AMERICAN ATHEISTShttp://www.atheists.org ATTORNEY BRIAN BARNARD TONIGHT (FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 16, 2007) ON ALAN COLMES RADIO SHOW — AA UTAH CROSS LAWSUIT! Attorney Brian Barnard, representing American Atheists, will be the guest tonight (Friday, Nov. 16, 2007) on the nationally syndicated ALAN COLMES RADIO SHOW beginning at 9:00 PM MST — check local listings. Mr. Barnard, head of the Utah Legal Clinic, will be discussing the American Atheists lawsuit which seeks to remove enormous, unconstitutional Christian crosses which have been erected on Utah public land, ostensibly to honor fallen state troopers. A US District Court judge has promised to rule on the case shortly. The show can be heard on radio stations across America, and on the internet at http://www.alan.com/show/index.html . Also visit http://www.alan.com/index2.html for background and other information. WHO & WHAT: Brian Barnard, attorney for AMERICAN ATHEISTS on the Alan Colmes Radio program. WHEN: TONIGHT, Friday, 16, 2007 — 9:00 PM MST, check local listings. WHERE: Alan Colmes Radio Show, nationwide or on the internet at http://www.alan.com/show/index.html (AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)
Hey Alex…don’t forget to tell all of us, which church you’ve decided to attend on Sunday…hahaha…
Can’t wait to hear his excuses…
Phreedm,
Your bullshit posting on requesting land holdings from the king of England is not a “founding document.” It does not establish our nation as Christian in any way. However, our constitution does establish our nation as not Christian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Six_of_the_United_States_Constitution
Article Six of the U.S. Constitution reads:
The supreme law of the land is our Constitution and the document itself gives equal powers to all treaties made by our government. In essence treaties are established as an equivalent to the power of the Constitution itself.
Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli reads:
This treaty and the words in it have equal power to the U.S. Constitution, as written in the U.S. Constitution. Nothing you say can make this any less clear. Your argument holds no water. Go away.
phreedm
Alex need not attend any church on Sunday. You have not produced the goods. Nor can you.
Karen
I’m he gets that from his wife a lot.
What:
Now that was not nice… but it was funny!
You’re all cowards…drawing imaginary lines where you like to foster your myths…
The challenge was one founding document claiming a “xian” nation.
Accordiing to the US Library of Congress…the First Virginia Charter IS a founding document…and I’ll take their word over anyone on here…but then again…what do facts have to do with truth…
Now…since I’m so ignorant…someone please explain how you get one of our 5 rights from the writing of the First Amendment…
Freedom of the Press…it says no such thing…so how do we arrive at this conclusion….hmmm???
phreedum,
If you are right and we are all wrong then how come the USA has never been operated as a theocracy? If we were indeed founded as a xian nation then why are you the only one who seems to have figured this out? Why aren’t we all required by law to attend church, not work on Sunday, stone to death adulterers, or follow any of the other biblical laws? Why is it that a supposedly xian nation has never actually been governed as such? I’ll tell you why: becasue we were founded as a secular nation and our supreme law of the land, the Constitution, is explicit in making this fact very clear.
Wishful thinking on your part does not change history or politics, phreedum.
phreedm
A charter establishing land as an extension of the British Colonies is not a founding document of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It is a founding document — of a colony under British Sovereignty.
Great question Alex…
Being a christian nation is not the same as being a theocracy…
Take Turkey…it’s definately a Muslim nation…but it’s not a theocracy like Iran..
Why did every Muslim nation in the 1790’s view America as a christian nation…?
That’s what I’ve been saying all along: a nation of xians is not a xian nation.
So if you agree with me then what exactly is it that you are trying to argue?
Alex…is Turkey a muslim nation?
Nope, Turkey is a secular nation with a majority muslim population.
Comment from: alexatheist
See now…you can’t even be intellectually honest…
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/12-13-2002-32181.asp
http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/22833
Everyone else on the planet views Turkey as a muslim nation…but Alex doesn’t so I guess everyone else is wrong…
I’m still waiting for the history scholars to explain how we get the “Freedom of the Press” out of the First Amendment…
phreedum,
You are becoming increasingly patheitc as you grasp desperatley at straws to support your fantasy that the USA was founded as a xian nation.
I’m done.
Ah Alex…let’s stay on subject. You’re just sore because I proved you wrong…regardless of what your comrades say…
Not once but twice…and if you have the knowledge or courage to tell me how we get the freedom of the press out of the First Amendment it will be three times…
Phreedm,
Amendment 1 (www.usconstitution.com/amendments.htm)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
How can you not feel like an idiot for asking that question? I feel embarrassed for you…
No more than usual.
If you are willingly going to lie for Jesus, what would it matter to be an idiot for Him too?
That’s rather funny, coming from a creationist. You draw imaginary lines between species – this side is ape, the other side is man. We find another fossil and you just redraw the lines.
Regardless, there’s nothing imaginary that when we decided to revolt against the king we severed all agreements with him. That’s the sort of thing that revolution requires. We told him to piss off with his theocratic monarchy and we formed a secular nation.
I showed you how our Constitution gives supreme power to treaties and that the Treaty of Tripoli clearly defines our secular heritage. Again, your argument holds no water. Go away.
