Happy Mythology day!Tomorrow is the only “American holiday” that has no relationship to Christianity, but DOES have a relationship to a different religion (Paganism). Those nasty pagan roots irk the fundies, so they protest, so now there are “Harvest festivals” around town, and Haloween is somehow evolving. OK.If we are going to adapt Haloween, I vote for “Myth Day”, so we can all dress up as our famous mythological character. Guess who I’m going as!See you at “The Holidays”!
Here in England Halloween gets less notice than in America. The English are also also less enthusiastic about religion. I think it’s interesting that *all* mythologies arouse little excitement here. Many have speculated on why this is so, including Dawkins, but no one seems to understand precisely why.
So I’m assuming we can expect Bellicose Bill to start frothing at the mouth about Christianity’s War on Halloween any minute now. Right? RIGHT?
Leave it to the fundies to spoil a perfectly good and innocent kid thing. Before I moved from Texas I had a friend who belonged to a church I personally felt was a cult. I’m not sure what they called their anti-Holloween gathering, but their kiddies did not dress up and trick or treat up and down the street. Instead, they dressed the kids as either angels or bibical characters (no other options)and gathered for games and worship at their church.
And while we’re kind of on the subject of goblins, witches and the like, does anybody know the truth about something that appeared in my local paper the other day regarding the Harry Potter books. A professor of “Faith and Culture” at a local Baptist college wrote this: “In an interview last week, Rowling finally admitted that her seven-book series is all about Christianity. It is about the power of dying for others and the power of resurrection. She said she could not say anything about it until the end, because anyone who knew it was all Christian could guess the ending for every book.”
Anybody know, did she really say this?
WOW…an admission that Halloween IS about a religion…!!! And by the “Communications Director of AA”…!!!
Only a blind person couldn’t see the hypocrisy of AA…
Now Dave…the fact that AA isn’t sueing schools to keep “religion” (Halloween) out of the classrooms PROVES the myth if false…
Nice job in being consistent…
Comment from: GodFree&Glad
Yeah…leave it to the “atheists” to spoil a perfectly good and innocent kid thing……Christmas…
Thy hypocrisy over this issue is amazing…
Was that a toddler tantrumming?
Well, I’m not sure she said the series was “all about Christianity,” but she did say there were Christian themes in the books, including resurrection.
I wonder how the good Baptist professor reacted, however, when Rowling further revealed that Albus Dumbledore, headmaster of Hogwarts and one of the most powerful wizards of all time, was gay.
Phreedm,
Could you explain the religious component people partake in on October 31st? What are they worshipping?
I’m guessing most of us know that Dec 25 is about the birth of Jesus for Christians and that is why Christians celebrate Dec 25.
Sorry Dave,
You got this one wrong. I wish that you were right about Halloween being a non-religious holiday….
November 1st is All Saints Day and the eve before, called All Hallows Eve (or Halloween), was celebrated by Xtians by the 4th century. Yes, there certainly are pagan (aka non-Xtian, not to be confused with modern pagans, Wiccans, goddess worshippers, etc.) origins to this holiday.
However all the “religious” holidays and celebrations have more pagan origins & traditions than anything biblical. In fact much of the Xtian tradition (understanding & interpretation of scripture, as well as extra-biblical revelation) is lifted wholesale from ancient (BCE & CE) myths. Look at the number of saints who are taken directly from mythical figures (think St. Christopher) to convert the heathen masses.
On a happier note, there are quite a few secular American holidays. President’s Day, MLK Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day & Columbus Day (aka American Invasion Day)!!
Oh, speaking of dressing up as mythical figures. My costume for the Halloween party of our local Atheist group was as Jesus. I also carried a sign saying “out of work, will do magic tricks for food.” Took wine, but no fish or bread
Happy newhallothanksmas?
I think they took alot of the christmas beliefs from the pagen religion also !!!
Geez, Phreedm, I didn’t know we spoiled Xmas. It’s kind of a big deal with a lot of us. We put up trees, decorate the house, bake cookies, bring family together and cook a turkey on the big day. We just don’t buy into the ‘Christ’ part of it.
If you’re referring to our objections about religious symbols on the courthouse lawn, then yeah, we think you could plant that crap on your church’s lawn, but you can wish me Merry Christmas all day long and it certainly won’t offend me.
AthLibrarian: Great costume idea! Did you curse a ficus tree or anything while you were at the party?
