ELLEN JOHNSON ON HARRIS, “ATHEIST CLEANSING,”MORE THIS WEEK ON ANSWERS-IN-ATHEISM INTERNET RADIOThursday, October 11, 2007 ~ 7:00 PM ET ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists, will be the guest on this week’s live call-in broadcast from the new answersinatheism.net radio program. Hosted by attorney, Freethought activist and writer Edwin Kagin, answersinatheism.net is a new outreach to counter religious obfuscation, distortion and obscurantism. The show is archived and can be accessed at http://www.answersinatheism.net . Ms. Johnson will be talking about efforts to “cleanse” Atheists and Atheism from public discourse, and a recent proposal by Mr. Sam Harris that we avoid the use of the “A-word” (Atheism), and even terms like Humanist, Freethinker or Rationalist. Harris made this suggestion at a recent Atheist gathering. Check out the exchange of views between Sam Harris and Ellen Johnson at http://humaniststudies.org/enews/ . So, be sure to tune-in this Thursday, October 11, 7:00 PM ET You can call in with your questions and opinions at 859-384-7000. There may be a toll-free number installed by air time, so visit http://www.answersinatheism.net . WHO & WHAT: Ellen Johnson, President of American Atheists discussing “Atheist Cleansing,” the “A-word” and Atheist Activism. WHERE: Answers-in-Atheism internet radio at http://www.answersinatheism.net . WHEN: This Thursday, October 11, 7:00 PM — check your time zone. MORE INFO: http://www.answersinatheism.net American Atheists is a nationwide movement which defends the civil rights of nonbelievers, works for the separation of church and state, and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.
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Sounds good, but it’s very difficult to listen to their broadcasts because of the low production quality. They tend to have a lot of background noise, like squeaking chairs and various bumping sounds. They also move away from the microphone for extended periods while not raising their voices to compensate, not to mention loudly brushing up against the microphone sometimes. I understand it’s a new podcast, so there are going to be problems, but I haven’t really noticed any improvement in the quality since the first episode. I just think they need to focus on making it more enjoyable for the listener before bringing in guests like Ellen. That’s just my opinion, though.
Well it’s obvious Dave will show AA’s democratic roots by not posting a thread about Obama’s religious rant yesterday…what hypocrisy…I can only imagine how upset he’d be if a republican had called for the Kingdom…
And for more hypocrisy…
Since everyone supports the soldier who “supposedly” was stopped from having an atheist meeting in Iraq, I’m sure you will all support these court employees…but I won’t hold my breath…
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071003-9999-7m3bible.html
“The Spirit of God is in all of us, just waiting to be released”.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/10/08/obama.church.cnn
I know most of you would like to stick with atheist label and I deeply respect the arguments for doing so. It would be nice, however, to see if we, or at least I, could do better when it comes to a unifying descriptor of that which binds us.
A term that defines what we are rather than what we are not may be very beneficial in the fight against the irrationality which includes, among other, the assertions of theists. Theism is just stupidity and saying that we are not stupid is not saying much.
Also, folks like myself think that the question “Are there Gawds?” is just a bad question because the predicate is not defined in a real sense nor does the verb make sense when the theist argues that Gawds stand apart from universe.
The word atheist is, to date, the best descriptor of the group to which I identify in response to a very stupid question. Unfortunately there are way too many humans that doubly delude themselves into think that the question has meaning and that they have the answer.
What….I here what your saying…
I would also add that Atheism is a logical conclusion based on our own experiences….and one day just maybe…we may call ourselves humans…without any descriptors such as sex and race…let alone dumb ideas like religion….a mind on the spine …
I am optimistic that these dumb ideas will fade with the information age and of the passing of generations…
how old is Phreedumb anyways?
I saw the story about Obama and just rolled my eyes. He is pandering for votes from the religious.
I look forward to hearing what Ellen has to say. Tell her we are cheering on the other end of the air waves. Janet
Off topic
Another Republican caught in a gay restroom sex scandal!!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21140546/
Bwhahahaha!
More off topic,
I as in a Walmart and a Macys with the Christmas stuff out already.
Septos,
Target has Halloween and Xmas seasonal items out both right now side by side. Ah, capitalism!
I imagine O’Reilly will be whining about the fake “war on xmas” soon.
