http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-11-amendment_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip
Most Americans believe the nation’s founders wrote Christianity into the Constitution, and people are less likely to say freedom to worship covers religious groups they consider extreme, a poll out today finds.The survey measuring attitudes toward freedom of religion, speech and the press found that 55% believe erroneously that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation. In the survey, which is conducted annually by the First Amendment Center, a non-partisan educational group, three out of four people who identify themselves as evangelical or Republican believe that the Constitution establishes a Christian nation. About half of Democrats and independents do.
Later in this article, Gene Policinski laments that its a result of year of not teaching the First Amendment in school. He’s right, but incomplete.Our kids say the Pledge of Allegaince and sing the National Anthem, but they are completely ignorant about WHY this country is great. The reason is simple: The Separation of Church and State.C/S assures all people are equal, no matter what they think about gods. That’s important! Any deviation from absolute separation is a reduction in religious freedom, since some people will inherently have more rights than others, based simply on thought.The solution is simple: Include the Treaty of Tripoli in the schools, and educate the children on it’s intent.
Imanidiot,
Of course i was talking about paul!
That still doesn’t change the fact that there was no xtian church for jc to love at the time. Therefore a meaningless statement. Please take the time to dig the shit out of your cranial cavity.
whew! it looks like I’m on the cusp of emerging from one of the busiest times I’ve had. It’s good to be busy, but it might be bad to be that busy. I hope you all are well.
The thing that confuses me is that often the people who think the government is bad and screws everything up are often times the same people who argue that government should reinforce religion or that government is somehow founded on religious ideas. Our president will often argue that the government cannot do anything as well as the private sector. With that in mind, why would we look to an inefficient and bumbling government to have responsibility over something as personal as religious belief. When religion mixes with government, both get corrupted. Keep them distinct.
I went to a private christian school for 12 years. My parents paid extra for it. It was a good school and I made a lot of good friends that I still have to this day. The people who were there were truly commited to the idea. If we were not allowed to attend private christian schools, I could see the complaint. If you want your children to be brought up in a religious environment, bring them to church and/or send them to a religious school. You have the choice. As soon as you start instituting prayer in schools, you are now fostering the establishment of a church and infringing on the rights of those who do not share the same beliefs. Is it me, or is this obvious?
alatham;
“Jesus died for the church and Paul’s words are just speaking about a church that, while it didn’t exist during Jesus’ lifetime”
That was the point! You didn’t get that?
How is he dying for a non-existant (AT THT TIME) church?
Whoops.
(AT THE TIME)
spanders
It’s obvious to anyone who doesn’t have a Christian agenda. Those people couldn’t see it if it sat on them and hit them with a huge wet fart.
Spanders,
What these religious people don’t understand is that the wall between church and state is the best thing that coiuld ever happen to the church. Back in Europe we have state churches which you are automatically a memeber of at birth and must pay taxes to support. We all know how well the Church of England is doing in the UK where the majority are atheists and only 3% of the population attend church.
The tearing down of the wall here in the USA over the last six and a half years or so has been the best thing for secualrism as evidenced by the backlash and “New Atheism” movement. People don’t want other people’s dogma forced onto them and when it happens there is a revolt.
666,
Disclaimer, I believe it unlikely that Jesus even existed, but for the sake of this post I’ll assume he did.
I can’t really say what’s going on here, not having the Bible memorized.
You seem to be saying that Jesus couldn’t have died for a church that didn’t exist during his lifetime.
And imforgvn is arguing that Jesus died for a church that came into existence as soon as he died.
So, in essence, Jesus was dying for the church so that it could come into existence.
After all, the whole religion falls apart if Jesus didn’t martyr himself so that it could get started.
alatham,
Sounds too much like fucking in order to produce virgins.
Let’s put on our christian caps and look at it their way.
Jesus, (if he even existed, OOPS, my cap slipped already!)was not just himself, but also god and the holy ghosty, not to mention his very own daddy.
He was also the embodiment of the church itself.
He loved it-or himself-so much, he died for it-or himself.
We are toldhe died to save us from our sins. Now, alternately, he died from loving himself too much.
Now, husbands should love their wives like christ loved himself–er, the church. So they should DIE.
And wives, should be submissive to their husbands and help them all they can.
See, that’s what that pastor’s wife did last year. She helped her husband be a loving-as-Jesus-husband by shooting him to death.
All clear now?
There is no god, so you’re wrong.
For a good chuckle – see jesusandmo.net
Yes an indeed! That was an excellent jesusandmo strip.
666,
Yes it does. It’s a silly argument, but I wish imforgvn would have been lucid enough to actually defend his statements instead of needing an Atheist to do it for him.
imforgvn
Flatland, is I think, my favourite book of all time. Good for you for finding and reading it.
But don’t assume others have not been there before you.
conservative christianty will survive because it offers a modest lifestyle.no substance abuse,gambling,sex outside of marriage hard to achieve but it is a lifestyle that appeals to many who want a quiet space in their life from this hectic modern world we live in.
It is very difficult not to resort to ridicule when theists seem not to be able to see anything unless it be through their God-Filter.
Here is Carl Sagan’s video about flatland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIadtFJYWhw
I guess if one doesn’t understand something, it must be god.
Amazing how im4 always has somewhere else to be when he gets in over his head.
More generally, we can’t imagine how the absence of Article 11 in the Arabic version effects the separationist argument. It was the English version of the treaty that was approved by President Adams and Secretary Pickering, and this version unquestionably contained Article 11. Similarly, when the Senate ratified the treaty, they did so knowing full well that the English version declared that the United States was not a Christian nation.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/bush/misquote1.htm
Hey, maybe its a fake Frank Walton coming onto a blog as a person who changes their name from frank Walton to the Real Frank Walton, knowing that it would change all his posts, to make Frank Walton look bad!
. . . . . my head hurts