Jaydave,
I believe you’re right. Christmas was appropriated from the pagans by the Christians. Probably to make their religion seem that much more appealing.
The wreaths, the tree, the ornaments, and the feast were all pagan traditions (still are, I’d bet). The Christians just threw an angel on top of the tree and called it Jesus’ birthday.
I believe the same is true of Easter, that was a pagan fertility celebration first.
And Dave, AthLibrarian has already posted with a list of truly secular American holidays. But I think e missed the two biggest, New Year’s Day and Thanksgiving.
alatham,
Thanksgiving? Secular?? Think about it.
Those ignoramuses were thanking their version of gawd instead of the indians (Native Americans as the PC crowd now calls them – I have friends that are such and abhor the term “native” as they feel it has disparaging connotations) who were the actual rescuers at the time.
Happy Halloween everyone!
Now, I don’t believe in ghosts, but I am afraid of them…
So, I love Halloween, and Christmas is fun too… but they both only have cultural, celebratory meaning to me. I don’t think thats a bad thing, its just how holy-days evolve over time. They end up being “borrowed” by other religions, and even the non-religious.
If someone does see a religious significance to these days, great, for them. But I don’t think its asking too much to keep those personal-belief aspects out of our public schools and government property.
I suppose it we privately adapt Christmas into Xmas, its ok for someone else to adapt Halloween into Harvest Festivals (that’s what it is, after all). However, trying to clean up the dark and scary aspects is just silly, and won’t succeed. As an atheist, I have no problem recognizing a holiday for generosity and togetherness, but if some xtians can’t handle a holiday to celebrate the fearsome, they should just ignore it and let the rest of us enjoy it.
Now, now phred, I think it would be more fair to say xians ruined the solstice for the pagans.
I have no problems with xmas, other than when parents lie to their children about a fat man.
666,
Ugh, you’re right. Doing a little research backs you up.
Funny that I never heard that when I was little.
But then again, I was raised an Agnostic.
GodFree&Glad:
You should see the Hallowe’en episode of “Moral Orel” – Orel even dresses as “the 10 commandments” – and the scary things in the church’s ‘haunted house’ include (gasp) – an inter-racial marriage. AAAAAAAAAUGH
cjn
Jesus at a party.
Could be exciting. I don’t think beating the ficus tree would go over too well with the hosts.
Also, it would be a real turnoff if he managed to stand in the punch bowl to show how well his new sandals worked.
And that urn of grandpa’s ashes? Hopefully Jesus would be considerate enough to magic some clothes for him, as well. Just think how grandma’s new husband would feel when he got the news.
Then there’d be the concern that He might go all Armageddon on everybody’s ass.
All in all, I think I won’t be inviting Him into my house or my heart. In either case it could easily end up a disaster.
Or an infant deity for that matter.
Xmas and Halloween both have pagan roots and were appropriated by xians in order to convert pagans. They took the satyr, Pan, which was a deity for the pagans and turned him into Satan, horns and all.
Now, I don’t have a problem with xmas. What I do have a problem with is nativity scenes, schools indoctrinating children with “music” (which is really lyrical indoctrination propaganda, such as “Silent Night”), religious plays, etc. My problem with them is simple: they make it clear who the non-participants are and opens them up to be chastized by fellow students.
I’m cool with the xmas holiday, but leave your crosses, menorahs, and nativity propaganda at home. You have places for those things – your homes and your churches.
As far as halloween is concerned it is a secular holiday now. Few enough regard it as religious and nobody goes around trying to indoctrinate anyone on these days. I fail to see how carved pumpkins, plastic spiders, crappy fake cotton webs, and children dressed up as fictional characters and begging for candy is religious.
In fact, I think it helps reinforce that the characters are fictional. I think religious figures make fine costumes. Standing alongside Spiderman and whatever has replaced the Power Rangers this year your children should get a pretty good idea that all of it is fiction. Give them a bible as a prop. Dress up your children as preachers (or catholic priests, complete with a dummy little-boy bent over and glued to the front of the costume). Send them out to horrify your neighbors – they certainly scare me.
The school district where I work does not allow Halloween celebrations or passing out candy, etc. We are only permitted to celebrate Valentine’s Day and, yep, Christmas (secular Xmas, no songs about bloated infants in mangers and birthing virgins, parthenogenesis).