Septos -
You need to check out Michael’s (craft type store) – they had their Xmas stuff on display and for sale back on Aug 1!
What,
so it seems that the temporary shitstorm I had is turning into a lifestyle. I’ve been working hard to grow the business and it seems like I’m getting more calls and more work, which is good, but I’m struggling to keep it all together. It certainly has been a test of my mettle to be doing this. So enough about my sorry ass, I just wanted to explain why I haven’t gotten back to you and why my answers have been, and will likely continue to be truncated…
You asked me the question a while ago if it’s a viable question if there are gods. You bring it up again here and thought it might be a good time to revisit it. I think, and please correct me if I’m wrong, but the question goes to apriori, does god (or gods) exist outside the bounds of the universe and its laws? I answered that it was a viable question. With that, I don’t think I was on target with your question. Can you help me along with this discussion? Perhaps a little clarification. Like my grandfather used to say “I’m so poor, I can’t even pay attention”
Rhetoric, to me, is the discussion of degree and kind. When I discuss with other theists, we discuss degree. When I discuss with atheists, we discuss kind, which is what I think is at the heart of what you are asking. I’m wondering if you can help me clarify the question of kind you’re asking. Again, I may or may not be able to get back to you on this thread, so I appreciate your patience.
Sounds like a fart to me.
spanders
glad business is good.
phreedm
i want a president who believes in the constitution who loves it.when people say they want a christian president what does that mean because one mans christian is anothers heretic.
Spanders
Hey there. Sounds like a welcome shit storm though. I hope you have a good slicker and hat.
Well I guess a place to start would be with the recognition that some questions are valid and some are not. There are many examples. Perhaps we could discuss a few and then contemplate what the ingredients of a valid question are.
Here are two examples of bad questions that you and others here may be aware of. (1) What are the simultaneous momentum and position of a particle X? (2) What are the frequency and time at which a sine wave signal X occurs?
There are many other such questions that are simply invalid in the context of the theories that best describe them.
So given these examples, as a starter, what might you say determines the validity of a question?
Great link by Phreedm there. I love it, the lawsuit was filed because the court denied the bible study group permission to meet in an empty courtroom during their lunch hour.
The plantifs say, it’s not about the money. It’s about having a place to hold a bible study group.
Last line of the article, for the time being the group is meeting at Barlow’s (plaintiff’s) small private office at the courthouse.
AT THE COURTHOUSE!
What
See, I think this is where you lose me. I’m not very good at science. I’m more of a history, art and literature guy. Can you take it down to my level? I don’t think I understand either example, which I think says more about me than you.
OK here’s one. What is the least distance you would have to walk before you fall off planet earth?
I tell you the jesusandmo comic strip is
genius in action. It is one of the most consistently funny strips I have ever read. Another good one today.
http://www.jesusandmo.net/
Thanks to suttsteve for feedback on the radio show. We are working on these technical problems now and hope to be smoother when Ellen is on. As the song says, We’ve only just begun. None of us has done this before.
Thanks to suttsteve for feedback on the radio show. We are working on these technical problems now and hope to be smoother when Ellen is on. As the song says, We’ve only just begun. None of us has done this before.
So…I’ve recently reconnected with an old friend who is an Atheist and in trying to explore(just explore-not denounce) his ideology- I was so immediately turned off to the hate being spewed about religion, God etc. I am agnostic, and completely agree with the seperation of church and state, but aren’t we all faulted human beings trying to extract the most meaning out of our own lives? I personally don’t participate in organized religion but I don’t feel disgust towards those that do. Please tell me this isn’t a universal code of living for Atheists-to hate all that does not reflect yourself?
tol
So … Do you think leaving the basis of alliances between delusional people unchallenged is a good thing to do? How much ignorance and what type should go unchallenged?
toleranceseeker
There is no universal code of living for atheists. The only thing we all definitely have in common is a lack of belief in any god(s). So the reaction you get about religion will vary from one atheist to another. Sometimes our frustration with the actions and policies and hypocrisy of religion are mislabeled as hatred for it instead. There are some of us who do hate religion, others who are more tolerant. But we don’t hate god, because you can’t hate something unless it is real.