Comment from: Jatheist
No more then you for not following through…
But let me help you…
Is not a complete sentence…”or abridging”…who? or what?
AT…actually you’re a creationist also…
You believe in the big bang…you believe in something from nothing…
So…what’s the difference? All where one draws the line…
Are you serious? I mean, honestly, are you serious?
The difference is that one explanation is magical and is impossible to investigate and the other is natural and supported by decades of testable and reproducible scientific evidence.
Also, scientists do not beleive that the universe came from “nothing” as you state. Perhaps you should at least make an attempt to understand the basic principles of a scientific theory before offer criticism.
Someone isn’t taking his meds.
Once again dummy:
Is this a White Nation?
Is this a Man’s Nation?
FF’s were White Men, so…
And once again. The FF’s were Deists, not xtians. Most dispised xtianity.
Answer me dude. Are you so Arrogant and self righteous to believe this crap? Probably
So let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the U.S. is a ‘Christian Nation’. What would be the ramifications of this? Are atheists and people of other religions no longer allowed to protest using public space for Christian displays?
Kula,
So let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the U.S. is not a Nation of the christian. Would the Christian still be able to believe that myths are facts?
Actually, I do not accept the evidence for the “big bang.” I also don’t believe in it either. You’re trying to confuse the concepts of belief without any evidence whatsoever (and there’s a special word for that: “faith” of which I have none) and belief because all the evidence points that way.
I personally believe (with evidence) that there is no such thing as dark matter or an ether either (both of them are idiotic concepts invented by people like yourself when things don’t fit). Newton got things partially right. Einstein did a better job (and did away with the ether). Someone else will do an even better job and do away with “dark matter” and “dark energy.” There are a few scientists with theories that suggest that we don’t need dark matter or energy and that we’re simply doing the math wrong.
Science will always be better at explaining happenings in the universe than religion. Science accepts when the prevailing idea is wrong and adapts (many science textbooks are changed every year). Religion… well, you’re all still sitting around arguing about books written two millenia ago.
damn, did we scare off the guy again?
Hey Phreedom, let me help you…
Actually, then should be than.
Let me help you out some more…
I know the bold letters are confusing. They are actually used to empahsize parts of a complete sentence. You can still read the entire sentence even though it’s not emphasized.
Wow! I don’t think I’ve seen phreedm beaten up so badly.
Have you guys been holding back?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang
hmmmm . . . .
Poor phreedm… to him every new thread is a chance to display his ignorance for the world to see…
“Freedom of the press isn’t in the First Amendment” our boy phreedm says…
Mind-boggling ignorance…
Anyone see freedummy?
KatK,
I don’t mean to offend (we’re on the same team), but you misspelled (and bolded) ‘emphasize’ in a post where you berated phreedm for his own misspelling.
I love irony.
phreedm,
I’ve asked you several times to stop using the Equivocation fallacy. You can use the word “belief” to describe more than one concept, but that does not mean the two concepts are interchangeable.
Belief based on faith is not (and never will be) the same as belief based on evidence.
It was the Equivocation Fallacy the first time you did that, and it’s still the Equivocation Fallacy.
Furthermore, since when are Atheists required to believe in the Big Bang?
My personal feelings (which are common in the scientific community) are that there simply isn’t enough info to say anything for sure. All the various theories are just thought experiments with varying levels of credibility.
Until there’s enough evidence in any one direction, the best anyone can say is “we don’t know.”
I wish the Theists would figure that out.
i will fill in for phreedm.now i am not saying this is a christian nation but a deist nation inspired by the high moral teaching of the masonic order.blast away all you like but the founders did believe in a god and they had no intention of excluding belief in god from the public square.some states in the early days of the republic had state churchs and no one got worked up because this was seen as a state right. we are a federal republic not a centralized republic.
DeepDiver-
51 of the 55 men who signed the D.I.
were members of church that required as part of that membership public confession of faith in Jesus Christ.
That doesn’t seem to fit well with the the whole deist thing.
Hi guys, how ya been.
Hi Jack, its been awhile.
Where did you get this information?
I was registered as a protestant when I was a baby, but that does not mean anything. It is also well documented where many of the FF’s had no respect for xtianity.
So Jack, perhaps you can answer this: Is this a White Man’s nation?
Deep Diver
it should be a white mans nation.what the hell were we thinking to give the vote to women.
alatham – I realized the TYPO after submitting… I, too, love irony.
(Note, I corrected phreedy’s gramar, not spelling… and normally I wouldn’t be so catty, but he didn’t READ my husband’s post.)
I heard about the FFs when Greg Koukl and D’Nesh DaSouza were discussing it on a podcast a couple of weeks ago.
Church was a much more serious endeavor back then, there was nothing casual about it, you really needed to be commited to it in order to claim membership.
I don’t think I understand your white man’s country question. Do you mean who own’s america? Or who runs it, or who has the most advantages?
And now I’ve spelled grammar wrong!
I give up – if I wasn’t an atheist I would think karma was after me
Toad,
Educate yourself in regards to FF’s views on xtianinty. They were for the most part deists, not xtians!
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html