The Plano, Texas school district (PISD) was in a battle last year (I think) over the distribution of candy canes in December with Biblical messages (accept Jesus, Jesus died for you, the four spiritual laws, etc.).
I still ask my students about their Halloween costumes. One child (6 year old) who “is” a Jehovah’s Witness explained that Halloween was the Devil’s birthday and he was going to dress up as God. My teaching assistant and I had a good chuckle after school.
I qualify the “is a Jehovah’s Witness ” because children do not make a choice in this matter. The child happens to have parents who drag him to Kingdom Hall.
I wanna know what the kid is going to wear when he dresses up as god. There’s been a lot of confusion about exactly what god looks like so maybe the kid can clear this up for us.
TX…
It doesn’t matter what I think. The point is the Communications Director for AA clearly states that Halloween is a based on religion.
If they were true to their belief in the “myth” they would be sueing school districts to have the holiday removed.
Couple this with their silence on the Jewish Charter school in Florida and the Muslim public school in NYC, you begin to see a pattern. They are not claiming Sep of Church and State. They are claiming Sep of Christianity and State…
Today I reached 666 emails in my inbox and also I sat in traffic at mile 666 on my car….. ON HALLOWEEN!!! Do you think Satan is after me?????
-Kat (a daily lurker)
Who is suing the school district to have christmas removed? I’ve seriously never heard of this before.
Hi KatK–
Glad you’ve gone from lurker to participant! Welcome aboard!
Phreedm,
Your point is taken but the planets and calender months are religious too. My point was that hardly no one goes to a service to worship a god over halloween. You ask 99% of the people and they would agree. You ask christians if Christmas is tied to religion and they say yes.
I do wonder if any atheists here would object to have a public school play in late December that was centered around the idea of Sol Invictus? I bet it’s next to zero that would care but the Christians would not be happy. Respectfully I hope you see the difference. I am not Dave but if you think I support Judaism or Islam you’re nuts
>Tomorrow is the only “American >holiday” that has no relationship >to Christianity, but DOES have a >relationship to a different >religion (Paganism).
Independence Day, Labor Day, Memorial Day, and New Year’s Day do not seem to have a Christian connection to me. Did I miss something?
phreedm,
AA has a limited budget for legal action. Why shouldn’t they go after the biggest bully on the playground?
Pha,
Here is the story on Xmas and the Plano Independent School District…I think this is still an ongoing saga…
In one of the schools I worked at, the principal allowed a group of missionaries to present via Powerpoint and songs their “trip to India” where they went to spread the gospel of Jeebus. Yes, it is completely illegal but who is doing the complaining? I would have lost my job…
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,141839,00.html
Comment from: pha
You’re kidding…
Here’s a fun nativity scene I came across when I googled lawsuits with school districts to have xmas removed.
http://amboytimes.typepad.com/the_amboy_times/2006/12/aclu_nativity_s.html
Barbiebrains
Oh yeah. I can imagine how pleased he’ll be when his kid comes home with the pencil and pad with the note explaining the Solstice. After all, it’s just a cultural exchange and we want to include everybody, right? I’m sure he’ll be glad to learn a chant and wear the headdress for around the Yule log, too. Of course it’s fine if the teacher hands out dreidels, too. And if some enlightened kid wants to share that Jesus couldn’t have been born in December, that’s kosher.
Karen,
I think the best solution would be to present Xmas in ALL its diversity…from Chamula Indian rituals to other practices that are self-described as “Christian” and even “Catholic”…Latin American “Catholic” which is a whole ‘nother animal…It would put the Bible-gropers in a tizzy as they infight over which practices are “Christian” and which are “Pagan”. I love Chrisitan in-fighting…cracks me up…What the heck is “pure Christianity” anyway????
Comment from: alatham
Not so…they have plenty of lawyers who’d sue pro bono…you can’t tell me the cross on a water tower in Florida was chosen because they were the “big” bully…
But regardless, can you point to one interview where Ellen denouced Halloween being celebrated within the public schools?
Can you provide one press release from AA claiming that Halloween is a violation of the “myth”…???
That in itself speaks volumes…
Well, speak of the christian and he appears! Now you want AA to protect everyone from what used to be a pagan ritual.
Yes sir , right away sir.
town car suspension parts…
Recently, the air ride suspension system in my 1990 Lincoln Town Car went out at the same time there… Oh, the wonderful air bag idea. These were a Major problem! There should be no link to your two……