Challenging and degrading are very different tactics. Centuries of conditioning will not be undone with righteous name calling. Crimes committed within religious organizations are just as infuriating to me as crimes committed within disfunctional households. I don’t need religion attached to determine the hypocrisy, delusion, ignorance or hate involved-there is danger in many mind sets and life styles-but it’s the absolutism of any mindset that is the most dangerous-and the most unchallenging-how boring to know all of our convictions and never shift or move depending on what life presents us.
toleranceseeker
I don’t know about you, but I am constantly shifting and moving in reference to what life presents. So far, it has upheld my convictions. But should it ever give me evidence and reason to change them,I will.
toleranceseeker,
Spare me the bleeding heart kumbayah crap. Intolerance of religion is an agent of change motivated by justifiable anger. Perhaps you are content having your private life and rights trampled on by the religious in this country but I refuse to live that way which is why I confront religion at every opportunity. As a gay man it is even more important to me than to those of you who are straight. I proudly wear the label of “angry atheist” because it is accurate.
Me too. Thanks for being like a fresh drink of water.
Is this why you remain an agnostic- because you fear the absolutism of the decision?
Tell me, which god(s) do you believe in? If the answer is none, you’re an atheist.
alexatheist
I understand your anger-My best friend in the world is gay (as are many of my friends), and it is appalling how much influence religious (financially robust)institutions are having over the development of laws permitting gay marriage etc. My question to you is: Do the religions that oppose homosexuality (not all of them do) have a constant effect on your inner peace? Are you proactively trying to change things?
I think I do fear the absolutism of the decision-given that there is no proof that God exists. I ENJOY my sprituality-its about MY connection with nature, people, and trying to make small differences where I can (helping children etc). I am deeply fascinated by the psychology of human beings, and while I am tolerant of others beliefs, I am not a pacifist. I believe in people’s rights to live their life as they please as long as they are not hurting others.
tolerance,
When you wrote this
,I felt compelled to respond since it is not a reflection of agnosticism (to which you claim to adhere).
The concept that we are all faulted human beings is derived straight from religion.
Of course some deviations/mutations of DNA result in aberrations which may result in “flaws”(mental and physical are possible)but, that’s not the premise behind proclaming humanity as flawed.
We may not all have the same education, or physical strength, etc. – these are not categorically flaws.
Degrading yourself (let alone all of humanity) doesn’t accomplish anything.
It accomplishes relationships-understanding-connectivity. Those are channels by which change can occur. I’m not degrading myself or humanity by asserting that we are flawed- if we were perfectly developed we would know for certain the answers to all things. Are you trying to file my opinions alongside a collective thinking process?
toleranceseeker,
You are not flawed, that would suggest that you were created and something went wrong during the creation. You simply haven’t acquired a perfect education and you don’t have a perfect memory.
I find it interesting that you choose to look for tolerance on an atheist blog instead of a christian blog. The christians are the ones that are attempting to have the United States re-branded as a christian nation. Christians are the ones that are trying to force everyone to recognize their god-idea as valid and not delusional and destructive even when the evidence points to christianity as in fact being delusional and destructive.
Non-christians have tried being polite and kind, as a result the christians have proclaimed that Atheists don’t exist.
Yeah, christians suck and I really have lost my tolerance for them. And why not, they would like to see the destruction of the planet that I love.
tol,
Wish you would elaborate a little. When you use the word “It” in this
,are you referring to self-degradation? WTF? Since that was the only sentence in which I used the word “accomplish”, I can only surmise that’s the case.
If so, I think you may need help.
Every day that I am denied the same equality as other Americans my inner peace and dignity are assaulted. I work very hard through my gay and atheist activism and through living my life openly as a gay atheist to bring about change. When it comes to intolerance of religion I am ruthless and often call people to be held accountable for their irrationality. Change won’t happen just becasue we want it to, we must work hard for it.
I don’t think all Christians are tolerant, which is why I’m on an Atheist blog…I’m learning quickly this is the case here as well…
666-not self-degradation-humility. Admitting that I don’t know everything so therefore I’m OPEN to hearing your point of view. I’m not ashamed to need help if I need it. What’s that about?
toleranceseeker,
That, seem to me, to be a very hollow comment. It gives no reasoning and it provides no answers.
