to how much they could take on and what advice they could give. I gather that you are religious. You could talk with your pastor or priest, or whatever your spiritual leader is called, but often those men want you to simply leave your suffering in “god’s hands” and that doesn’t work in a practical sense.
I promise you, it is possible for the bad memories to be diminished, even if they are not completely forgotten, and the good memories can return, or be supplemented with new happy experiences. I have traveled this path myself. It is difficult, and you should not do it alone, but there is hope.
I wish you peace of mind and happiness in your life.
I could no more wind back the hands of time, no more than my healing.
And yes. I have a religion long sing gone, and a belief that’s not practiced in the
U.S. Seeking aid from another religion would certainly destroy who I am. I seen
what it did to my mother. It was so cruelly destructive.
My sister went mad and was taken away. She passed shortly after being confined.
They could not say anything. My family line was buried along with her.
So yes. I am truly alone.
I travel a path that’s away from the masses, for I cannot forget those days. I feel
safer being away from the cities.
I have sought council for what ails me, but to no process of healing. Unfortunately, they
were so caught off guard. That they were unable to relate, or give me any resolution.
My distant relatives live outside of the Amish communities. But unfortunately, their fathers
cannot council me. I would have to seek out my families history to find where
my true home is, but unfortunately. Their is no information anywhere in the cyber world
or in any of the historical records being kept in major cities. And as it goes, my distant
relatives say they do not have anything that would be of any use.
Their are no groups that support damaged souls.
Jaxt Woodcarvings
Having a road to continual web sites connected with this is optimum.