WASHINGTON (AP) – Several Jewish organizations criticized John McCain on Monday after the Republican candidate said he would prefer a Christian president over someone of a different faith. In an interview with Beliefnet, a multi-denominational Web site that covers religion and spirituality, the White House hopeful was asked if a Muslim candidate could be a good president. “I just have to say in all candor that since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles … personally, I prefer someone who I know who has a solid grounding in my faith,” McCain said. “But that doesn’t mean that I’m sure that someone who is Muslim would not make a good president.” Later, McCain said, “I would vote for a Muslim if he or she was the candidate best able to lead the country and defend our political values.” He added that “the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-6963010,00.htmlOK Let me make this clear. McCain is a liar. The heritage of this nation is not a matter of opinion, it’s fact. The government is secular (and the world is round), and anyone who says differently is either lying or wrong. I don’t believe McCain is wrong. I think he knows that what he is saying is wrong. He is lying — to the direct detriment of secular people — in order to look good to the Right Wing.Remember that!
McCain is still alive?
When will these dumb ideas just fade away….
and how old is Phreedumb?
McCain
WRONG. There is only one christian principle: love the christian god with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself.
That principle does not appear in any of this nation’s founding documents.
Rusty,
You forgot to mention “Push your political agendas by pandering to the religious”.
Or is that something that only politicians do?
This is unrelated, but apparently Christen conservatives are considering a new party.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071001/ap_po/conservatives_third_party;_ylt=AgmvumMUtrybEuaHSQNC87Ws0NUE
James Madison’s notes taken during his tenure as a delegate to the constitutional convention are compiled in Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 (1987, Prometheus Books, edited by Gaillard Hunt and James Brown Scott) are dry reading, to be sure, but if you diligently trudge through it a certain conclusion becomes inevitable.
The straight-forward words of the delegates during their convention and deliberations, as scrupulously and assiduously recorded and transcribed by Madison, monumentally stand as their affirmation that they explicitly understood the nature of the task before them: to define, constitutionally, the what, when, where, who, how, and why that this new nation was to be, and that this work was no mere academic stage show, but was rather a do-or-perish juncture of human progress. To them, something completely different was demanded if the newly independent states were to escape a premature demise. They knew that a national government was the only viable option. Precisely how this government was to be structured and implemented was the job they set their hand to.
From the beginning, one mandate was crystal clear: it had to be the people’s national government; a national government of, for, and by the people. On this question, “God” had little, if any, regard in their deliberations, motions, resolutions, or intent. The debates of 1787 were about the American people and the forging of their constitution. They were not about God or The Holy Bible. No part of the Bible was referred to in any of their speeches or written motions except in a very passing manner on very few occasions. Certainly not one single article of the constitution they collectively authored and signed has as its origin any words that are referenced to any biblical citation. Not one!
Senator John McCain — Panderer in Cheap.
I wish Hillary would stop pandering to the Right with all of her god talk and admit that she’s a nonbeliever.
I’m going through “The Great Upheaval: America and the Birth of the Modern World 1788-1800″. It’s a fascinating study of the systemic nature of the birth of a nation. It focuses on world politics of the time and how it is very much interrelated. To say that this nation is based on Christian values is a misunderstanding of how this nation came into being and the competing schools of thought at the tiime.
Off topic and perhaps suited for another thread, but it would be interesting to discuss the role of the monks in Myanmar and how their religious affiliation made this protest viable and how this protest compares to previous student lead protests.
Alex
Hillary won’t stop pandering. You can’t get elected without selling the snake oil in this country.
Celebrant Prince
You should read the Federalist Papers too, if you haven’t already. There’s almost nothing about religion at all. Madison is mostly concerned with factions grabbing too much power in the government and special interests taking over. I wish more people would read this stuff, so they can sift through the bs that guys like McCain shovel out.
pha,
Is Madison the one that thought, in order to keep special interest from gaining a stranglehold on gov’t., EVERYONE could lobby congress?
Well, sort of. Madison was especially concerned with the tyranny of the majority in a democratic state. He wanted to ensure that minority groups, including religious groups (or atheists), but mostly people who didn’t have enough wealth to take on the majority were protected and their liberty was secured. He thought that forming a Republic, with a broader range of representatives would solve this problem because the large size would mean the majority couldn’t form a cohesive faction and oppress the minorities.
From stillhorn’s link
We could only hope.
cry4turtles,
We could pray!
Bwaahahahahahaha
Got to keep the myth alive…eh Dave?
After all, you don’t want to lose your own personal gravy train…
But we’ve been through this over and over again…
Why is the Christian bible used within our courts?
Why were Christian services held within the walls of the Supreme Court and the walls of Congress up until the middle of the 1800′s?
One can twist the words of the Fouding Fathers to meet their own personl agenda, but it doesn’t change the historical events that occured…
As for being founded upon Christian principles…
Quoting someone from above…Love the Lord God with all of your heart, with all of your strength and with all of your mind…Love your neighbor as yourself…
This is exactly the principle our FF’s used in designing our Government…
Placing the people’s interest (neighbors) above their own…it would have been so easy to simply make Washington a king, but they didn’t…their sole purpose was to establish a nation where their (neighbors) were free…and at GREAT personal sacrifice…(there is no greater Love then to lay down one’s life for a brother)…
http://www.keelynet.com/4th99.htm
Yeah….Christian principles had nothing to do with the founding of the greatest nation this planet has ever seen…
Even a blind man can see the Truth…
Well I knew Phreedm was going to have a post I just had it on the wrong blog.10/1/07
Any minute now Phreedm is going to post and anyone like to bet on what his post will say.Let me have a go!!