What’s so damn great about tolerance anyway? Should we tolerate crime? homophobia? religious intrusion into our private lives? Please answer why you think we should be tolerant of religion and what it makes otherwise intelligent and compassionate people do?
toleranceseeker,
I’ve never understood this agnostic crap. Do you believe, or don’t you? “I don’t know” or “Maybe.” doesn’t cut it. If you question that the magic guy is up there sprawled on a cloud (or whatever it is can’t decide whether you believe in or not), then you don’t believe! Face it.
And yeah, we get a little carried away here at times, but this is OUR blog. It’s kinda like family where you might talk less politely about somebody not present in a different way than if they were there. Except trolls, of course, if they come spewing their righteous xian belief here they are apt to get stomped on.
And pha.
Wouldn’t you think there are enough churches around that nobody would need to hold a bible study class in a courthouse? There would be ONE courthouse in town and how many churches? My guess is this is just another foot they’re trying to get in the door–and succeeding for the moment.
If “tolerance” means silence, then you can count me OUT! I believe in respecting humans for their inherent value, but that does not mean that I need to “love”, walk on eggshells, or kowtow to any human being’s delusional beliefs.
There’s such a thing as TOO much tolerance, and TOO much tolerance is part of the problem.
So in other words, elitist, holier than thou, annoyingly selective and hypocritical agnostics who take the slightest criticism of religion as “hate spewing” and “intolerant” are part of the problem.
Said agnostics kissing the asses and doing everything in their part to appear tolerant in front of the oh so victimized religionsists, is exactly why “intolerant, hate spewing, fundamentalist” atheist communities like this exist in the first place.
Tolerance
Plain and simple … I have no tolerance for ignorance whether its mine or others. If you insist upon tolerating the religious majority then be aware that it will most likely be to your minority’s peril.
I love you guys. Seriously.
Whoops. Somehow my first sentence was lost which should have read:
“To those that have responded to Tolerance’s post .”
Whoa! What a long road ahead of us!
Believe me-you’ll never find me kissing anyone’s ass. Too much tolerance is OBVIOUSLY not a good thing- I didn’t know I had to get elementary with self professed intellectuals.
I’m off to the open road-I can’t TOLERATE the narrowness and judement of this blog.
Shoot; I had to leave for a while.
I guess toleranceseeker was looking for fuzzy-wuzzies and feel-good bunny clouds. Sorry to tell you TS, but you don’t always get that in reality, which is what atheists deal in. If you can’t handle hard answers to your questions, you probably should go looking elsewhere.
Don’t know where you got the “self-professed intellectuals” bit or the idea that we think we know everything. Fact is, we know that we don’t know everything.
Good luck in your search for tolerance. I think you’ll find it’s spread pretty evenly, and thinly, and consistently across the board. Some folks’ll be more tolerant of one issue over another, but they all have their hot spots.
toleranceseeker,
Bye-bye!
So, people, what’s up with agnostics? My husband labels himself an agnostic, we have many spirited discussions about belief, agnosticism and atheism, and we never resolve anything. He just sticks to his guns that no one can know absolutely for sure about gods or an afterlife, so that calling oneself an atheist is just as ridiculous as being a believer. There is absolutely, positively no religious component at all to his life, and I think that for all intents and purposes he is an atheist. He won’t buy it. Of course, no one can know, absolutely, that there is nothing supernatural out there. If it could be proven, I’d be the first one to sign up. You know that’s never going to happen, and I’ve never been tempted for an instant to call myself an agnostic over something so unreasonable and absurd. Seems to me, you either believe or you don’t believe.
EXACTLY! The idea that Tolerance (with a capital “T”) should triumph over reason is why we have a problem with illeagle immigrants in this country and why we can’t have an honest discussion about race or israel. The dogma of Tolerance is ruining this country and it places “feelings” above truth.
Hasta la vista, baby! and safe journey.
When you decide that maybe we are onto something with our disdain for tolerance of religion then please come back. To be honest, the noncommital attitude of agnostics has always struck me as cowardice so I hope you toughen up and are able to join us in our certainty that god is bunk.
Tarma
My husband claimed agnosticism too, but wouldn’t talk about it. And he labeled me militant for even wanting to discuss it. I’m with you, either you believe or you don’t. That’s what I tried to point out to tolerance when I asked him/her which god(s) s/he believed in.
With my husband, he was more willing to talk about atheism, agnosticism and religion, etc, in the years before his sister became a Methodist minister. Maybe he became soft in deference to her delusional lifestyle.