This is a Xtian nation founded by Xtians.
The Treaty of Tripoli was a bad translation.
This is one nation under God,(his God) and if you don’t like it leave.
The separation of church and state is
false.
We have majority rule,so Xtianity rules.
Add nauseam,like a broken record!!!
Because of irrational, antiquated tradition.
Fact is one doesn’t have to swear on a bible anymore. Fortunately,this:
is not dependent upon xtianity!
BTW, “free” doesn’t mean “as long as you believe the same way I do”.
Just to refresh your memory:
From the Treaty of Tripoli (which was written in English and ratified by the entire Senate at the time, 1797).
Oooh, phred posted an urban legend!
When you get suckered for god, you can get suckered for anything, huh?
You are a true fool indeed.
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp
Stillhorn,
I saw that article and wondered by xtians don’t just go away and make their own nation where they can make their bible-based laws like “don’t travel overseas or you’ll fall off the edge of the earth.”
Boy-O-Boy, it is going to be interesting watching the RR in the next few months. They are really between that rock and the hard place. Neither Brownback nor Huckabee have an ice cube’s chance in hell of getting the nomination; Giuliani is leading the pack and his real feelings on the “A” word are known even if he says different now; Romney is religious, but my gawd, he’s a mormon for christ’s sake!; Thompson says he is a xian but he only goes to church when he goes to see his mama; and well, there is McCain and he at least says this is a nation founded on Xian values, but what to do, what to do, what to do? Such a pity Dubya can’t run a 3rd time . . .
And yeah, I think Hillary has to mouth it regardless, but I’m guessing she probably really is xian. At least when her husband was president he understood the separation of church and state so I would expect the same of her. Regardless, this country needs to move away from the Republicans since they might be more correctly called the Religious Party these days.
I hope they make another party.
When the other party splits, we win.
This is common McCain double talk, he says that it is a christian nation(to make the xtians happy), then later says he would vote for a mulsim candidate IF they were qualified(to sound reasonable, and secular). He does this double talk on everything. He directs his comments to different interests at the same time. He hopes that you will remember what you agreed with and dismiss the things you don’t. It assumes we are chumps.
Comment from: 666
Talk about an irrational answer…?
I believe you’d get the red pen over this one…or perhaps purple if you attend a PC school…
However, even in your answer, you’ve revealed Truth…
Something only becomes a “tradition” after it’s been a common social event…meaning…it was common practice to involve religion with politics…
So…feel free to twist FF’s words or take a sentence from a treaty out of context…you have just proven my point…
Comment from: GodFree&Glad
Hmmm…wrong. No wonder you don’t understand early American History…you can’t even get history right from 10 years ago…
http://www.people.com.cn/english/features/clinton/clinton1.html
Yep…the myth is alive and well…haha…a prayer meeting in the Oval Office…? Yeah…he understood the myth…
So who is the more dangerous…
A politician who tells you he doesn’t believe in the myth and prays or mentions God in public…
or a politician who tells you he supports the myth, but prays in government buildings anyway..
Seem’s to me…you’re being lied to…
But what else is new….just read the opening thread…
One finds some amazing things on youtube or other video sites. Here is a video of a marine putting his faith to work during a battle. Sorry about the title given to this one, undoubtedly by some wingnut chickenhawk who would never get near a fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3sAhXXSRrA&mode=related&search=
If the marine survived, maybe he will later ask why his lord put him in the position in the first place and why his lord made other people shoot at him.
I feel for the guy, it must be a terrifying situation.
bernarda,
What a bunch of pussies. Not for hiding under the table durring indirect fire, that’s the smart thing to do. No, they are pussies for whimpering and crying out to jeebus.
Instead of calling out to a nonexistant entity to stop the shelling, maybe they should write a letter to a nonfunctional entity (congress) and demand that THEY stop the shelling. Oh wait, if they did that, they might be labled ‘Phony’ by Mr. Hillbilly Heroin, himself.
*Bring the troops home now.
*Impeach and try all war criminals.
*Pay reparations to Iraq for destroying their country.
I don’t feel sorry for him. Haven’t you heard; we have an ALL VOLUNTEER Army.
Pray a little louder, dumbass. Jeebus can’t hear you for all the mortar rounds going off.
phreedm reveals his ignorance again… so sad… yet so predictable…
he has no understanding of history or law…
just emotion in his rants… no facts…
oh, and urban legends…
emphasis on the word “was”. I’ll point out that this word indicates past tense. This has the connotation that enlightened folks (by using rational thought) are abandoning antiquated, irrational traditions.
We(whoops, maybe you still do) no longer live in the Dark Ages.
I’m guessing they didn’t offer reading comprehension skills at this kid’s school.
are we electing a president or a preacher.i want my president to know and love the constitution.i want a president who will be president for black&white,rich&poor,believer&nonbeliever.like the old saying united we stand divided we fall.